Gun Control

[Ron61]

One hand gun against 3 guys with assault rifles?

I grew up with guns, taught gun classes, served in the military, and own guns and will continue to carry mine. If you want to know what good a hand gun would do against assault rifles, a lot more good than jumping up and crying that I don't believe in the right to have a gun or to defend yourself. I am not going to argue this point, but where do you think they get the assault rifles. I can go out here any day with money and buy any type of gun off the black market. The last big shooting we had here where 10 were killed was done by guns that dopers had stolen or gotten from the black market. I would much rather take my chances against assault rifles with a hand gun than nothing at all. They plan to kill you anyway so what do you have to lose.

Ron

[Tenrocca]

There are hundreds of articles and hard statistics debunking the self-defense myth:

Heres just one:
"....there were 8,342 criminal firearm homicides by private citizens (non-law enforcement members) in 2012 — as opposed to 259 justifiable homicides (self defense)"

That is 32 murders per 1 justifiable homicide with a gun. One could possible argue that if those 32 murdered had a gun they may not have been murdered. Given that 32% of Americans own a gun, that argument still would not explain the differential between murders and self defence.

The problem isnt that you have a gun Ron, the problem is that crazies also have guns. Telling the crazies from the decent folk is pretty tough, and one can become the other overnight.

More irrefutable evidence (to ignore):



Who would have thought...more guns = more death by guns.

Gotta love that outlier Hawaii though. Must be the sunshine making everyone happy.

[Ron61]

Actually I am not arguing your points per sae. We refused to issue permits to many who took the gun classes because of their attitudes. They then just went to another place and either got them or sued and the courts awarded them the right. But our constitution gives us the right to bear arms and this country came into being by armed rebels as the British referred to them. Also I live in a rather bad area which has one of the worst dope problems in the country and instead of doing anything about it they prefer to cover it up so as to not scare away any tourists. Stabbings of innocent people by dopers stealing stuff is so common they don't even make the news any more.

As for your statement that self defense is over stated, try telling that to the people who are alive and their families are alive today because they had a gun and shot back. This is not meant to be argumentative as I agree that a lot of people have guns legally that should not have them, but you just lump every gun owner into that category and it isn't true. And the statistics that you can quote I can find more to dispute as whoever posts those does so to suit their own agenda. The gun owners do so and so do the anti gun people. So don't take this as an attack on you personally as it is not meant to be. I just have certain rights and you or no one else has the right to impose your ideas on the rest of us as we don't tell you that you have to have a gun.

Ron

[Chaplin]

Originally Posted by Tenrocca

Here you must be a primary producer, be a registered member of a sporting shooting club or require a firearm as part of your work (certain areas of security in addition to the obvious ones like police). These are what I consider legitimate reasons to hold a firearm licence.

Personal or home security is not considered a legitimate reason.

So, it is ok to own a gun to shoot clay pigeons, but NOT to protect your life and the lives of your loved ones? And THAT is OK with you? Sorry, but that is insane. There is no more fundamental human right than the right to self-defense. If Australians have given that up, then they have surrendered a large piece of their freedom and personal liberty. Thank God for our Bill of Rights.

Here is a good read on the efficacy (or lack thereof) of gun control laws in various countries including your own Down Under. IMO, this article puts its finger on the root cause of the issue.

The Facts That Neither Side Wants To Admit About Gun Control

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by Tenrocca

:

Unless you have customs or border control between states that have tougher gun laws and those that don't, this is a ridiculous argument.

We don't even have border control between our neighboring countries. Mexican cartels would love to add profitable business of running guns across the border to criminals, to their other product lines. Canadian border - less controversial but mostly unguarded except for established crossings.

We have guns because of our Constitution and our will (at least originally) to have freedom and to protect those freedoms. Having freedom wasn't ever promised to exist without negatives and the occassion of persons who would abuse it. There is a cost associated with it. The 2nd amendment is not only a part of our Constitution, but it's part of the original Bill of Rights and that doubles down on those guarantees. Anyone who tries to mess with the Bill of Rights is taking a step towards destroying our country from within IMO.

And yes, gun owners interpretation of the 2nd amendment has been upheld by the courts. So unless you forsee a constitutional amendment being passed, it ain't happening. And there is no widespread public support for any such attempt. And how anyone thinks the 400 - 500 million firearms in existance in the US (or whatever the no) are going to go away due to any Government action is what is supposed to be a Democratic Republic is nutty. Anyone with a nicely equipped machine shop can manufacture a gun - they have been doing it in the caves of Afghanistan, Pakistan, India and many other countries for decades and decades. I won't even mention 3D printers since those attempts have been pretty crude so far.

Most of our shootings deal with three things - inner-city ghetto/gang violence, terroist attacks and mentally ill people running around on the loose because liberals insist on mainstreaming them. Deal with the root cause of these 3 issues and it will make an impact.

[KirkV]

So lets just say for ****s and giggles that the USA enacts a turn in your gun policy. So now all gun owners turn in their weapons, well except the illegal owners and criminals who have ground off the serial numbers on their stolen guns.

Now no legal law abiding citizen has a weapon but there are still millions of hidden guns that the criminals have to use against the law abiding citizen who can try to defend themselves with bow and arrow, hammers etc.

Even if the cops bust and collect every gun they can it would take a hundred years to collect the weapons that the criminals never turned in. Besides the guns that the black market would bring into the country for them to buy.

I just can't see it stopping what is happening in the mass murder shootings by somebody who is off their rocker for whatever reason?

It just won't work!

[kanuck]

I said you annoyed me with this thread and that I was going to buy a Glock out of spite, I changed my mind this is what I got instead. Ain't she a beauty.



Here are here two older brothers.



PS: The Business end. Now i can send 150gr, 250gr, and 350gr bullets all over 2000 FPS what a great country.

[bjretired]

Aren't AK47's all ready on the Ca. gun control list? They got them on the black market or smuggled them in, just like they can do in Ausseland. Their home was full of homemade bombs. This would have happened with or without your gun control. I'll keep my guns thank you.......

[bjretired]

Originally Posted by kanuck

I said you annoyed me with this thread and that I was going to buy a Glock out of spite, I changed my mind this is what I got instead. Ain't she a beauty.



Here are here two older brothers.



PS: The Business end. Now i can send 150gr, 250gr, and 350gr bullets all over 2000 FPS what a great country.

Nice collection. Our Sheriff say's get a gun, get a carry permit because he doesn't have the man power to protect you.

[bkozlow]

Just remember if it weren't for us gun toting Americans you would be writing in Japanese!

[kanuck]

"Nice collection"

You have no Idea I could have bought a FF5 kit for the same price as my Barrett 50 BMG.





"Our Sheriff say's get a gun, get a carry permit because he doesn't have the man power to protect you"

Good advise from a Smart Man

Dean

[kanuck]

Originally Posted by bkozlow

Just remember if it weren't for us gun toting Americans you would be writing in Japanese!

"That is because there is a rifle behind every blade of grass"

Admiral Yamamoto

Dean

[Large Arbor]

Tenrocca,

No disrepect intended, but your views have been tainted by liberal press. Read this link and educate yourself.

Gun-Free Zone Don't Save Lives -- Right to Carry Laws Do | National Review Online

PHIL

[DanEC]

And now Merry old England is contemplating some sort of ban on certain knives in response to an increasing murder rate. What next - baseball bats, canes, box cutters?

Recently a young girl with some sort of issue or disorder purposely ran down a bunch of people in a gathering in Oklahoma with her car, killing I believe 3 and severly injuring I don't know how many. She was so intent on it that she backed up and rammed forward into the crowd and obstacles a couple times. Given how crowded our cities are becoming, a car or truck is an ideal weapon to use to mow down a bunch of innocent people at once. So, I guess our cars will be the next subject of discussion for mandatory confiscation.

[cycleguy55]

Some interesting charts, for those who care about such things:
Visualizing gun deaths - Comparing the U.S. to rest of the world

Here's one to get you started:

Homicide rates in the U.S. and peer countries by weapon type, 2013



Maybe it's not actually about gun control, maybe it's really about culture - which is an even scarier idea.

[Tim7139]

Always nice to get advice from our friends in 3rd world countries without the benefit of those bothersome items like, you know, the constitution.
Besides, should'nt you be giving the planet your undivided attention, lest we succumb to that unavoidable .5 deg C ?

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by Tim7139

Always nice to get advice from our friends in 3rd world countries without the benefit of those bothersome items like, you know, the constitution.

You're quite welcome, from another 1st world country - with our own constitution. But, hey, thanks for playing.

[Tenrocca]

That's awesome Kanuck,

Your annoyed with someone, so you BUY A GUN. Brilliant logic.

One question for you, Your in another country about as far from me as you can get, do you really think I care about how many guns YOU have?

[kanuck]

Yes I find buying guns very therapeutic gun stores are my safe space when I am annoyed or offended. that plus helping the local economy, S&W are just up the street and Ruger is less than 50 miles up in Newhampshire so I am doing my part. What my goal and end game is it's to make it that much less appealing for you to ever visit here again. I figure every little bit helps. Please Go Away

PS: I have an aunt who someone threw paint or die on her fur coat in NY City so she walked into the closest fur store and bought two more of them she said take that Bi.tch

[cycleguy55]

Because nothing says Happy Holidays better than factory fresh firearms. Yikes.

Black Friday gun sales set record, FBI says - National | Globalnews.ca