Joe's Garage

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

CAUSE. ..


EFFECT. ..

It's just that simple.

[Tim7139]

.2 degree increase in 18 1/2 years, which resulted in about 97% of scientists being about 97% wrong about 97% of the time.
So Joe, the next time your squeezing out a methane saturated steamer in your depends, answer us how can that be???
No photos please.

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by Tim7139

.2 degree increase in 18 1/2 years, which resulted in about 97% of scientists being about 97% wrong about 97% of the time.
So Joe, the next time your squeezing out a methane saturated steamer in your depends, answer us how can that be???
No photos please.

Some resources below - worth reading for those with an open mind. For climate change deniers - don't bother, all the science in the world is not going to convince you.

2 1/2 year old article, but as valid today as it was when it was released: The Overwhelming Odds Of Climate Change - Overthinking It - Scientific American Blog Network

Interesting look at predictions of global energy usage and the sources:
https://www.skepticalscience.com/TRTTDRCP26.html

...most of us, whether scientists, policy makers or citizens, are suffering from cognitive dissonance. We acknowledge the mathematics of carbon budgets compatible with the 2°C target, yet are unable to face the revolutionary implications of what we need to do to get there. Put simply, our entire way of life for most of us in rich countries—and for an increasing number of rich people in poor countries—has to change radically, starting now.
Source: https://www.skepticalscience.com/Anderson.html

Exxon funded climate denial misinformation campaign
While Exxon’s own scientists and research were 100% aligned with the expert consensus on human-caused global warming, the company simultaneously funded a campaign to manufacture doubt about that scientific consensus.

A new study published in the Proceedings of the National Academies of Science found that groups with funding from corporations like Exxon have been particularly effective at polarizing and misinforming the public on climate change. Since 1998, Exxon has given over $31 million to organizations and individuals blocking solutions to climate change and spreading misinformation to the public.
Source: https://www.skepticalscience.com/two...cientists.html

Still awake? Interested in learning more?
Start here: https://skepticalscience.com/Welcome...l-Science.html
History of climate science: https://www.skepticalscience.com/his...e-science.html
The big picture: https://www.skepticalscience.com/big-picture.html

[Joe's Garage]

Brian, good post. You will find no amount of logic or basic reasoning will change Tim's mind. The irony in all this is that these same scientists gave us the data on HFC's in aerosol cans destroying the ozone and the WORLD banned their use to stop the ozone damage. It will take 100 years before the ozone gets back to approximate pre-80's levels. Now we're really in it deep with CO2 emissions and the Tim's of the world just don't get it?

Maybe the deniers should start a salt water aquarium to learn how a closed loop environmental system works. They would see first hand that if you screw with the salinity in the ppm's or change temperature a few degrees it will quickly make the aquarium uninhabitable killing the fish in the tank.

Fortunately, there are enough people who do get it and when things get a little more ugly there will be ample support to take drastic measures. The penalty will be paid by our great grandchildren dealing with the ramifications of a late start on this because guys like Tim are incapable of weeding out the BS fom the facts, to them it's all a big conspiracy backed by the gov to put money in the pockets of climate change benefactors

[cycleguy55]

“At the time of Kyoto, if someone talked about climate change, they were talking about something that was abstract in the future,” said Marcia McNutt, the former U.S. Geological Survey director who was picked to run the National Academies of Sciences. “Now, we’re talking about changing climate, something that’s happening now. You can point to event after event that is happening in the here and now that is a direct result of changing climate.”

“I am quite stunned by how much the Earth has changed since 1997,” Princeton University’s Bill Anderegg said in an email. “In many cases (e.g. Arctic sea ice loss, forest die-off due to drought), the speed of climate change is proceeding even faster than we thought it would two decades ago.”

Eighteen years ago, the discussion was far more about average temperatures, not the freakish extremes. Now, scientists and others realize it is in the more frequent extremes that people are truly experiencing climate change.

Witness the “large downpours, floods, mudslides, the deeper and longer droughts, rising sea levels from the melting ice, forest fires,” former Vice President Al Gore, who helped negotiate the 1997 agreement, told The Associated Press. “There’s a long list of events that people can see and feel viscerally right now. Every night on the television news is like a nature hike through the Book of Revelation.”

Studies have shown that man-made climate change contributed in a number of recent weather disasters. Among those that climate scientists highlight as most significant: the 2003 European heat wave that killed 70,000 people in the deadliest such disaster in a century; Hurricane Sandy, worsened by sea level rise, which caused more than $67 billion in damage and claimed 159 lives; the 2010 Russian heat wave that left more than 55,000 dead; the drought still gripping California; and Typhoon Haiyan, which killed more than 6,000 in the Philippines in 2013.

There's more, lots more, at From Kyoto to Paris: How the world’s climate has changed in 18 years - National | Globalnews.ca

[Tim7139]

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

“At the time of Kyoto, if someone talked about climate change, they were talking about something that was abstract in the future,” said Marcia McNutt, the former U.S. Geological Survey director who was picked to run the National Academies of Sciences. “Now, we’re talking about changing climate, something that’s happening now. You can point to event after event that is happening in the here and now that is a direct result of changing climate.”

“I am quite stunned by how much the Earth has changed since 1997,” Princeton University’s Bill Anderegg said in an email. “In many cases (e.g. Arctic sea ice loss, forest die-off due to drought), the speed of climate change is proceeding even faster than we thought it would two decades ago.”

Eighteen years ago, the discussion was far more about average temperatures, not the freakish extremes. Now, scientists and others realize it is in the more frequent extremes that people are truly experiencing climate change.

Witness the “large downpours, floods, mudslides, the deeper and longer droughts, rising sea levels from the melting ice, forest fires,” former Vice President Al Gore, who helped negotiate the 1997 agreement, told The Associated Press. “There’s a long list of events that people can see and feel viscerally right now. Every night on the television news is like a nature hike through the Book of Revelation.”

Studies have shown that man-made climate change contributed in a number of recent weather disasters. Among those that climate scientists highlight as most significant: the 2003 European heat wave that killed 70,000 people in the deadliest such disaster in a century; Hurricane Sandy, worsened by sea level rise, which caused more than $67 billion in damage and claimed 159 lives; the 2010 Russian heat wave that left more than 55,000 dead; the drought still gripping California; and Typhoon Haiyan, which killed more than 6,000 in the Philippines in 2013.

There's more, lots more, at From Kyoto to Paris: How the world’s climate has changed in 18 years - National | Globalnews.ca

Really??? You're going to quote Al Gore?? Who's next Kermit the frog?
Yet another" studies have shown" series of bull..it factoids.
You want some facts? Read the major piece in Sat. WSJ that was co authored by a member of the IPCC. It covers a wealth of information on, for instance, the reliance on less than accurate modeling, how many embellish the most aggressive predictions rather than the most probable, the utter lack of accuracy on model based formulations, and the fact that AGAINST MANY IPCC SCIENTISTS, their recent publication was based more on politics not science.
It was real confidence inspiring.
It also posed the interesting question , yet unanswered, as to why, on several occaisions, the planet was warmer over the last 10,000 years with far less Co2.

[cycleguy55]

How prophetic: [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpiIWMWWVco[/ame]

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by Tim7139

You want some facts? Read the major piece in Sat. WSJ that was co authored by a member of the IPCC. It covers a wealth of information on, for instance, the reliance on less than accurate modeling, how many embellish the most aggressive predictions rather than the most probable, the utter lack of accuracy on model based formulations, and the fact that AGAINST MANY IPCC SCIENTISTS, their recent publication was based more on politics not science.

The WSJ piece was actually opinion - and stated as such.

However, claims that the IPCC does not accurately represent the views and findings of the scientists, on whose work the IPCC reports are based, are not supported by the facts.

https://www.skepticalscience.com/Hul...-consensus.htm

[Joe's Garage]

Bringing the information and evidence doesn't mean it will be read, in this case I think I see the problem.

[bliss]

Home - Climate Hustle

Overview

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Climate Hustle will reveal the history of climate scares, examine the science on both sides of the debate, dig into the politics and media hype surrounding the issue, show how global warming has become a new religion for alarmists, and explain the impacts the warming agenda will have on people in America and around the world.

[Tim7139]

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

The WSJ piece was actually opinion - and stated as such.

However, claims that the IPCC does not accurately represent the views and findings of the scientists, on whose work the IPCC reports are based, are not supported by the facts.

https://www.skepticalscience.com/Hul...-consensus.htm

I'm trying to be patient, and I'll try and translate this from English to Canadian. Yes, it is an op Ed piece........from a guy that sits ON THE IPCC.

By the way, he national news coverage has been great today, especially covering an overriding theme of the G20 conference, a global need for the wealthy industrial countries (USA) to fund the poor 3rd world countries efforts to become green......or loosely translated, sending them billions so corrupt 3rd world officials can line their pockets.......again.

Please copy the yoopers from Saskatoon.

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

Bringing the information and evidence doesn't mean it will be read, in this case I think I see the problem.

I was thinking more like this:

[Joe's Garage]

The conspiracy is growing Tim -

Some 150 world leaders from U.S. President Barack Obama to Prime Minister Enele Sopoaga of Tuvalu gathered in Paris on Monday to open a summit meant to
secure the world's most ambitious pact on climate change.
HIGHLIGHTS-World leaders open Paris climate change talks | Reuters

Forget the USA, how do you explain the other 149 world leaders on board with taking Climate Change action? Oh, I know - it's a global conspiracy now

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

The conspiracy is growing Tim -

Some 150 world leaders from U.S. President Barack Obama to Prime Minister Enele Sopoaga of Tuvalu gathered in Paris on Monday to open a summit meant to secure the world's most ambitious pact on climate change.
HIGHLIGHTS-World leaders open Paris climate change talks | Reuters

Forget the USA, how do you explain the other 149 world leaders on board with taking Climate Change action? Oh, I know - it's a global conspiracy now

Global conspiracy or otherwise, politicians are usually loathe to spend time and money on issues that won't further their first goal - to get re-elected.

Given the overwhelming support this issue is getting by global leaders, it is obvious they're convinced by the science supporting the issue of global climate change - and dismissive of the outliers preaching dissent and denial of same.

[cycleguy55]

“This is certainly the most exciting thing I’ve worked on,” Aziz says, “because the implications are so global. The greatest challenge facing humanity this century —I’m convinced — is finding the energy to power a civilization of 10 billion people without unacceptable consequences to the environment. Renewable energy is front and center in that challenge, and this could really be a very significant enabler of renewable energy.”

While the cost of renewable energy sources (e.g. solar, wind, tidal) have been dropping, in some cases quite markedly (e.g. solar), one of the key issues has been the variability and/or unpredictability of it. That, of course, has required near instantaneous sources of power generated via other means which must be online or near-online (e.g. natural gas turbines).

Flow batteries, OTOH, could store renewable energy in tanks limited only by the size and number of such tank farms. Further, the energy stored in the tanks could be measured and metered in a predictable fashion, allowing better prediction and significant extension of the 'window' to bring traditional sources of power online.

Still perhaps a few years from commercial availability, but nonetheless a promising technology. A breakthrough may make the mega flow battery commercially viable in the near future | Public Radio International

[Tim7139]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

The conspiracy is growing Tim -

Some 150 world leaders from U.S. President Barack Obama to Prime Minister Enele Sopoaga of Tuvalu gathered in Paris on Monday to open a summit meant to
secure the world's most ambitious pact on climate change.
HIGHLIGHTS-World leaders open Paris climate change talks | Reuters

Forget the USA, how do you explain the other 149 world leaders on board with taking Climate Change action? Oh, I know - it's a global conspiracy now

While I understand the difficulty in finding a picture to explain this, The majority of those "global leaders", such as the illustrious PM of "fill in the blank" are there for handouts, $, reparations for "climate aggression" from the biggest fool on the planet, your very own climate warrior, which is why when he gets home after his embarrassing performance, anything promised......goes absolutely NOWHERE.

[Tim7139]

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

“This is certainly the most exciting thing I’ve worked on,” Aziz says, “because the implications are so global. The greatest challenge facing humanity this century —I’m convinced — is finding the energy to power a civilization of 10 billion people without unacceptable consequences to the environment. Renewable energy is front and center in that challenge, and this could really be a very significant enabler of renewable energy.”

While the cost of renewable energy sources (e.g. solar, wind, tidal) have been dropping, in some cases quite markedly (e.g. solar), one of the key issues has been the variability and/or unpredictability of it. That, of course, has required near instantaneous sources of power generated via other means which must be online or near-online (e.g. natural gas turbines).

Flow batteries, OTOH, could store renewable energy in tanks limited only by the size and number of such tank farms. Further, the energy stored in the tanks could be measured and metered in a predictable fashion, allowing better prediction and significant extension of the 'window' to bring traditional sources of power online.

Still perhaps a few years from commercial availability, but nonetheless a promising technology. A breakthrough may make the mega flow battery commercially viable in the near future | Public Radio International

And the point is, it hasn't been found, not even close, so like it or not fossil fuels dominate until you and your troll buddy are gone.....producing methane......contributing to global warming.

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by Tim7139

And the point is, it hasn't been found, not even close, so like it or not fossil fuels dominate until you and your troll buddy are gone.....producing methane......contributing to global warming.

As pointed out in the linked article, had you bothered to read it: "...it will take about three years to develop commercial systems ready for scale." That's 3, not 30 or 300 - so really not that far away though, to be fair, it's still an estimate, not a guarantee.

There is no doubt fossil fuels will dominate for years, though lower cost renewable energy sources, carbon taxes and technologies such as flow batteries will accelerate the transition away from fossil fuels. The question is not if, but when.

The global transition to clean, renewable energy and away from nuclear and fossils is well under way, with remarkable developments happening every day. The Great Transition by Lester Brown, Janet Larsen, Matt Roney and Emily Adams lays out a tremendous range of these developments – here are seven that may surprise you: 7 Surprising Realities Behind the Transition to Renewable Energy | Alternet

[Joe's Garage]

Brian, a lot of new energy tech on the horizon, I'm watching Compact Fusion development which will really move this planet into a new era of energy independence - the break-through game changer of all time if it comes to fruition.

Compact Fusion · Lockheed Martin

Tim, thanks for doing your part in preventing your own methane from entering the earth's atmosphere

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

Brian, a lot of new energy tech on the horizon, I'm watching Compact Fusion development which will really move this planet into a new era of energy independence - the break-through game changer of all time if it comes to fruition.

Compact Fusion · Lockheed Martin

Tim, thanks for doing your part in preventing your own methane from entering the earth's atmosphere

Researchers have been chasing the elusive fusion reactor energy source for a long time - I wish them well!