Gun Control - Page 2

Tenrocca · #21 (**permalink**) 12-02-2015, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWRAT

I take my gun with me every where I go, even the x-mas party...

One hand gun against 3 guys with assault rifles?

DWRAT · #22 (**permalink**) 12-02-2015, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenrocca

Those 3 guys today really could have killed 14 people and wounded 20+ more with a candle stick....

There will always be murders, there will always be murderers. But allowing people with that intent access to the tools to do so so easily means that when they do lose it, more victims result.

Just be happy you don't live in the USA, I know I'm happy you don't.

Tenrocca · #23 (**permalink**) 12-02-2015, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanuck

I am sad to see you don't get it, it is very simple the cities that have the highest murder rates are the ones with the strictest control. Simple as that.

Dean

The whole world is sad that the good 'ol USA still don't get it.

kanuck · #24 (**permalink**) 12-02-2015, 06:30 PM

They banned liquor and drugs how did that work out. I tell you what, if you don't want a gun and chose to turn yours in fine don't have one. I choose to have one and I have the right to have one. And they can try and take it away from my cold dead hands.

Dean

PS: You annoy me so I am going to go buy a Glock tomorrow just cause I can.

Tenrocca · #25 (**permalink**) 12-02-2015, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWRAT

Just be happy you don't live in the USA, I know I'm happy you don't.

Spent a lot of time in the USA and loved the place, but I still tell my kids every day we won the lottery of life by being born in Australia.

cycleguy55 · #26 (**permalink**) 12-02-2015, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanuck

I am sad to see you don't get it, it is very simple the cities that have the highest murder rates are the ones with the strictest control. Simple as that.

Dean

Cause and effect: The murder rates aren't a result of the controls, the controls are a result of the murder rates.

Nobody is saying gun controls, by themselves, will solve the problem - they're only PART of the solution. The crime rates are the result of complex issues, and simplistic solutions (e.g. gun controls alone) will not solve the problem.

sea2jet · #27 (**permalink**) 12-02-2015, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwrat

just be happy you don't live in the usa, i know i'm happy you don't.

amen....

fordracing65 · #28 (**permalink**) 12-02-2015, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenrocca

Spent a lot of time in the USA and loved the place, but I still tell my kids every day we won the lottery of life by being born in Australia.

I thought Australia is where England sent all their criminals...

joyridin' · #29 (**permalink**) 12-02-2015, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenrocca

The whole world is sad that the good 'ol USA still don't get it.

No, the whole world is sad they don't have half of what the USA has. Criminals run the whole continent of Africa. ISIS controls part of the ME, and the part they don't is being over run by Al-Qaeda or other groups. The Chinese are in fear of their government because the average person cannot protect themselves.

Yeah...we get it. The rest of the world wants it to protect themselves from the evil that surrounds them.

Tenrocca · #30 (**permalink**) 12-02-2015, 08:12 PM

Comparing yourself to 2nd and third world countries to prove a point?

I'm not trying to start a pissing match over which country is better than another. What I'm saying is that it is so obvious to the whole of the developed world that gun control or lack there of is a huge problem in the U.S......and as you as a whole are so insular you just can't see it.

Jaydee · #31 (**permalink**) 12-02-2015, 08:46 PM

Even if they had total gun control, it would be impossible to get rid of the millions of guns out there. The law can't even stop the illegal drugs.
JD

fordracing65 · #32 (**permalink**) 12-02-2015, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenrocca

Comparing yourself to 2nd and third world countries to prove a point?

I'm not trying to start a pissing match over which country is better than another. What I'm saying is that it is so obvious to the whole of the developed world that gun control or lack there of is a huge problem in the U.S......and as you as a whole are so insular you just can't see it.

And my non restricted cobra exhaust is killing people also, should they ban my car... The USA is the best with all our guns and cobras, if I lived in Aussi my big block would be outlawed, that sucks in my opinion...

Tenrocca · #33 (**permalink**) 12-02-2015, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaydee

Even if they had total gun control, it would be impossible to get rid of the millions of guns out there. The law can't even stop the illegal drugs.
JD

"200,000 guns sold on Black Friday". Thats 199,000 more than would have been sold if they could only be bought for a legitimate purpose. While I agree it would be difficult at the moment gun ownership in the US is completely out of control.

Tenrocca · #34 (**permalink**) 12-02-2015, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordracing65

I thought Australia is where England sent all their criminals...

And because you are so insular you somehow think that is an insult?

If you learnt anything about Australia (or any country that is not your own) you would know that any convict heritage is carried with a great sense of pride in Oz. Thats just the kind of self deprecating (and happy) folk we are.

As I said I think America is a great country but it has a huge problem with guns. Not criticising anything else or wanting to argue about who has the best health system or weather. But if you want to start on that........

Chaplin · #35 (**permalink**) 12-02-2015, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenrocca

"200,000 guns sold on Black Friday". Thats 199,000 more than would have been sold if they could only be bought for a legitimate purpose. While I agree it would be difficult at the moment gun ownership in the US is completely out of control.

And because you are so worldly, you know all about us and what our problems are/are not?

I don't even know what your above post is trying to convey. Are you suggesting that 199,000 people went through the federal background check and were approved to buy guns for illegitimate purposes? Yes, our federal government is in the habit of authorizing sales to individuals who should not by law have guns so said guns can be used for "illegitimate" purposes.

. On second thought, maybe I should give an exception for Fast and Furious, but I digress....

In any event, please do us all a favor and don't speak of things that you know nothing about. It only irritates us and make you look ignorant. Or if you insist on demostrating your ignorance, at least do so by prefacing it with "IMO", because we can't deny you your opinion no matter how ill informed it may be. After all, you know what they say about opinions and a$$holes, everyone's got one.

Paul F · #36 (**permalink**) 12-02-2015, 09:54 PM

This is another pointless thread similar to the one about climate change. Everyone touts their position with nothing being accomplished in the way of convincing the other side of anything.

Perception and facts are often far apart. I'm guessing most people think the US is a more violent country in this last decade than perhaps in the 60's and 70's. It's not even close. Murders are half of what they were decades ago. I won't quote statistics because someone will debate them. But if you do your own research about violent crime rates by year, make your own conclusions.

No, I don't have an opinion about gun control because there is no way to evaluate cause and effect. It's simply not possible to state one way or the other how effective control would be. A countrie's culture and mindset are much more important than laws. We can see how effective drug laws are. No amount of laws will stop an addict. Society has said that using drugs are an acceptable form of behavior. It is commonly joked about on TV.

Like lemmings, people react to stimulation with a known response. If the current way to respond to your rage is a mass murder (for those with some emotional or mental issues), then that will be the response. If the current way to respond to your rage was to hang yourself, then that would be the response. This is true for all stimulation. When male friends used to meet, they shook hands. Now they hug. Really? Men hugging? 20 years ago you would have never imagined it.

So now we have this problem. Certain people now will respond to certain stimulants by deciding to do a mass murder. How does one counteract that? If guns were banned, then if someone did a mass murder by using a bomb (which are so easy to build) then what? Eliminating the current means of execution is unlikely a solution. There needs to be some other cultural change to make the response to rage/depression/or other mental issues something less than killing.

Tenrocca · #37 (**permalink**) 12-02-2015, 11:21 PM

Nice post Paul and agree with much of what your saying.

It is always very frustrating when your own opinion seems so logical and obvious that others do not share the same view point. It doesn't matter what I say there is never going to be that lightbulb moment from those with opposing views especially as it is so ingrained as a part of American history and culture.

What I do know though is that since 1996 when gun laws were brought in in Australia there has not been a single mass shooting. In the same period in the US there has been 55+ mass shootings resulting in 400+ deaths. One would have to be just a little bit stupid to suggest there is not a link between the availability of guns and the number of folk being shot in mass shootings?

Chaplin - I apologise if my use of the word "legitimate" purpose caused confusion.

Here you must be a primary producer, be a registered member of a sporting shooting club or require a firearm as part of your work (certain areas of security in addition to the obvious ones like police). These are what I consider legitimate reasons to hold a firearm licence.

Personal or home security is not considered a legitimate reason. In addition the type and style of weapon allowed was also restricted post the 1996 Port Arthur Massacre (eg. No Semi-Automatic). So when you are saying that a legitimate purchase is one that is made within the law (in the US), I am saying a legitimate purchase is one where the gun is ACTUALLY NEEDED.

As for background checks - they dont really work do they as Charleston church massacre demonstrates - he passed a background check despite being arrested for drug possesion. Plus ANYONE can buy a gun without a check at a gun show. I just think of the number of lunatics I work with that I wouldn't trust with a gun, even if it was 1% of 1%, out of that 200,000 guns sold on black friday that's potentionaly 20 new lunatics out there with a gun that shouldn't have one.

Rjw289 · #38 (**permalink**) 12-02-2015, 11:21 PM

Tenrocca-please stay in Sydney.

spookypt · #39 (**permalink**) 12-03-2015, 12:42 AM

Good topic Tenrocca.

10 years ago my then American girlfriend lived/worked in Vegas but was born and bred in Alabama. We often discussed how the USA just loved their guns and I debated at length why they needed them.

After a few months of dating she asked me how I coped living in such a cold country...... like Austria!!!

Sometimes, people find it very hard to see from the inside out.

Tenrocca · #40 (**permalink**) 12-03-2015, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rjw289

Tenrocca-please stay in Sydney.

Little unfriendly don't you think young fella? Not welcome just because I have a view on this topic that differs from your own. Not that I would really want to leave Sydney anyway......

Thought I might find a sympathetic voice on this topic on a day you just saw another 14 of your countrymen killed by a coupe of lunatics with a gun, but alas......