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[Ron61]

Hey Warren,

Detroit beat the CELTICS again last night. Are they going to take all 7 games to win again? If they play this series the full 7 and then the championship series goes 7, that will make 28 games in the playoffs. Almost like a short season. They need some Frogs to help them jump.

Ron

[392cobra]

Originally Posted by wtm442

Fred
Just send your avatar over to Joe's house. The breeze from the constant flapping would keep his wife and kids cool. Joe, on the other hand, might need a cold shower.

Got up to 82°F today, but its dropped 10 degrees in the last hour due to a sea breeze.

I just sent you an e-mail with a movie that includes your avatar. I copied Ron. I did not copy anyone else because I not sure who has access to their e-mail (maybe their wife or kids?). Its only a mild R movie.

I kept waiting for the smut you are advertising here to show up in my mail box.
Nothing,zero,zip,nada !

This morning after rereading this post,it occured to me what the problem is.
I saw you were trying to send me R rated stuff.

It looks like my content filters are doing their job,no R Rated stuff for me.

Warren,I really expected better from you.
I should have known better though.What should I expect from someone with a Guard Turtle anyway.

If you are going to sent me stuff you need to raise your standards to make it through my filters.

Anything lower than XX Rated is blocked from the get go.

[4RE KLR]

Joe,
The freezing up is also caused from low freon. Yo may have been low on freon last year but had enough that the system would still run. But this year it shut down. Think low oil shut down on your engine. Sorta works the same way. Two pounds of freon is all that system will hold so you basically had none.

Now, (not getting smart here OK, just trying to help) What makes you think just putting freon in will solve the problem? It will not. The guy that put the freon in should have suggested you have a leak test performed. My Lord that is good money for them so why would they not do it, ESPECIALLY if the unit is not in the hot attic. The only thing I can think of is, since the guy that actually came out to your house is NOT the guy they first called, they are having service problems with their "main" A/C company. My guess would be lack of payment from the builder for other jobs.

Meritage is all over the papers about the troubles they are having. They have sooooo many new developments right now and no buyers, so the market conditions are getting tough, even for the big builders.

The time frames of Morn, midday and evening are OK. Stick with your story as you know it. You may want to stop and make a time log of what happened while it is still fresh on your mind. You simply have to follow through though.

I assure you that if you don't get a leak test done and the problem fixed you will have to go through this next year. You have to fix the problem not put a band aid on it.

I know I am not looking forward to 100* today. Texas is too damn hot in the summer.

[392cobra]

Originally Posted by 4RE KLR

Joe,
The freezing up is also caused from low freon. Yo may have been low on freon last year but had enough that the system would still run. But this year it shut down. Think low oil shut down on your engine. Sorta works the same way. Two pounds of freon is all that system will hold so you basically had none. I assure you that if you don't get a leak test done and the problem fixed you will have to go through this next year. You have to fix the problem not put a band aid on it.
I know I am not looking forward to 100* today. Texas is too damn hot in the summer.

After the leak test,there is at least a couple of things left to do.

The freon that was lost was replaced by air.The system needs to be pulled down (evacuated) by vacuum to remove the air & moisture .After replacing the receiver/dryer and after fixing the leak.

Like Steve said,you just got a band aid slapped on it.

[Joe Wicked]

Thanks again guys.

I am following through. I am writing the letter tonight when I get home. I will take some time during my lunch to go ahead and chronicle what transpired as I see it.

Steve,
I never believed that just adding the Freon would fix it. I don't know crap about AC systems other than the very basics, but I do know enough that if it is really low on Freon, it has some serious problems.

Fred,
With me not really knowing that much about the systems, how do I make sure that they do this?

When I called the Sales Manager on Sunday and informed him that I was filing a complaint, I told him that I no longer want to speak with Bob. I did not believe he was telling me the truth. Today the Building Site Manager called me to follow up to see if the AC was repaired. He called before I had the chance to call. I told him what the AC repair man did and that I was not satisfied. I wanted a leak test done. He said, "No problem. I'll have the AC company call you and set up an appointment." I have dealt with this guy before and he has been strait with me, so I am trusting that he is telling the truth. I am still writing the letter to corporate to express my dissatisfaction. I will put in the letter the names of the people who I believe have tried to help as well as the complaint.

[Ron61]

Joe,

Good luck on the air conditioning. No one should have to go through that stuff to get something fixed. That is why I stay with the same company that has did mine for many years. I know they will do a good job. A couple of years ago they sent a new guy out to do my Fall check and he didn't do much of anything and I told him I wanted the pump and everything checked. He informed me he didn't do that so I called the company. They fired him a week later and sent another one of the techs out to take the unit down and do the complete service. He told me it wasnt just my call that got that guy fired, that every service call he went on they got complaints about him being rude and not fixing problems. I am thinking of having my vent pipes cleaned which will be extra but they have never had the dust cleaned out of them in all these years,

Ron

[Joe Wicked]

seriously heavy downpour here right now. Lots of thunder and lightning. I think it needs to strike the power substation so I have an excuse to go home.

[Ron61]

Boy, we could use that rain out here. Don't need the lightening as the forests are to dry. They have already started mandatory water rationing here and you can't use over so much a month or you will be charged huge amounts and if you do it to many times they may fine you. No washing cars, watering lawns, gardens, or any other non essential usage. Turn off all electrical stuff you don't have to have to conserve as there is going to be a shortage. My thistle and weeds will thrive this Summer.

Ron

[4RE KLR]

Originally Posted by Joe Wicked

Thanks again guys.

I am following through. I am writing the letter tonight when I get home. I will take some time during my lunch to go ahead and chronicle what transpired as I see it.

Steve,
I never believed that just adding the Freon would fix it. I don't know crap about AC systems other than the very basics, but I do know enough that if it is really low on Freon, it has some serious problems.

Fred,
With me not really knowing that much about the systems, how do I make sure that they do this?

When I called the Sales Manager on Sunday and informed him that I was filing a complaint, I told him that I no longer want to speak with Bob. I did not believe he was telling me the truth. Today the Building Site Manager called me to follow up to see if the AC was repaired. He called before I had the chance to call. I told him what the AC repair man did and that I was not satisfied. I wanted a leak test done. He said, "No problem. I'll have the AC company call you and set up an appointment." I have dealt with this guy before and he has been strait with me, so I am trusting that he is telling the truth. I am still writing the letter to corporate to express my dissatisfaction. I will put in the letter the names of the people who I believe have tried to help as well as the complaint.

Joe,
Basically they have a pump they put on the system outside and run it for ..sometimes an hour or so. The pump is the size of a lunch box and will hook up to the freon lines. The pump then circulates the freon through the pump and filters out the air. For lack of better description.

Problem with this is the leak has to be fixed first or you are just waisting your time.

Think about it this way. This is a closed system, much as you fuel line is on your car. If you open the system to change a fuel filter you have to bleed the air back out of the system. Same concept only with the A/C system it is done with a pump.

Have you ever seen someone pump down the A/C unit on a car? It is the same thing only the process is on a bigger scale. It is a no brain-er for the service tech and very easy to do so do not let them give you $hit about it. It needs to be done when the leak is fixed.

I would even go as far as asking them to warranty the A/C compressor for another year due to the total loss of freon. It is not out of the question. I would go out and look on the unit and see who the manufacturer is and write them a letter asking for the details on the unit. If you include the serial number they will give you a history report on it. They will tell you how much freon is supposed to be in the system. Remember this will also be determined by how far the compressor is from the furnace in the house. They normally do not like to run the freon lines further than 50' but I see them well over 100' everyday. The problem if it is too far the freon lines need to be bigger and there needs to be more freon in the system. Makes since right more lines more freon.

Anyway the manufacturer will give you all you need to know about the system and they actually welcome comments from homeowners on the service records of their systems. Hey, it cost nothing but the price of a stamp.

[392cobra]

Some of the following is for an a/c in car.The differences between an a/c in a car & home aren't enough to matter.

Evacuate A/C system
Evacuating an A/C system is the process of pulling the A/C system into a vacuum. This is one of the most critical processes when recharging or servicing any automotive A/C system and often one of the most misunderstood processes.

Vacuuming an A/C system has no effect on cleaning or removing debris or contamination. The only function of pulling vacuum or evacuating and A/C system is to remove all the air from the system. Removing air will also remove any moisture that may be in the system.

Removing both air and moisture is critical to the proper operation of an A/C system. Air is a non-condensable gas. Leaving air in the A/C system will cause excessive high side pressures and lead to poor cooling performance. Excessive high side pressures will also create greater loads on the A/C compressor leading to premature failure. Additionally, moisture in the system, once mixed with refrigerants will create acids that are harmful to the system. Those acids cause internal corrosion of A/C system components. That leads to leaks in A/C condensers and evaporators.

Whenever pulling a vacuum on an A/C system, it’s critical that the vacuum pump used is capable of pulling deep vacuum, typically under 500 microns. In order to determine proper levels of vacuum, a micron vacuum gauge should be used.

Most manifold pressure gauges include a compound pressure gauge for low side pressure readings. The compound gauge allows the gauge to read levels of pressure and vacuum. The problem is that the vacuum scale on the compound gauge is so small that it is really difficult to tell what level of vacuum is really being attained. Besides, inches of mercury are not as accurate for measuring vacuum as microns.

Microns are only a different scale of measurement. One micron equals one millionth of a millimeter. When comparing levels of vacuum in microns and inches of mercury, understand that 28.9 inches of vacuum is only equal to about 25,000 microns. On the other hand, 29.9 inches of vacuum is almost 50 microns. The lower the number of microns means the better level of vacuum.

When using just compound pressure gauges, it is almost impossible to tell the difference between 28.9 and 29.9 inches of vacuum. What complicates matters even more is that you need to understand water will not boil until a level of vacuum under 1,500 microns is achieved. The vacuum scale on a compound pressure gauge can not assure you that the proper level of deep vacuum is being pulled. For those reasons, vacuum pumps should routinely be checked with a micron vacuum gauge in order to assure that they are pulling the deep vacuum that is required whenever servicing auto A/C systems.



© Copyright 2006 by yourACauthority.com

Home HVAC System....

"must use a micron gauge to show you that the system will hold below 500 microns for 15 minutes. (If moisture remains in the system the gauge will climb from 500 to 1500 microns and stop. If it climbs past 1500 microns there is a leak.) If the tech does not use a micron gauge then there is no way of knowing that all the moisture has been removed. If you do not remove all the moisture then you could end up replacing the compressor again soon."

Receiver Drier

Not to be confused with accumulators, the receiver drier is a metal container that performs a few different functions on the A/C system. Most importantly, the drier will absorb moisture from the refrigerant.

Also referred to as a receiver-dehydrator, the drier is located on the liquid line of the A/C system, just after the A/C condenser and before the expansion valve. The drier not only dries refrigerant, it also filters the refrigerant and stores it under certain operating conditions.

The most common design in use today includes what is referred to as a ‘sandwich’ style filter element. That filter design includes layers of filter media to trap particles of debris and contamination in the A/C system as well as silica gel desiccant that will absorb moisture. As the refrigerant in the A/C system circulates, it will all pass through the drier. Upon entering the drier, the refrigerant is forced through the sandwich style filter in order to reach the pick up tube (at the bottom of the drier). Once at the pick up tube, the refrigerant exits the drier and moves downstream to the expansion valve. On days with reduced heat load, where there is less of a demand on liquid refrigerant in the evaporator, the receiver drier will store some refrigerant.

The most important function that the drier performs is to filter and dry the refrigerant. Understand that when moisture and refrigerant mix, a chemical reaction is created resulting in the formation of harmful acids. Those acids corrode the A/C system components (internally). The resulting corrosion is a form of debris and contamination in the A/C system. Receiver driers should be changed every 3-4 years to assure that moisture absorbing silica gel desiccant is not contaminated with excess moisture. Drier should also be replaced whenever changing other major components like A/C compressors.


© Copyright 2006 by yourACauthority.com

[trularin]

Joe, freezing can be caused by "failure to start".

Most newer systems have a set of conditions they must meet to complete a cycle. If they "fail to start", they go into a CRC. Some take so long to complete their CRC, the compressor will freeze up.

Does the small blower run before the system?
Does the system begin to blow and then shut down...before the compressor is covered with ice?
Does the control board have a LED disagnostic tool ( lights in an order )?

These could get you started.

Something as stupid as a hunk of hair in the blower cage can cause the motor to draw too much current...thus faulting the controller.

If you have already talked about all of this, sorry for taking more of your time.

[Joe Wicked]

Thanks guys. I will pay close attention and ask questions as they do this. I really do appreciate it. I owe you guys one if you need any electrical gremlins chased on your cars.

[Joe Wicked]

Originally Posted by trularin

Joe, freezing can be caused by "failure to start".

Most newer systems have a set of conditions they must meet to complete a cycle. If they "fail to start", they go into a CRC. Some take so long to complete their CRC, the compressor will freeze up.

Does the small blower run before the system?
Does the system begin to blow and then shut down...before the compressor is covered with ice?
Does the control board have a LED disagnostic tool ( lights in an order )?

These could get you started.

Something as stupid as a hunk of hair in the blower cage can cause the motor to draw too much current...thus faulting the controller.

If you have already talked about all of this, sorry for taking more of your time.

The blower never shut down. It would continue to blow, but the air stopped being cold. When I inspected it, I found the compressor, and the AC lines encased in ice. Even inside was encased in ice.

[trularin]

Joe,

With the heat the way it is in your area, the guy you get will be over worked and irritated. Keep this in mind when you are working with him. Or, if your wife is going to be talking with the tech, remind her of his situation.

They are interested in fixing the problem and not having to return.

[trularin]

THere should be two blowers...a small one and a large one. Does the little one turn on?

[Joe Wicked]

No idea if the other does not turn on. I just know I hear a blower.

I didn't get irritated at all with the tech and won't with the new one. I will let him know the problems I am having and inform him that I will be asking a lot of questions and watching. Not that I don't trust him, I don't know him. I am just covering myself in my fight against the builder. I have used this tactic in the past when dealing with a 3rd party who is sent to resolve a problem and what has happened every time is that tech/whatever is more than helpful in talking about what they are doing and answering my questions. I have done this in apts with maintenance and service techs as well as in my daily operations at work. I picked it up when someone said the same to me. It lets the guy know from the get go where the questions are coming from and they know you are not questioning their ability, but genuinely want to know for your fight and for future reference. So far everyone has been completely helpful when I use this approach.

[Joe Wicked]

ooo, the heavy rain is back. Lost power for a bit, but it came back on. No early day for me

[trularin]

There is either a "failure to start" on the controller...or a low pressure differential.

He should know he is following someone else, may I suggest you inform him politely.

Good luck, I hope this works out for you.

[4RE KLR]

Tru,
Correct me if I am wrong here but the Furnace will have two circulation fans but not the A/C unless it is a variable speed unit. Hmm Am I missing something here.

Joe, is this system a heat pump unit?

Here is a forum ( & thread) on this very subject: many inspectors use this forum.
Heat pump freeze-up - InspectionNews - Home Inspection

[Joe Wicked]

Yes it is a heat pump unit, but I do not really know what that means.

Edit nevermind. I just went to my trusty website and found some info

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