Cyclists

[Ron61]

Al,

Thank you for trying to explain your post and I know what you mean. But I stand by my statements regarding 98% of the cyclists around here. You said the bicycle lanes don't go where the cyclists want to go. These go right along side the streets and cars are not allowed in them except when turning. And I have never seen a bicycle in them in the two years since they were built. They still insist on riding two to six deep in the center of the road. Since the lanes are along side the street, where could these idiots want to go that the lane doesn't? I try to stay as far away from traffic as possible and if I do have to ride on a street where there is no shoulder I get as far over to the edge as I can and try to listen for traffic so I can be ready to let them by. They even built a combination skateboard/bicycle area with concrete jumps and the whole works here a few years ago as they were complaining they had no place to practice. After ruining a big piece of the local park and wasting millions, the bicyclists still haul plywood and steel steel stands out in the streets and parking lots to do their so called practicing and I hardly ever see one of them at the place they all cried to have built. I do see the skateboarders using their part a lot.

Ron

[Al Bockman]

I apologize if I gave anybody the impression that I condone what these idiots are doing. I do NOT! Their actions, as can be seen from this thread, give some motorists homicidal thoughts. I have no interest in becoming a statistic.

Here goes... pick the response you feel is directed at you and let 'er rip! If they're not in order, please forgive me.

Maybe education would help the problem. Cyclists need to know that they have to obey the rules of the road and motorists need to know that cyclists have a right to be on the road. If 5 and 6 year old kids are creating problems, maybe the parents should teach them. Have you ever told the kids what they are doing is wrong and instructed them on the right way? I have. Now, couriers, those guys ARE crazy! Beyond redemption. If they had the money they would probably drive Cobras!

Glyn, I appreciate British humor, much to my wife's chagrin. Threatening bodily harm just ain't funny, especially when I could be at the receiving end.

When I made the comment about cojones I said "probably". I don't need to hear every personal feat of derring-do you've done to prove you have more guts than I do. Just try it. Stand on the shoulder with your back to the traffic and give it a whirl!

I'm sure the freight train incident was scary. The difference is that you were 10 feet away and the train is on tracks. That train isn't going to jump out and hit you. One twitch of the steering wheel by that semi and I'm under the wheels. When you let loose with the horn hope that the cyclist is by himself. I'm sure with witnesses your horn honking could get you in trouble if you caused a crash. Now all you need is a big dog in the back of your truck barking.

Thank you for taking the trouble to look up the statutes regarding traffic laws. Do they have any about obeying the speed limit, too? My point is we all bend or break traffic laws occasionally, and that is what the police force is there for. If some vigilante gets upset by being passed by a group of Cobras doing 100 mph, does he have the right to do physical harm to the cars and/or drivers if he catches them?

Obviously, a lot of motorists don't follow the rules either. What's your solution? Mine is to enforce the traffic laws, whether for cyclists or motorists. Not run people off the road. Is your locomotive horn on a diesel pickup by any chance? It's always helpful to lug the engine then floor it to give them a good blast of black smoke when you pass a cyclist, too. It may not demonstrate the size of your cojones, but it does demonstrate the size of their next door neighbor.

Stupidity? The semi driver or the cyclist? I could imagine a SAM would be a scary situation, but just like I volunteered to be on the road with my bike, you probably volunteered to be shot at by missiles and land on aircraft carriers. Some could say you put yourself in that situation ,too. Cojones or ? You knew the hazards when you signed up. Recreational pursuits and military service are apples and oranges, don't you think?

Oh, and I have a right to be on the road. I think I'll exercise it, thank you very much.

BMX riders setting up ramps in the street is an entirely different issue. Hey, I get upset at all the Michael Jordan wannabees with their hoops all over the sidewalk. Should I run over them if they play basketball in the street?

I hate to get behind slow traffic, too. There are laws for that, too. In Colorado you are supposed to pull over if five vehicles are jammed up behind you. Think anybody does? No. How are we going to keep those motorhomes off the road! They are in my way! Oh, that's right. They have a right to be there. But you have to admit, it's easier to pass a cyclist than a motorhome.

I doubt if 98% of any group does anything. Where did you get that number?

Cyclists ride for the same reason you drive your Cobras, hunt, fish, chase women or any other recreational pursuit. Love of the sport. They do have a right to be on the road. You have to share. That's life.

I do not condone breaking traffic laws by cyclists or motorists. I don't ride in big groups. I stay as far right as possible, but keep in mind that I get a much more intimate view of what's on the road, and the closer to the shoulder, the more broken bottles, loose gravel and other hazards there are, all creating potential problems.

And before anybody says anything about doping in the Tour de France (probably the first time that's been brought up on CC), let's put the NBA, NFL and MLB players through the same drug-testing standards. Now, what are we going to do on Sunday afternoons? Run over cyclists, I guess.

I'll be out on the bike this afternoon, riding about 40 miles. Please don't kill me for it.

Al

"Can't we all just get along?"

[Ron61]

Al,

After your initial post and based on what I see the cyclists doing around here, I went over to our police station and talked to them about the problem and they are the ones that gave me the 98% figure that don't obey the law and none of the cyclists here have any type of inspections or are required to get a license of any kind. If you don't like that figure, take it up with the local police as they are the ones scraping these fools off cars, trucks, and in one case each other as two of the were going to jump the railroad from opposite sides and hit head on in mid air and then fell down the embankment. One of them almost died and will never be the same and the other will always have a limp. For the most part we do get along but you give the impression that cyclists have all the rights of motorists and like it or not, here they don't. They are not supposed to even be on the freeway. At least my neighbor up the street is bringing his kids along correctly. They have to wear helmets and stay out of the center of the road or he will ground them for a week. And if they want to jump, they have to go to the place the city built which is a whole five blocks from here. I have been caught behind slow traffic also, but I have yet to see motor homes line up side by side and block both lanes of a highway that is 4 lanes wide.

Ron

[Cobrabill]

By Al:"I'm sure the freight train incident was scary. The difference is that you were 10 feet away and the train is on tracks. That train isn't going to jump out and hit you.

Sigh.........a 80 car train passing at 75 mph creates enough suction as it passes to pull you under.


When you let loose with the horn hope that the cyclist is by himself. I'm sure with witnesses your horn honking could get you in trouble if you caused a crash. Now all you need is a big dog in the back of your truck barking."

I have a lid on my truck bed.Nice try-any more non-sequiturs?
__________________________________________________ __________

Thank you for taking the trouble to look up the statutes regarding traffic laws. Do they have any about obeying the speed limit, too?

And thank-you for your vain attempt at deflecting the point.There are no references to speed in the statutes pertaining to bicyclists.
__________________________________________________ _______________
By Al:
My point is we all bend or break traffic laws occasionally, and that is what the police force is there for. If some vigilante gets upset by being passed by a group of Cobras doing 100 mph, does he have the right to do physical harm to the cars and/or drivers if he catches them?

Another non-sequitur.A group of Cobras passing at 100mph effects no-one(assuming no physical contact).However,bicyclists spread out 2,3,4,5,6 abreast as mentioned previously DO effect others.
With regards to your use of the word"occasionally",yes,everyone does "occasioally' break the law.But bicyclists do it CONTINUALLY.

[Al Bockman]

Ron,

I'm only going by what Colorado law says about cyclists. Your mileage in the Republic of Kalifornia may vary.

98%? That would be 49 out of 50 doing something illegal. Sounds as if your local police force has an enforcemnet problem. They should be making a killing off the ticket revenues. If your roads are constantly blocked by large groups of cyclists (how many bikes would it take to block four lanes, anyway?) you need to have a discussion with the police chief.

Again with the license and inspection. If they had to be licensed and inspected, would that really make you happy?

The reason I bring up motorhomes is because people really seem to have a problem with bicycles and let other "impeders" slide. How about the 1/4 mile long group of Harley's putt-putting along 5 mph below the speed limit with one motorcycle-length between them? Inspected, licensed, and street-legal. Do they aggravate you?

I guess people get mad at what they want and let other things slide. If cyclists get your goat, there's nothing I can do or say to change your mind about them. You pick your battles. After all, it's your blood pressure.

Good luck cleaning up your traffic problems in Shasta Lake.

When we run out of fossil fuels and bicycles become a more accepted mode of transportation, and you have to supply your own horsepower instead of buying it, remember that you should stay to the right as much as possible. Oh, and watch out for broken bottles and idiots with loud horns.

I hope I haven't pushed any of you over the edge and cause you to you take out your anger at me on some innocent cyclist. Cyclists are, after all, living breathing human beings with lives and families that are important to them, just like you. They are just enjoying the world at a different pace.

Al

[Ron61]

Al,

You brought up the license issue in your first post. I could care less about it. What would make me happy is if the cyclists would show the same respect to traffic as they demand. I told you that I do ride a bicycle, I just try my best to stay out of the center of the street and ride as far on the side as I can. And yes, our law is different than yours if you are allowed to ride a bicycle on a freeway. Here even a motorcycle has to have a certain amount of horsepower before they can be licensed to ride on I-5 for example. I am not mad and I do get disgusted at following a motor home or truck for 20 miles over a mountain at 10 MPH. I normally pull off to the side when I can find a spot and wait a while for them to get over the top. No, the Harleys don't aggravate me because they leave room for us to pass in the other lane. The motorcyclists around here are far more courteous than the bicyclists. And our police force is small as this is a small community here.

Edit: It takers 8 bikes weaving back and forth to block 4 lanes.

Ron

[Al Bockman]

Okay, Cobrabill, you have the biggest pair on the planet. No wonder you don't ride a bike. They'd get caught in the chain!

While the details police are out in force, would your box car incident have been more or less scary if you would have been closer to town and in broad daylight?

I thought about the barking comment, too. Didn't feel like editing it. Apparently you understood what I meant. Maybe I should get a job writing newspaper headlines.

Same for the speed limit remark. I was referring to cars. Since you say the statutes don't mention speed limits for bicycles specifically, does that mean I don't have to obey them coming down a mountain pass? 60 mph on a bicycle is a great thrill. Try it sometime. There are minimums on some highways, thus they are closed to bicycles (some Interstates, for example).

How many peletons do you guys encounter? Are there ALWAYS groups 4 or 5 or more wide where you live? Since this is against the law, I would suggest you contact the local authorities and have it stopped. And, yes, a group of speeding Cobras does affect somebody else. When they encounter other motorists, p*ssing them off, it affects the whole Cobra community. Didn't you see the insurance thread here recently? I didn't notice your answer about whether or not any vigilante justice is justified. Breaking traffic laws shouldn't be punishable by violence.

CONTINUALLY. Hmm... any more hyperbole? I guess we could say motorists are CONTINUALLY breaking traffic laws, too. I don't know if two wrongs make a right, but three lefts do.

If your argument has been reduced to critiquing my writing style, I guess you're out of bullets.

The bottom line is for everybody to obey the law, respect each other and follow the Golden Rule.

Al

[Al Bockman]

Ron,

The inspection and fees were brought up by the gentleman from Texas, not me.

I got behind a long line of Harleys earlier this year. I guess I don't have enough horsepower to pass a 1/4 line of motorcyles doing 55 mph in a 60 mph zone without a break between motorcyles. I'm not going to do the math, but that would have taken a LOT of the oncoming traffic lane. I just sat in and followed them. I didn't contemplate doing them bodily harm, although a few of the female riders had me contemplating "assault with a friendly weapon". My wife probably would have frowned on that, though.

Al

[Ron61]

Al,

My bad about saying you brought up the inspection fees and I should have gone back and read the posts again. I apologize for that. As for the motorcycle thing most of them that I have encountered in any size groups are on the freeway and we have 3 lanes each way or two each way in all places, so you have a lane to pass in. The one group that I did come up behind going up to Lassen Peak were strung out a long ways but they would let me pass and if a curve was coming up they would break apart enough so I could pull back in line.

Ron

[dbockman]

I agree with Al, you hot heads scare the crap out of me. Not just as a cyclist but to think you are part of our society in general. I wouldn't want to meet you on the road in a CAR.

[427sharpe]

It has been brought up many times that 'bicyclists have a right to the road' and I do not agree with that. An automobile driver does not have a 'right' to the road, it has been rehashed in court innumerable times that use of the road is a 'priviledge' not a 'right'. To obtain that 'priviledge' a car owner must get vehicles inspected, registered, licensed (plates) and maintain proof of financial responsibility (insurance) AND obtain and maintain a drivers license. I would say that for a bicyclist to share the priviledge of the road he should have do do the same AND be bound by the same types of laws and regulations. I would like to see bicyclists ticketed for illegal riding or riding in the street lane where a bike lane or path exists and I would like the fine to be as substantial as a car owner faces for similar acts.
Finally; yes, motorhomes a semis torque me too!! The difference is that THEY get tickets for being idiots. I see semis pulled over in the glare of the red and blue but for some reason I don't see pedal jockeys..why?

[392cobra]

I'll try to be as PC as I can.....

I have no tolerence for bicyclists anymore. They are arrogant, disobey traffic rules. Run stop signs and stop lights.
That's why I carry a sawed off broom handle to shove in their spokes.

If you want to be on two wheels on a narrow road,get a Harley so you can keep up with the traffic flow.

[Al Bockman]

Sharpe,

I used the word "rights" because that's what they're called here.

From Colorado Statutes : TITLE 42 VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC : REGULATION OF VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC : ARTICLE 4 REGULATION OF VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC : PART 14 OTHER OFFENSES : 42-4-1412. Operation of bicycles and other human-powered vehicles.

Operation of bicycles and other human-powered vehicles

1) Every person riding a bicycle shall have all of the rights and duties applicable to the driver of any other vehicle under this article, except as to special regulations in this article and except as to those provisions which by their nature can have no application. Said riders shall comply with the rules set forth in this section and section 42-4-221, and when using streets and highways within incorporated cities and towns, shall be subject to local ordinances regulating the operation of bicycles as provided in section 42-4-111.

5) Any person riding a bicycle shall ride in the right-hand lane. When being overtaken by another vehicle, such person shall ride as close to the right-hand side as practicable. Where a paved shoulder suitable for bicycle riding is present, persons operating bicycles shall ride on the paved shoulder. These provisions shall apply, except under any of the following situations:
(a) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction;
(b) When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway;
(c) When reasonably necessary to avoid hazardous conditions, including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, parked or moving vehicles, pedestrians, animals, or surface hazards.

(6)(a) Persons operating bicycles on roadways shall ride single file; except that riding no more than two abreast is permitted in the following circumstances:
(i)When riding two abreast will not impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic; or
(ii)When riding on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles.
(b) Persons riding two abreast shall ride within a single lane.

(12)(a) Any person who violates any provision of this section commits a class 2 misdemeanor traffic offense; except that section 42-2-127 shall not apply.
(b) Any person riding a bicycle who violates any provision of this article other than this section which is applicable to such a vehicle and for which a penalty is specified shall be subject to the same specified penalty as any other vehicle; except the section 42-2-127 shall not apply.

(13) Upon request, the law enforcement agency having jurisdiction shall complete a report concerning an injury or death incident that involves a bicycle on the roadways of the state, even if such accident does not involve a motor vehicle.

(I left out a few not germane to this thread.)

See full text at: http://bicyclecolo.org/page.cfm?PageID=45

Rights, not Privileges.

Wow, 392!

Are you serious? Please tell me you won't be spending your summers in Colorado like the rest of Texas does. All of your complaints about cyclists easily transfer to motorists.

How many wheels have you shoved a broom handle into? Ever hear of anger mangement? You might benefit from a class or two.

I'm done. Some of you are serious sociopaths. Please seek professional help before you kill somebody.

Al

"Lighten up, Francis." Sgt. Hulka, from the movie "Stripes"

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by Al Bockman

Ron,

When we run out of fossil fuels and bicycles become a more accepted mode of transportation, and you have to supply your own horsepower instead of buying it, remember that you should stay to the right as much as possible. Oh, and watch out for broken bottles and idiots with loud horns.
Al

Now it's clear.You're a tree hugger that listens to Al Gore.Here' a news flash,we aren't running out of fossil fuels.We have plenty.They're just not where it's PC to drill.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Al:Okay, Cobrabill, you have the biggest pair on the planet. No wonder you don't ride a bike. They'd get caught in the chain!

Thank-you at least you admitted it-you're making progress.Keep it up.

[Al Bockman]

Cobrabill,

I thought I was done, but you dragged me back in with your ad hominem attack.

Sorry, but I'm not a tree hugger. I spent 25 years in the logging/firewood business and I drive a Cobra. I just have a different outlook on life than you do.

Just out of curiousity, what caused you to quit the railroad and become a petroleum engineer?

Al

[392cobra]

Al,
Sorry to get your Peddle Pushers in a wad.

[4RE KLR]

It just burns my ass to see those MORONs on a bike in the street. They run red lights and stop signs and go through intersections without looking.

Honk my horn, bet your ass. Maybe one day when we do run out of gas the cities will impose rules on bikes like they do on cars.

[392cobra]

Originally Posted by 4RE KLR

It just burns my ass to see those MORONs on a bike in the street. They run red lights and stop signs and go through intersections without looking. Honk my horn, bet your ass. Maybe one day when we do run out of gas the cities will impose rules on bikes like they do on cars.

Speaking of those morons running red lights and stop signs.
They also create another problem when they do that.Seeing as how they aren't required to carry insurance like I am,who is suppose to repair my bumper when I flatten one of them after they run the light or sign ?

[bomelia]

Well, I am going to join Al on this one. Ain't fair of you all ganging up like this. But, I will admit that there are plenty of jerks out there, both on bikes and in cars. See them all the time. What we are really talking about here is stupid people vs conscientous people. Could be that riding with a 2x1 stuck up your butt causes brain deterioration, specially if one's brain is located in said area. I have seen threads just like this regarding stupid drivers. Throw a biker in the mix, and it seems like everybody has an opportunity to have a crap fest, since us car folk are obviously the smart folk.

Mike

[4RE KLR]

Mike
That's true. I'll admit there are a few people who actually respect the road traffic.

But they are the exception and not the rule.