Taxes And More Taxes

[Ron61]

At first I thought this was funny...then I realized the awful truth of it.
Be sure to read all the way to the end!

Tax his land,
Tax his bed,
Tax the table
At which he's fed.

Tax his tractor,
Tax his mule,
Teach him taxes
Are the rule.

Tax his cow,
Tax his goat,
Tax his pants,
Tax his coat.

Tax his ties,
Tax his shirt,
Tax his work,
Tax his dirt.

Tax his tobacco,
Tax his drink,
Tax him if he
Tries to think.

Tax his cigars,
Tax his beers,
If he cries, then
Tax his tears.

Tax his car,
Tax his gas,
Find other ways
To tax his ass

Tax all he has
Then let him know
That you won't b e done
Till he has no dough.

When he screams and hollers,
Then tax him some more,
Tax him till
He's good and sore.

Then tax his coffin ,
Tax his grave,
Tax the sod in
Which he's laid.

Put these words
upon his tomb,
" Taxes drove me to my doom..."

When he's gone,
Do not relax,
Its time to apply
The inheritance tax.

Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Excise Taxes
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax,
Fuel permit tax
Gasoline Tax (42 cents per gallon)
Gross Receipts Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Interest expense
Inventory tax
IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Personal Property Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Service char ge taxes
Social Security Tax
Road usage taxes
Sales Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone federal excise tax
Telephone federal universal service fee tax
Telephone federal, state and local surcharge taxes
Telephone minimum usage surcharge tax
Telephone recurring and non-recurring charges tax
Telephone state and local tax
Telephone usage charge tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax

COMMENTS: Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, and our nation was the most prosperous in the world. We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in the world, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.

What the hell happened?
Can you spell "politicians?"

And I still have to "press 1" for English.

I hope this goes around THE USA at least a 1,000,000 times.

Ron

[Garage10]

Too bad we can't get rid of all the BS and politicians and get back to some common sense. Taxes are killing us in Canada too ! it's enough to make me want to hurl.

[trularin]

If I am not wrong, we, Americans, went to war with the British over taxation without representation.

I wonder who we see about that if we did it to ourselves?

[Art Burtt]

Maybe a "barter" system would take some of our money out of their hands or a tax revolution may be in order!

[wtm442]

Ron
Thanks for posting that ditty. Excellent. I copied it and sent it to all of my local and state politicians. I wonder how many will send me an answer and what they will say.

Do you know the author?

The reason for all the taxes is that everyone wants the "government" to do more. Better this, bigger that, more aid for X, more programs to help Y.

Its called socialism. Big brother collects all the money, and redistributes it back to the "people", minus their cut (salaries). Very inefficient. The government does not create any wealth.

The list is woefully incomplete. It does not include any fees and licenses (just other words instead of using "tax"). Dog license, marriage license, etc.

[Ron61]

Warren,

No I don't know who the author of that list was. But it would take a book to list all the so called sur charges and other taxes that are hidden by other names.

Ron

[Roscoe]

Don't forget that voluntary tax....the lottery.

BTW, Dems just did this:

WASHINGTON (AP) - Declaring a new direction in energy policy, the House on Saturday approved $16 billion in taxes on oil companies, while providing billions of dollars in tax breaks and incentives for renewable energy and conservation efforts.

Republican opponents said the legislation ignored the need to produce more domestic oil, natural gas and coal. One GOP lawmaker bemoaned "the pure venom ... against the oil and gas industry."

Don't they realize that corporations just pass increases over to the consumer?

They just raised your taxes AGAIN! And many will cheer because the oil companies are 'rotten, greedy, etc'. Forget that many peoples retirement accounts hold oil stocks (among many other big rotten, greedy corps).
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070805/D8QQNQM00.html

Here is an interesting observation:

Government taxes corporations on their product and not the labor it takes to produce. By taxing 100% of YOUR personal earnings, the tax is being applied not only to the profit, if any, (income) derived from wages and salaries, but also taxing the human capital (your effort, knowledge, skill, energy and labor), which is your PROPERTY, that you invested in order to receive the wage or salary.

Don't get me started,
Roscoe

[Wes Tausend]

...


Very true.

And the worst part is that all real wealth is generated by the productive working class. Us. In a very real sense, we then still pay ALL the taxes, one way or another. Every nickel. So, other than temporary colonial reprieve, the world hasn't changed much.

I don't think the idle poor (or idle rich) bother to post here much. Or contribute much otherwise. So I don't expect a lot of flaming on my labor "tax burden" opinion.

...

[Roscoe]

Hate to tell you Wes, but you are wrong.....very wrong.

Top 5% pay 53.25% of all income taxes (Down from 2000 figure: 56.47%).

The top 10% pay 64.89% (Down from 2000 figure: 67.33%).

The top 25% pay 82.9% (Down from 2000 figure: 84.01%).

The top 50% pay 96.03% (Down from 2000 figure: 96.09%).

The bottom 50%? They pay a paltry 3.97% of all income taxes.

The top 1% is paying more than ten times the federal income taxes than the bottom 50%! And who earns what? The top 1% earns 17.53 (2000: 20.81%) of all income. The top 5% earns 31.99 (2000: 35.30%). The top 10% earns 43.11% (2000: 46.01%); the top 25% earns 65.23% (2000: 67.15%), and the top 50% earns 86.19% (2000: 87.01%) of all the income. (source: IRS)

I don't know how you describe the productive working class?? Remember, not much wealth is inherited. Not everyone is a Ted Kennedy. It is created by hard working productive people who gamble and take unbelievable risks. They work long hours and hire alot of people.

Class warfare does not fly....it only creates envious people who never really make anything of themselves. Those same envious people would love to have the wealth created by the hard working productive person but they are too lazy or don't have the confidence or know how to do it. Most wind up with the protection and security of a union job. That's the best they can do.

[J. T. Toad]

no worries, they will just raise minimum wage to cover any increases or devaluation of the dollar.

Not only would I like to see only property owners be allowed to vote (even though I live in a Mexican revolutionist state), I wonder about limiting voting to anyone who doesn't receive a paycheck from the government.

me and my perfect world (English only ballots).

[Ron61]

Bill,

When you find your perfect world let me know which planet it is on as I would like to join you.

Ron

[Wes Tausend]

Originally Posted by Roscoe

Hate to tell you Wes, but you are wrong.....very wrong.

Top 5% pay 53.25% of all income taxes (Down from 2000 figure: 56.47%).

The top 10% pay 64.89% (Down from 2000 figure: 67.33%).

The top 25% pay 82.9% (Down from 2000 figure: 84.01%).

The top 50% pay 96.03% (Down from 2000 figure: 96.09%).

The bottom 50%? They pay a paltry 3.97% of all income taxes.

The top 1% is paying more than ten times the federal income taxes than the bottom 50%! And who earns what? The top 1% earns 17.53 (2000: 20.81%) of all income. The top 5% earns 31.99 (2000: 35.30%). The top 10% earns 43.11% (2000: 46.01%); the top 25% earns 65.23% (2000: 67.15%), and the top 50% earns 86.19% (2000: 87.01%) of all the income. (source: IRS)

I don't know how you describe the productive working class?? Remember, not much wealth is inherited. Not everyone is a Ted Kennedy. It is created by hard working productive people who gamble and take unbelievable risks. They work long hours and hire alot of people.

Class warfare does not fly....it only creates envious people who never really make anything of themselves. Those same envious people would love to have the wealth created by the hard working productive person but they are too lazy or don't have the confidence or know how to do it. Most wind up with the protection and security of a union job. That's the best they can do.

Roscoe,

First, I don't think that this problem is directly political in the sense of party loyalty. Neither classical Republicans nor classical Democrats are founded on much of what is happening in Congress today. But...

"...not much wealth is inherited..."
Actually a lot of wealth is inherited. That is why we hear of so much whining and efforts to circumvent the "Death Tax"

".. Class warfare does not fly...."
Not quite sure what you mean here but class warfare has been with us nearly since the beginning. The age old struggle of the "haves and have-nots". Are you saying that one side should just give up?


"Hate to tell you Wes, but you are wrong.....very wrong."
Sorry to disagree Roscoe. That appears illogical to me. The top 5% aren't earning their money. It is simply not possible for them to do it. I think you are buying into a bit of propoganda, one area where the "haves" are definately not idle. Back when money was sea shells and a man had a cave full of sea shells, he no doubt once spent most of his time desperately guarding the cave, no time for true idleness.

In reality, guys like me, probably you (& working people everywhere), are doing the actual "pie" production and the top 5 % are taking way more than their share. We have to expect a little spin on their story. The way I see it, I can afford to support the idle poor to the present extent. The unemployment rate is low, there aren't many idle. The idle, and those that work at all barely take enough to eat. The idle rich are a heavy, hidden and growing burden. And I assume the same hidden burden for you if you aren't one of the "idle rich", even if you can't see it... yet.

The statistics you quote are probably true but misleading... on purpose. You and I are not only paying our growing middle class tax load but nearly all the taxes of the top 5 % as well. Nobody said the world was fair but no harm in seeking balance... depending on who you talk to. Sure, they'll call me names.

Before you express that I, not you, have bought into a fake idealogy, let me hasten to explain my position. I think that I, and all of us, can reason this for ourselves how economics work in their most simple form and apply the irrevocable principles to more sophisticated situations. I don't believe there is any magic to this, rocket science or secret mysterious principles. Smokescreen, perhaps. Lotta smoke.

First, there is nothing wrong with capitalism... some that is. Pure capitalism is like a Monopoly game, last man left standing wins. But there is nothing inherently wrong with some socialism as well. There is a good reason that our attention is diverted to the "terrible" burden of socialism and its idle poor. That's the smokescreen. That's the guy guarding the cave. Can't blame him for trying. At least I can't blame him.

The logic? I can relate a parable as to best describe to how I believe capitalism probably started. The original basic principles are true today.

At one time, very long ago, humans lived and survived in a socialistic state. We were hunters and gatherers. Everyone had a job, worked about 20 hours a week and results were shared in a tribal commune. But even then, by necessity, some on-person articles were personal possessions. Somebody took it a bit further. While many stone age inhabitants belived that no one could own the waters, the sky and the forest ...the first capitalist did.

Somebody... the first capitalist... initially claimed the "public" berry patch as personal property. A very suave privatization manuver, this guy convinced the rest of the tribe that the patch was his. I imagine they "bought his propoganda". Thereafter he did not have to pick his own berries. Not only that, but he could now "own" far more berries than he could pick. The less berries he gave the "hired" pickers, the more he got to keep. He became the first top 5 %. He, and his kind, even devised the first tax to pay other citizens to guard these berries.... alieviating himself from standing there with a spear day in and day out. Young men gave their lives to protect these berries... and still do.

Now who was paying the taxes back then? Today? If we take the taxes from the patch owner he will cry that it is an unfair burden on his hard earned wealth. If we take the berries from the labor force, they will of course sometimes cry that they are unduly burdened. One fact stands out. The labor force picked all, or nearly all, the berries. One way or another labor pays all, or nearly all the taxes. The patch owner simply couldn't pick all the berries he "owns". It isn't physically possible. Patch owners take risks but often with money that was not personally earned to start. Nobody but nobody... can physically handpick more than slightly above the average or so. We might assume anybody with an extreme excess amount had, or has, their hand in somebody elses berry bowl. So I say tax'em more. Lower my taxes. If the top 5 % don't like it fine. They can quit and be middle class and work again. Or they can drop to poor and I'll still feed them, but not as well as I have been.

Now I have no problem with a farmer who personally plants his own berries and works hard to get ahead. On soil he "owns" or leases from the new overseas owners. Well, the overseas owners bother me some. But this farmer is no pie thief either. There are many of us playing this Monopoly game and benefiting from our own hard work and, truthfully, that of others. But no fun playing Monopoly in the dark and pretending it isn't human nature to exploit others.

I have some experience. I've owned a business with a dozen employees. I've worked for low end corporate management. The simple fact is that corporations band together and continuously change the rules mostly for more power, usually to gain advantage over costs... labor for one. Unions band together for more power to change the rules back to hedge this exploitation when it occurs. Both get a bit greedy when they have the upper hand. Human nature.

It is my opinion that the pendulum has swung too far the other way towards the wealthy elite. I think world modern labor has a claim. Both capitalism and socialism are here to stay and we have been seeking balance ever since they originally co-existed. Those that have strayed from this logic... well we could use your help.


And that is basically my argument, my opinion.


...

[Roscoe]

Ahhhhhh....What?

[Wes Tausend]

Originally Posted by Roscoe

Ahhhhhh....What?

...

"Originally Posted by Roscoe
Ahhhhhh....What?
"

I said... this is my berry patch now. You'll have to pay to pick here.

We have a great finance plan.

Good one, Roscoe. Has that classic early peasant look.


...

[Ron61]

He has the look of one of the Geico (spelling) Insurance Company cavemen in their TV commercials.

Ron

[J. T. Toad]

Wes, I liked your caveman/farmer analogy. I would like to add to the present state of affairs. Being in one of the most fertile regions in the world, I get some exposure to the 'berry planters,' matter of fact, up until about a month ago I was a 'berry planter' myself, of sorts.

I find it laughable when

1)on an overproduction year farmers, living in their multi million dollar homes, are on TV griping how hard of a life they have it

2) on a underproduction year, as the receive their insurance payment/government subsidy, are on TV griping how hard of a life they have it

3) on any given year a farmer will receive a sty pen for a crop they don't harvest, are on TV griping how hard of a life they have it.

This by no means is a carte blanch example of what happens to the modern day farmer, but it does typify what occurs as commonplace.... It is all a game. I never found my multi-million dollar home, as I bought in as in investor, and when I went to visit the crop manager, in his million dollar estate, to find out why my losses (tax shelter deductibility) were so high, I was enlightened to the system at play. I could go on but it wouldn't matter...

let me say this,

we have so far digressed from a capitalistic and socialistic society, society is completely ignorant of no greater goal other than the present state of self.

There is no logic to be found in an illogical system.

Ron,
Don't worry. The perfect world I know of... well, as I look into what the future appears to be, it won't be that much longer.

BahKAWK!!! Chicken Little is heading back to his roost.

[Ron61]

Bill,

I watched a program on the History Channel last night that was quite interesting. It was comparing a computer program some company had written to scan the whole Internet day and night and compute the possible trends in the stock market. But one of the analyzers noticed something odd about it and started checking it closely. In July 2001, it had stated that an event would happen within 6 months that would change our way of life forever. Then came 9/11. Now they are watching it and comparing it to the Book of revelations and it is erie at how close it is coming to many of the things in the Bible. So your perfect world could be here sooner than many expect.

Ron

[aharris]

I read an article that said the top 52 billionares in the UK grossed something over 150 billion last year and payed a cumulative 16.5 million in taxes. I on the other hand pay 48% of my income over 100K.

Life sucks and then you die.

A

[Ron61]

Andrew,

I know that feeling very well. When I was working I paid so much in taxes that the other two guys combined didn't pay that much. I felt that I was fortunate to actually get half of my pay as the Govt. sure was watching out for me. When I went on disability, one of the women from the Social Security Office came to my house to talk to me and she told me they had looked at my records and I had paid more into taxes the last 5 months I was able to work that her gross for the year was. I didn't mind paying my fair share, but I thought way back then it was tilted way to much.

Ron

[J. T. Toad]

If you are wondering where our country is headed, ask yourself how a telcom tycoon from Mexico is now the world's richest.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/busine...richest04.html

After looking at the bridge collapse, one has to wonder where our 'infrastructure' is going.