Joe's Garage

[Joe's Garage]

Rules of the Road -
Please Read: The Lounge
Notice to all: No political threads/No exceptions.

Joe's Garage: A place where car nuts go to have a beer and shoot the chit about anything but cars.
Please read the "Rules of the Road" above if you haven't already.

Anyone ever wonder if "your life" happened to occur during a time period considered to be the best that "mankind" will ever achieve? The doom & gloom scenarios for making it to 2100 are piling up; Climate Change, the Middle East/Russia-China-North Korea Nuclear Threat, Biological Weapons (Terrorists), New Bacteria/Pandemic with no cure etc.

From where I sit, it's a real crap-shoot to get through this next century without one of those threats altering the course of mankind drastically, if not extinction. I should make it to ~2045 God willing, I may be thinking then, lucky me, I'm checking out of this hotel headed for hell just in time.

What about you?

[indianamoon]

Well, I could expound on all sorts of doom and gloom scenarios, but all I can think about re 2045 is, I probably won't be able to drive the Cobra after dark by then.

[Joe's Garage]

My question has more to do with where we're headed as a people on this planet. Notwithstanding the oppressed & impoverished, are successful nations at the height of prosperity before an apocalyptic reset? This gets back to the global threats mentioned earlier and need to be addressed if we are going to make it to 2100. What kind of challenges do you think your great-grandchildren will have in making it to the next century? I think right now, we may have it as easy as it will ever get.

[bliss]

This isn't a subject that can realistically be discussed here without citing the political implications that more or less create the global threats.

This thread should be closed.

[Blue66]

Originally Posted by bliss

This isn't a subject that can realistically be discussed here without citing the political implications that more or less create the global threats.

This thread should be closed.

X2 !!!!

[Joe's Garage]

I believe Jamo's direction on politics applies to Democrats and Republicans, otherwise religion would have certainly been at the top of the list. Note that in the Lounge guidelines "religion, moral and ethical issues are ok". My question was asked more in that vein - where you think mankind is headed?

Anyone ever wonder if "your life" happened to occur during a time period considered to be the best that "mankind" will ever achieve?
What kind of challenges do you think your great-grandchildren will have in making it to the next century? ... right now, we may have it as easy as it will ever get.

I'll leave my thread starter open, I'm curious to see how some might see the future for our great grand-children. That's not to say you can't bring up your own topic here, it's open to shoot the chit about anything but cars. If you have a philosophical view on something and want to bounce it off others, this is the place.

I personally think Global Warming/Climate Change will be the number one challenge for future generations getting to 2100. It seems that man doesn't get around to fixing things until it gets uncomfortable. I heard a story on CNN where temperatures in the Persian Gulf will be at 140 deg. F before the century is out, considered uninhabitable. Last week the most powerful Hurricane ever recorded hit Mexico, weather in the US over the last decade has wreaked havoc; floods, drought, new temperature extremes etc.

[bliss]

There has been no “global warming” since January 1997.

This is clearly shown by the most reliable global temperature dataset – the RSS satellite records – and was even grudgingly acknowledged in the most recent Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Assessment report. While still insisting that there has been a slight warming – an increase, since 1998, of around 0.05 degrees C per decade – the IPCC had in all honesty to admit that this is smaller than the 0.1 degrees C error range for thermometer readings, and consequently statistically insignificant.

But if there has been no “global warming” for nearly 19 years how can alarmist proselytizers like Joe (Joe's Garage) possibly hope to convince an increasingly skeptical public that this apparently non-existent problem yet remains the most pressing concern of our age?

[Joe's Garage]

We all have our views and opinions, there are others that would disagree. This is not Joe the "alarmist proselytizer" trying to convince an increasingly skeptical public, this is Joe believing what he has seen and read contrary to your point of view, and data from NASA supporting that point of view. No question the topic of Global Warming/Climate Change has a divided audience, I hope others comment with their position on it.

[bliss]

So, what is it that you want to do about the Weather?

By the way, we will be 20,000,000,000,000.00 ($20 Trillion) in debt by January 2017 with additional national budget deficits projected well into the next decade.

Cap and trade would, in effect, significantly increase service (energy) and product costs for all Americans, especially the poor. Paying reparations to third world countries - in the hundreds of billions would add to our deficit and debt.

Why not simply do what we are doing now - steadily move toward energy independence (drill, baby drill) and off of dependence on fossil fuel?

Here's how you can help - your portion of the projected debt will be around $200,000 - send it in!

[Joe's Garage]

bliss, do you have kids? ...

Anyone ever wonder if "your life" happened to occur during a time period considered to be the best that "mankind" will ever achieve? (meaning lifestyle and comfort)

What kind of challenges do you think your great-grandchildren will have in making it to the next century?

Those were the questions I asked.

Sounds like the national debt is the Big One for you, if so how would you tackle that problem? I agree it's a serious problem, but I don't put it above Global Warming/Climate Change.

Because I believe Global Warming/Climate Change is the Big One to watch, then obviously we need to get a handle on carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gasses before things get much worse. Yes, the US is taking steps toward clean energy, but if China is not on-board then we're still in trouble. I think the US needs to move faster, and China needs to make it a national priority IMHO.

Small changes in climate have a big impact on the balance of nature. The Polar Bear has been thriving on the polar ice cap for 600,000 years, now it's on the endangered species list because the polar ice cap is getting too small. All because of this ...

[Tim7139]

Originally Posted by bliss

There has been no “global warming” since January 1997.

This is clearly shown by the most reliable global temperature dataset – the RSS satellite records – and was even grudgingly acknowledged in the most recent Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Assessment report. While still insisting that there has been a slight warming – an increase, since 1998, of around 0.05 degrees C per decade – the IPCC had in all honesty to admit that this is smaller than the 0.1 degrees C error range for thermometer readings, and consequently statistically insignificant.

But if there has been no “global warming” for nearly 19 years how can alarmist proselytizers like Joe (Joe's Garage) possibly hope to convince an increasingly skeptical public that this apparently non-existent problem yet remains the most pressing concern of our age?

As long as you decided to drop this, you'd be well advised to learn a hell of a lot more about how that IPCC report gets constructed.
There are multiple independant studies and detailed analysis on a wide strata of topics all related to climate.
What you refer to is the widely publicized " summary report" which is exactly what it sounds like, a summation in abbreviated form for folks without the time or will to chop through the detailed data.
Interesting point #1..... Nowhere in any of the individual reports in the most recent effort make ANY of the fairly aggressive assumptions the IPCC does which, by the way, is pushing hard for unified treaty agreement.( don't need a treaty without a crises).
Interesting point #2....... Leading he summation charge, for instance, are the noted luminaries from the University of Nigeria.( I **** you not).
Interesting point #3...... Many on the IPCC panel represent 3rd world countries instituting legal actions in the world court against developed nations such as, say, the USA ( there's a surprise) for damages resulting from...........wait for it............ Global climate agression, because apparantly, we don't give them enough $ to steal, defraud, or otherwise squander, while their citizens starve.

[Joe's Garage]

I guess it will always come down to what one decides to believe or not believe. NASA and NOAA have no reason to "manufacture data" toward some nefarious end unless one believes it's all part of a larger conspiracy backed by the US gov.
http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

BTW, those same whistle blowers back in the '80s reported out on Ozone depletion over the Antarctic. The result was a global mandate under the 1987 Montreal protocol to stop using ozone-depleting substances such as those found in spray cans and refrigerators - which were banned all over the world effective 1989. Similar to Global Warming/Climate Change, different man-made byproducts, same urgency to resolve.

[Tim7139]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

I guess it will always come down to what one decides to believe or not believe. NASA and NOAA have no reason to "manufacture data" toward some nefarious end unless one believes it's all part of a larger conspiracy backed by the US gov.
http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

BTW, those same whistle blowers back in the '80s reported out on Ozone depletion over the Antarctic. The result was a global mandate under the 1987 Montreal protocol to stop using ozone-depleting substances such as those found in spray cans and refrigerators - which were banned all over the world effective 1989. Similar to Global Warming/Climate Change, different man-made byproducts, same urgency to resolve.

You mean the gapeing hole in the ozone layer that healed itself?
There is rich scientific data in conflict with current scientific mindset. Start by researching how most scientists, particularly those at the college level, get grants.
Read a few pieces by world renowned Prof. Lindzen of MIT....not exactly a slouch on the topic.

As an aside, given the unfortunate data about no increase in temps. for , now, 18 1/2 years, NOAA has recently changed a lot of it's data points on historic sea temps. without telling anybody how ,exactly, and why they did that. Now subject to a federal subpoena apparently they've stated they will not honour.......surprise.

[joyridin']

Originally Posted by Tim7139

You mean the gapeing hole in the ozone layer that healed itself?
There is rich scientific data in conflict with current scientific mindset. Start by researching how most scientists, particularly those at the college level, get grants.
Read a few pieces by world renowned Prof. Lindzen of MIT....not exactly a slouch on the topic.

Yes, and then we can research how many of those naysayers work for large corporations that are spewing most of the crap causing the so called "global warming" scenario.

[Tim7139]

Originally Posted by joyridin'

Yes, and then we can research how many of those naysayers work for large corporations that are spewing most of the crap causing the so called "global warming" scenario.

Well, except for the last 18 1/2 years,you mean.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by Tim7139

You mean the gapeing hole in the ozone layer that healed itself? ...

I really hope you don't believe that. Pretty tough to argue with satellite data yielding the imagery here -
World of Change: Antarctic Ozone Hole : Feature Articles

Click the buttons at the bottom of the image corresponding to the years from 1979 to 2015. Records show the hole rapidly grew in size and depth until the mid-1990s, since then the area and depth have roughly stabilized.

"The global recognition of CFCs’ destructive potential led to the 1989 Montreal Protocol banning the production of ozone-depleting chemicals. Scientists estimate that about 80 percent of the chlorine (and bromine, which has a similar ozone-depleting effect) in the stratosphere over Antarctica today is from human, not natural, sources. Models suggest that the concentration of chlorine and other ozone-depleting substances in the stratosphere will not return to pre-1980 levels until the middle decades of this century. These same models predict that the Antarctic ozone layer will recover around 2040. On the other hand, because of the impact of greenhouse gas warming, the ozone layer over the tropics and mid-southern latitudes may not recover for more than a century, and perhaps not ever."

[bliss]

[joyridin']

Originally Posted by Tim7139

Well, except for the last 18 1/2 years,you mean.

No, I mean last week.

[Joe's Garage]

bliss, keep politics out of it - that's a LOUNGE rule.

This is why I say by ~2045 when my clock has just about run out I might be thinking, lucky me, I'm checking out of this hotel headed for hell just in time.

A divided audience and lack of consensus means nothing of consequence will probably get done until our quality of life takes a hit and felt by a wider population.

[bliss]

"Climate science has grown diamond-hard. When scientists are not tweaking data to reach more-desirable results, they are shaming and expelling dissenters. Climate scientists like Shukla have turned their research into lucrative Gambino-style operations, while scientists in remote fields have realized that by putting “climate change” in their grant proposals (“What impact will climate change have on the sperm count of three-legged African hedgehogs?”), they can pull in more-generous government sums. Pursuing hypotheses that question the prevailing consensus has become nearly impossible."

It's all about the money - always follow the money!