Cyclists

[bomelia]

...like I said "stupid people vs conscientous people". Does not matter how many wheels they have under their arse (and pistons or lack thereof)

Al, you posed some thoughtful, and well articulated points.

Me personally? If a sidewalk is available (or bike path) I use it. I only ride on roads with wide shoulders. I never would challenge a hunk of mass 100 times my own. Thats stupid. However, I hate those basturds who swing in to the wide shoulder so as to phuk with me. They are some of the same multi-wheeled idiots I was referring to. If they hurt me and I survive it, I will end up living in their (ahem, my) new house.

Now, lets talk about stupid truck drivers...you know, the ones that pull out and block all uphill progress just so as to not lose 10 mph? Or perhaps those folks that enter onto an entrance ramp, and stop, waiting for all traffic to pass so they can pull out onto a multi-lane hiway...

Mike

[Ron61]

Mike,

A lot of good points have been made in this thread. One thing you said about people stopping on an entrance ramp really hit home. I don't know if it is still this way, but years ago when they had me working in San Jose on a problem I started to go onto the freeway which was 4 lanes wide in each direction at that point and was really ticked off at the long line of traffic stopped on the ramp until I got up to where I could see. They actually had stop lights at the freeway entrance and it was a huge fine if you never stopped. Really made it more dangerous I thought as now you are trying to get up speed from a dead stop to blend in with traffic flowing at 60/65 MPH. Hopefully they have changed this by now. And it is 10 miles from my house to Redding and I have had to follow some of the darn 18 wheelers at 50MPH because one pulls out and instead of passing drives alongside a line of six or more for the whole 10 miles until I get to where I can turn off the freeway.

Ron

[Al Bockman]

Mike,

Thanks for the help, although by some of your comments I'm not sure if you're on my side of the fence on this or not! If anybody has been riding with something up their butt we know how it got there.

Barring another personal attack, I'm done with this discussion.

What did we learn from this thread?

1. Al is very glad he does not live in Texas.
2. Manners, civility, courtesy, respect and tolerance on the roadways can be placed on the endangered list.
3. Some people who cannot be inconvenienced by others are not averse to using violence to show their displeasure.

Guys, this has been a real eye opener for me. I didn't expect this level of violence and intolerance from fellow Cobra drivers. It's a good thing that large numbers of people don't have the same intolerant attitude toward noisy, little, gas-guzzling cars without current safety devices that require special legislation to operate on public roads as some CC members have toward cyclists.

As a final gesture of understanding and good will to bridge the gap between us, if any of you ever need a character witness in a vehicular assault trial involving you hitting a cyclist, feel free to let me know.

Al

[69boss429]

After reading all of the posts on this thread I would like to share an incident that happened to me.
And,I find this incident and countless others involvieng cyclists on the roadways(at least where I live) to be common and frequently dangerous for cyclists and motorists.The arrogence of most,not all,cyclists is what's so amazing.
While traveling on a narrow country road ,in my Ford Expedition, with curves and hills,I came up on a cyclist traveling in the same direction.
He was well into my lane and I had to slow down from the 35mph speed limit to wait for a stretch I could see far enough ahead to pass.Having driven this road thousands of times I knew what was ahead and passed him several hundred yards before a stop sign,at which point I swung back into the lane and stopped.
Well,it seems the cyclist felt he didn't have to stop at the posted sign and there was not enough room to get by my stopped vehicle on the right so he proceeded to swing out to the left and try to pass while I was stopped.
As I pulled away from the stop sign he was right on my bumper yelling and showing his IQ with one hand.
The fortunate thing for him was there was no one coming the other way as it is a blind spot over a short hill before coming to the stop sign from the other direction.Yet,because I followed all legal procedures he was upset.
Sorry to be so windy,but these common practices by cyclists are what get most motorists upset.
A little toot on the horn politely asking them to move over a couple feet almost always gets the 1 finger wave from them.
Respect,they need to earn it !

[392cobra]

Al,
I don't ride a pedal bike,I do ride a Harley though.

You can be sure we both have some of the same problems with cagers (cars/trucks).
Pulling out in front of us,cutting us off,throwing crap out the window in our paths,trying to "share" the same lane we are in,etc.,etc.. Generally being invisible to them.

So I ride like I'm invisible.

So relax,I was just having fun yanking your chain.

[4RE KLR]

Al
There is no personal attack on anyone. I think the whole of drivers in general are tired of the bikers pretending they own the road and everyone else is SUPPOSED to be inconvenienced by them. It is a mentality issue we are dealing with here. While you may not see these issues because you are keen on your surroundings while on your bike, I assure you that you are the exception and not the rule.

Mike made a very good point, that basically there is an ass somewhere right now driving something. Two wheels four wheels or eighteen wheels. We all know that. Good point Mike!

I supposed when we see these people we are just aggravated by the fact that the overwhelming majority of them have no respect for the road rules that we as motor vehicle drivers have to follow.

I will also admit it really isn't fair to lump everyone who enjoys a passion, no matter what it is, into the same group. See religion in Websters. I think that people in general would be more apt to accept these "road hogs" if they were bound by some sort of set of rules. You and I both know the biking community has been fighting that for many years.

Take for instance this example.
I am driving in rush hour traffic in my F250. Bumper to bumper traffic everywhere. Everyone stopped at a red light just trying to get home. Myself being the first one up to the red light drive right past a police officer sitting stopped at the light, I of course drive right through it. I do not have my seat belt on as it is "uncomfortable". I have not registered the vehicle since it was new, because it isn't fair that I have to pay taxes every year when I paid sales taxes when I bough it. My truck also is not inspected, has bald tires, smokes up and pollutes the whole intersection. Now while in the intersection two drivers have a terrible wreck trying to stop because I have run the red light. Unfortunately three people are killed in the wrecks. I of course could care less as I "own the road" and keep going. Once I get across the intersection I drive 2.3 MPH in the middle of the road. When someone tries to pass me I get over even farther in the middle of the road. Heck, I am almost in the turning lane weaving back and forth across the road to make sure no one can get around me. There is a bridge coming so I feel for my own safety I must get out and push my truck across the bridge so I won't fall off of the bridge. Whew, I made it. I them get back in the truck and drive my regular speed of 2.3 MPH.


Now, I will also admit that is a bit extreme but stay with me here. Do you think the police office at the red light would give me a ticket?

Now substitute the F250 for the majority of people on bicycles on the public roads.

That is why people are pissed off at bikers today. This is a true story that happened around me in Keller, Texas. Do you think the bicycler got a ticket for impeding traffic, running a red light, causing an accident where three people, two of them children lost their lives? No sir, he went on his merry way.

Everything above is true. Except of course bicycles do not have to meet the same requirements that vehicles do and they of course cannot smoke or burn oil as a worn out automobile would.

Again, I would like to make clear this isn't a personal attack on anyone. It is a heated topic that is going on in most every city around the country. It is in places like Club Cobra that we can voice our issue with our fellow brotherin and hopefully come to a reasonable solution to a given problem.

[Al Bockman]

The "personal attack" comment was by the gentleman referring to me as a tree hugger who listens to Al Gore. Since I spent so much time in the logging/firewood business, chances are I've killed a lot more trees than he has.

What are "pedal pushers"? I wear cycling shorts. No underwear, just a pad to keep the seams from chafing. Proper attire for the activity.

I know there are a lot of a$$holes out there on bikes, but there are also a lot of them in cars or just walking down the street. I don't feel it necessary for me to defend anything any cyclist has ever done. Sometimes even I get mad at them! I'm still waiting for one of you to tell me that you were driving yesterday and actually saw a cyclist obeying the law. Surely there was one cyclist somewhere doing that!

The cyclist in the fatal accident scenario should have been ticketed. He broke the law. His not being ticketed was the cop's fault. I'm sure a lot of motorists happily drive away from accidents they caused, too.

BTW, it's very difficult to ride a bicycle at 2.3 mph. Surely he was going a little bit faster than that.

Maybe it's a perception problem. A lot of people use words like "most" or "the majority of" in this thread. In Colorado, that doesn't seem to apply. Maybe cyclists are more courteous here. "Some" and "a lot of", sure. You probably don't notice the cyclists obeying the rules, just like you don't notice the motorists doing the same.

Education is the answer. Please let me tell you some things from a cyclist's perspective.

If a cyclist is doing something you don't like and you think honking is the answer, please do it well beforehand. Usually they can hear your vehicle coming. If you must honk, please do it 3 or 4 seconds BEFORE you get to them. They will hear it and have a chance to react. If you wait until you're right behind them, you will startle the h*ll out of them, possibly causing them to swerve into your path. That is usually why cyclists give the "one finger salute" when honked at. If you wanted to scare them, mission accomplished! Anybody here like to be startled? It does get the adrenalin flowing, though. I was hit with a Big Gulp thrown by a teenaged passenger in a car many years ago. They were really surprised to see how fast I could ride. Too bad the light changed just as they got to the intersection.

I'm sure some cyclists think they "own the road". but so do a lot of motorists. Look back at what we learned in kindergarten and share. If they are obeying traffic laws, please be tolerant and accept that they are allowed to be on the road. If you don't like the laws, see your legislators and get the laws changed. If they are breaking the law, contact law enforcement.

Yeah, cyclists are slower than motor vehicles. You may come around a blind corner and encounter one. But, if you can't get stopped before you hit them, it's your fault. You need to be in control of your vehicle. What if you came around that same corner and a rock, herd of deer, broken down car, or child retrieving a ball was in the road? Would you blame them?

Finally, just slow down, relax and enjoy the world. Do you run over little old ladies with your grocery cart because they aren't moving fast enough for you?

We're all fortunate to have the toys we have. Other people enjoy different toys. Please be tolerant and let them.

Al

[bomelia]

Al, don't get all wadded up. These guys have been pretty good in here. Personal attacks? Not even close (though it might feel like it to lounge newbie). If you wanna see personal attacks, search for all the threads closed by Jamo (near election time ). Here are some subjects that can get you slammed:

Dems vs Repubs
Jews vs Arabs
Bush vs Kerry (or any other liberal DF)
Big block vs small block
Gay rights
Iraq War
War on Terror
Socialized medicine
Gloabal Warming
The French (FTF)
Anything resembling stengun or cheddar cheese...

Try one and see for yourself.

Mike

[Al Bockman]

Mike,

Granted I don't post a lot, but I have been around here for five years. I know how heated some discussions can get. I'm just trying to keep the discussion on topic without the personal digs. It's not helpful to bring out the name-calling, pedal pusher, in a wad type comments. It might be fun, but not helpful.

Maybe it's my fault for trying to discuss this at an adult level. Sorry.

Al

[392cobra]

Al,
You do get your panties in a twist rather easily.

Do you wear one of those nifty aerodynamic helmets with the cycling shorts ?

btw - pedal pushers are girl's pants.

[GlynMeek]

Al...I know you claimed to 'get' the English sense of humor, but truly, I think you need to lighten up a bit here and NOT take everyone so literally.

Some examples…

Ferrari Killer's comment about "2.3 miles an hour" was NOT meant to be taken literally, once again, merely a little hyperbole to illustrate a point, so you didn’t need to question that.

Jeremy Clarkson’s original comment, that appears to have started all your discomfort, of “Run them down to prove them wrong”, was NOT meant to encourage people to mindlessly kill people for the sheer sport of it, but merely to illustrate a frustration with a number of cyclists. Please don’t criticize my use of the generalized quantitative expression ‘a number’ here, either, as I have NO idea what the exact percentage is that are numbnuts!

I have no doubt that Cobrabill typed “You're a tree hugger”, with a smile on his face, not a frown, so I don’t think THAT was meant as an offense either.

My original comment of “All cyclists must pay a $50 per year road tax before they are allowed on ANY roads” was not meant to literally mean $50, although I do feel they should pay SOMETHING to drive on the roads, $50, $10, I don’t know yet, but I AM serious in that I think they should pay SOMETHING for the privilege. My thanks for your considered inclusion of the Laws from the State of Colorado where they DO indeed state that it is a ‘right’, but personally, I do NOT agree that it is a ‘right’ in the traditional sense of the word, and my guess is that is not what is indicated by the text either. Of course, we could (and knowing THIS forum, probably WILL…J ) argue THAT semantic point ad absurdam…

You also questioned one of my points by asking “I don't quite understand how cyclists "polute" the environment, though.” Once again, hyperbole and sarcasm on my part (god forbid I should attempt ‘irony’!!) often an effective way of getting across a point, and is NOT meant to be taken literally.

I certainly do NOT mean that we should go out and randomly (or even specifically!) mow down cyclists, I just think we are at a point where there needs to be some control and responsibility on behalf of an increasingly egotistical group (NO Al, not ALL of them!!!!). I can even boast that “some of my best friends are cyclists”…lol. (Al, THAT was meant as a joke, OK?)

Al, this is NOT a personal attack on you by any of us, but you DO seem to be taking some of people’s comments just a little too literally. You keep encouraging everyone to “lighten up”, and Al, I would encourage the same, please. Don’t take this so personally and, as a cyclist, feel you have to defend all the cyclists out there, just as none of us have to defend the idiot drivers out there either!

[Ron61]

Al,

None of these comments have been meant as a personal attack on you. If I wanted to I could take your above comment, "Maybe it's my fault for trying to discuss this at an adult level. Sorry." as a personal attack telling me that I am unable to communicate at an adult level, but I know it wasn't meant as that. The Tree Hugger comment has been used so often most of us don't even pay much attention to it. And most had stated that there are idiots driving vehicles just as there are riding bicycles, but fortunately neither of those groups make up the majority. It is like everything else. A few bad examples and everyone in whatever field or situation is lumped in with them and this is an unfortunate fact of life.


Ron

[imagine2frolic]

As far as the cyclist that lost his bike on Hiway 1? I was not justifying his bike being thrown off the cliff. I was relaying a story of arrogance by this cyclist. He could have let people pass at anytime.

I for 3 years used a bike from the East Bay Hills to San Francisco as my only transportation including the Bart train. I witnessed some very stupid behaviour by cars, and bicyclist both.

Sorry that some people's comments got you mad, but you know as well as everyone else knows. There are assholes in every walk of life. The thing in life is trying to avoid getting their stench on yourself. Unfortunately the assholes on bicycles got picked on this particular time.

[Al Bockman]

By "personal attack" I mean directing comments at me, instead of the topic we're discussing. Enough already. Attack my argument, not me. Unless you've run out of things to say. Contrary to what some of you may believe, I am not thin-skinned at all. I'm not here to playfully call other people names. Would a "redneck" be offended if I called him "redneck"? Maybe not, but doing so would foster no good will, would it?

When people start out advocating bodily harm, it is hard to separate the serious from the funny. I was under the impression this was a serious problem. My mistake.

Want some levity? Here goes:

Panties? Didn't you read my post? No underwear! Twisted panties can be uncomfortable, though. How do you cope with yours?

No aerodynamic helmet, but I do wear a helmet when I ride. It comes in real handy in the event of a crash. Also keeps the sun off my head.

Pedal pushers? Oh, yeah, like the pants my mother wore back in the 1950's.

I agree. Everybody (including me) should lighten up! So... instead of drinking that beer tonight, just lie back and spark up a fatty! And no, that doesn't mean making a pass at your wife.

How's that?

Al

[392cobra]

Gee Al,
Don't go an have a stroke on us.

[Ron61]

Fred,

Quit agitating and go play with Frenchy for a while.

Ron

[4RE KLR]

Well now that we all know where everyone stands.....

Al,
Since this thread is seemingly affected you the most. I ask you one question. If you are aware of the problems that we are all experiencing. How do we as a unified group go about fixing it.

Please try not to be one sided. I think if you look at the post above from a different perspective, I think you will see that an olive branch has been handed out more than once.

We are not barbarians. How do we fix this? What do you suggest is imposed on your passion that will save your fellow riders lives?

[4RE KLR]

Sorry. It posted three times for some reason

[4RE KLR]

HMMM

This was another copy of the same post for some reason. I guess I was too quick on the "post" LOL

[427sharpe]

From the TxDOT handbook:

Drivers should always be prepared to yield the right-of-way to bicyclists. Bicyclists often disregard the rules of the road. Over 70 percent of collisions between motor vehicles and bicyclists are the bicyclists' fault.