Cyclists

[GlynMeek]

I don't know how many of you are familiar with Jeremy Clarkson, who is the obnoxious (but I LOVE him!!!) TV journalist who runs the BBC TV show 'Top Gear', and is an exotic car NUT, but he has a "Highway Code" on cyclists which goes something like this...

"Trespassers in the motorcars domain, they do not pay road tax and therefore have no right to be on the road, some of them even believe they are going fast enough to not be an obstruction. Run them down to prove them wrong."

Now, I have to agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment, especially here in "Lance Armstrong's town". These people are EVERYWHERE in their yellow spandex outfits, fingerless gloves, goofy looking helmets, poofy little shoes, cluttering up the road, slowing down traffic and generally poluting the environment for us long suffering motorists. I am preparing a short brief for the Mayor of Austin, and eventually the Governor of Texas to propose the following...

1) All cyclists must pay a $50 per year road tax before they are allowed on ANY roads
2) They must pay to have their bicycles 'inspected' once a year at specially designated "CIP" locations (Cycle Inspection Posts). $10 inspection fee
3) They must get insurance before they are allowed on the roads. Insurance will vary depending on the age and experience and cycling record of said cyclist. Minimum annual charge of $100
4) They must buy a specially engineered bracket ($15) to display their inspection stickers and their road tax licenses

Just think of the increased tax revenue which would perhaps a) help pay for better roads and b) reduce the road fees WE innocent motorists have to pay.

The insurance companies would get more revenues (like they NEED that????) and perhaps reduce the insurance costs of us innocent motorists.

We could increase employment with all the mindless bureaucrats needed to enforce the new regulations.

I see this as a complete win-win situation here...either that, or cyclists should be declared 'fair game', and we should be permitted to at least 'clip' them with a front fender on passing, just to serve them right!

Why is it that they don't at least have to pay road tax...they USE the roads don't they????



Glyn

[trularin]

Imagine if you would; if such a proposal were to be approved, the state would be obligated to provide for cyclists on all roads. Whether it be a side road, paved, or added yardage for them to peddle along side traffic, they paid the tax, they would be entitled.

Possibly an effort to provide a side road on only the heavier traveled roads would be an alternative where the cyclists can travel at their own pace...away from car/truck traffic.

The expense would kill this effort in most cases. Most likely, an effort from cyclists as the roads are improved to add the side pathes, would be easier to put forward.

[427sharpe]

Glyn;
We have the same trouble in DFW. As a rule I like to travel some of the backroads to get home and more times than I can count I have crested a hill or come out of a blind turn to see a pack of these idiots fanned out across the ENTIRE roadway. Sooner or later, somebody is going to get killed and I doubt it is going to be the guy in the car/truck. I especially adore the ones who form a pack of 30 or so and get on narrow 2 lane roads so that they can block traffic for MILES behind them in a no pass zone. In our area we have built bike specific paths and 'rideways' for these guys that are almost always vacant while the FM's and country roads are cluttered. Maybe that arse Clarkson has a point......

[BeanCounter]

He's got my vote.

[imagine2frolic]

If you have ever driven hiway1 in Northern Ca. You will be able to appreciate this. Single bicycle riding between S.F. & Mendicino somewhere. The road is full of switchbacks, blindspots, hills, etc. etc. There is a long line of cars crawling along, and the source of this was a bicyclist with no courtesy.

One man became a local hero for a short time. He was driving a large delivery truck with a stick. When he finally got past the bicyclist he pulled over. Got out of the truck, knocked the guy off the bike, and then threw the bike over the cliff. I understand he was honked at, and cheered for a long distance as traffic began to move along.

[Scott S]

There is a huge bicycle event coming this weekend on the back roads near my home here in rural Oregon. I live in grass seed country and it is now harvest time with dozens of combines traveling from field to field. The farmers here get a real kick out of taking up all the road and then some during the races.

Scott S

[GlynMeek]

427sharpe...YES, I hadn't even thought about the damn 'bike paths' and rideways. They are all over the place down here as well, and you think they'd allow cars on them, at least at weekends, but "OH NO"...cyclists ONLY.

More of my tax dollars at work building useless paths to nowhere so a bunch of "Tour de France wannabees" can pursue their hobby at MY expense!!!!! Perhaps we should ask the local councils to build "Cobra only" lanes on the freeways...hmmm...now THERE'S AN IDEA...

ROFL...so heartening to see other curmudgeons out there who agree with me...ah, time for a long cold beer to celebrate...

[Ron61]

About a year ago they spent several million dollars taking away two of the 4 lanes on the heaviest traveled Boulevard here that goes over to Shasta Dam and putting in sidewalks and a bicycle lane. The sidewalks are a joke as you may as well put them along I-5, not one time have I seen one of our many bicyclists in the bicycle lane, they still ride in the single remaining car lane. And the police will cite any car that pulls into the bicycle lane to get past one of these idiots, but not say a word to the bicyclist.

Ron

[63mercury]

maybe some hi-pressure water jets on the front of the cars would help get the bikes out of the way when they discover they are getting wet they would pull off to see what is going on. Maybe some real smelly water would work best.

[Scott S]

Originally Posted by 63mercury

Maybe some real smelly water would work best.

With purple indicator dye added to it that way you would know them in the grocery store.

Scott S

[Wayne Maybury]

I don't know about where you live, but up here I have never seen a cyclist ever obey any rules of the road. They never stop at stop signs or red lights unless they are going to get mowed down by the cars. Normally they just breeze right through like the signs aren't there. They drive on either side of the road, the wrong way on one-way streets, on side walks, etc. Then they get pissed when a driver opens the door on his parked car just as they are about to go flying by.

Wayne

[Al Bockman]

Not so fast,Glyn. Not everybody here agrees with you.

Why doesn't everybody just take a deep breath and calm down?

I have 28,000 miles on my Cobra and 21,000 on my road bike. I have encountered my share of "the road belongs to me" crowd. I'll address some of these issues one by one.

"Trespassers in the motorcars domain, they do not pay road tax and therefore have no right to be on the road, some of them even believe they are going fast enough to not be an obstruction. Run them down to prove them wrong."

No need to kill anybody. How could you advocate that? Feeling invincible in your vehicle? Contrary to what you may think, I do pay road taxes. I pay every time I buy gasoline.

"Now, I have to agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment, especially here in "Lance Armstrong's town". These people are EVERYWHERE in their yellow spandex outfits, fingerless gloves, goofy looking helmets, poofy little shoes, cluttering up the road, slowing down traffic and generally poluting the environment for us long suffereing motorists. I am preparing a short brief for the Mayor of Austin, and eventually the Governor of Texas to propose the following..."

No need to make fun of the clothing and equipment worn by cyclists. Just the proper attire for the activity, much like driving shoes, driving suits and helmets for a track day in the Cobra. I don't quite understand how cyclists "polute" the environment, though.

"1) All cyclists must pay a $50 per year road tax before they are allowed on ANY roads
2) They must pay to have their bicycles 'inspected' once a year at specially designated "CIP" locations (Cycle Inspection Posts). $10 inspection fee
3) They must get insurance before they are allowed on the roads. Insurance will vary depending on the age and experience and cycling record of said cyclist. Minimum annual charge of $100
4) They must buy a specially engineered bracket ($15) to display their inspection stickers and their road tax licenses"

If cyclists do all of that and can then ride ANYWHERE on ANY road, would you quit complaining? I doubt it.

"Just think of the increased tax revenue which would perhaps a) help pay for better roads and b) reduce the road fees WE innocent motorists have to pay.

The insurance companies would get more revenues (like they NEED that????) and perhaps reduce the insurance costs of us innocent motorists."

Innocent of what, "running them down?"

"We could increase employment with all the mindless bureaucrats needed to enforce the new regulations.

I see this as a complete win-win situation here...either that, or cyclists should be declared 'fair game', and we should be permitted to at least 'clip' them with a front fender on passing, just to serve them right!"

How long have you been a sociopath?

"Why is it that they don't at least have to pay road tax...they USE the roads don't they????"

How about pedestrians? Don't they use the road whenever they cross the street? How much are you willing to pay to display your "Walk on the Pavement " license, and where are you going to display YOUR stickers? Should pedestrians pay extra insurance, too?

" "

The smiley doesn't mask your resentment.

"Glyn"

Everybody pays a lot of tax money for things from which they get no benefit. Do all of you guys complain about that, too?

The guy who assaulted the cyclist and threw his bike off the cliff doesn't deserve cheers and applause, he deserves a stretch in San Quentin.

As far as the complaints about cyclists breaking traffic laws, has anybody here ever broken a traffic law? If so, pot, kettle, black. I obey the laws as much as anybody else. When I ride in the country and see cars rolling through stop signs at 20 MPH, should I feel guilty about rolling through at 10? Maybe you guys would be happier if we all bought combines and drove slowly. Or motorhomes! I'd bet you're not happy about a fully licensed and insured motorhome using "your" road, either. Best solution - buy your own road and keep everybody off of it. If you don't have the money, you'll just have to share. Sorry...

Wayne, NEVER? You just said they don't stop unless they are going to be mowed down. That shoots your "never" argument down, doesn't it? Having a car door open in your path can be a very dangerous situation, but you don't think about that in your car, though. How about if somebody opened their door when you're passing in your Cobra? Would that be okay? How about if you were on a motorcycle?

I wish I could say I was surprised about all the violent, foaming-at-the-mouth comments here, but I'm not.

Lighten up and please give the cyclists some room. It takes bigger cojones to get passed by a semi doing 60 mph only 2 feet from your elbow than anything you'll probably ever do.

Al

[Wayne Maybury]

Al

Maybe I didn't explain what I meant clearly. I can't speak for people in other towns but in the area of greater Montreal, cyclists virtually never stop at a stop sign or red light unless they can't cross due to on-coming (cross) traffic. I think that this is a clear statement.

I just saw (not more than 10 minutes ago) 3 teenagers going the wrong way (driving on the left side) of a divided secondary highway. They blew right through a red light jumped onto the left hand sidewalk and blew through another red light narrowly missing a car that was making a legal left hand turn. The driver never saw the kids as they were still on the wrong side of the road AND GOING THROUGH A RED LIGHT. Surely you cannot condone this behavior.

I didn't state that anyone should be shot or killed or anything else, I just stated that I am fed up with the reckless behavior of the vast majority of cyclists around where I live. As far as the car door thing goes, many times the cyclists are going the wrong way on a one way street, are driving on the wrong side of the road, or are weaving through traffic so the motorist has no idea that he may be opening his/her door when a cyclist is near by. I don't think that many people will purposely open their car door in front of a cyclist just for the fun of it.

I think that bicycles are a great form of transportation but I would like the cyclists to understand that the rules of the road apply to them as well as motor vehicles.

Wayne

[Ron61]

Al,

I don't resent cyclists, just the way they do here. And here they pay no type of fees, have no inspections, and ride all over the roads. In fact I stopped completely one day in the main street because a dam cyclist was coming up the middle of my lane right at me. Cars behind me almost rear ended me and the cyclist ran into my front bumper so hard he bent the forks on the bicycle. I would gladly have thrown him and his bicycle off a cliff. And I have yet to see one of them riding in the bicycle lane along the Boulevard here. And I don't care what they pay if they pay at all, they have no business on any freeway. Quote "If cyclists do all of that and can then ride ANYWHERE on ANY road, would you quit complaining?" He might but I won't and I ride a bicycle but not on busy streets and I stay as far away from cars as I can. And they do string out across both lanes of the road and won't move unless a patrol car comes by. If you think I have a thing in for cyclists you are correct. Those A** Hole* give the ones that do obey the law a bad name and they get lumped in with the jerks. You must live in a one of a kind place if they never do any of the things mentioned in the prior posts.

Ron

[Al Bockman]

First off, let me apologize for the way my response was put together. Some of you thought my wrath was directed at you when it wasn't.

All of the activities described that are illegal are up to the police to handle. Rest assured that somebody, somewhere has probably said something about the "vast majority" (what percentage does it take to constitute a "vast majority", anyway?) of Cobras (insert traffic offense here), too.

Wayne: I don't condone anybody doing what you described. In Colorado a cyclist has the same rights an reponsibilities as a motorist, including obeying traffic laws. I know people who have received tickets because they broke the law. Nothing wrong with that. I also see a lot of automobiles break the law (myself included). That's what the cops are for. Don't lump all cyclists in together. The one or two idiots doing something to p*ss you off are the ones you're going to remember, not the cyclists behaving themselves. What some cyclists do in urban areas scares the h*ll out me, too.

Have I ever ran a red light on by bicycle? Only when nobody was around and I knew the paltry amount of steel (axles, bottom bracket and fasteners) on my bike wouldn't trip the magnetic loop so the light would change. Am I supposed to sit there for ten minutes waiting for a car to show up going the same direction? I have no desire to get creamed by a car and ride accordingly.

Ron: The fees remark was more directed to the esteemed Texan who was going to write the letter to the mayor and governor. In Colorado, we don't pay fees, either. My point about the "any road" was that his argument that cyclists DON"T pay could open up a whole new can of worms if they did pay. Other than interstate highways, which they keep us off now, how could they keep us off? We've paid our fees! Now we're entitled to be there, just like cars!

If I had my $4,000 road bike stolen, think the police would have any interest in looking for it? Why not? They look for stolen cars! What's the difference? I paid my fees!

I've heard the fee argument before. He should be careful what he asks for. He may get it.

We also have bike paths here. Cyclists complain about the roller bladers, skateboarders, joggers, baby strollers, and just-walking-along-with-their-heads-up-their-a$$ types on the bike paths just like motorists complain about bikes on the roads. Another problem with bike paths is that they don't always go where you want to go.

We have our share of A** Hole* here, too. What doesn't help is people thinking they should enforce their own brand of justice to cyclists. But, seriously, how would you feel if you did run over a cyclist? What if the legal system decided you were at fault? Ready to have your life changed that much, just because he was "infringing" on your turf?

Oh yeah, and to all the hot-heads that posted to this thread threatening violence towards cyclists, if you ever do assault or run over a cyclist, be sure and show this thread to the judge at your sentencing hearing. He'd probably love to read it.

Al

[Wayne Maybury]

Al

It looks like this thread has struck a nerve with you. Sorry about that and I certainly would not hurt any of them no matter how they bug me. I think that you would be amazed at how people ride bikes up here. It seems that kids as young as 5 or 6 years old have learned that they do not have to obey any traffic rules.

I travel a lot throughout Canada and the US on business and I am amazed at how the majority of cyclists in other major cities actually stop for red lights (note that I haven't been to NYC or LA lately ). It simply does not happen here unless the cyclist cannot get through without getting run down. I repeat that up here, virtually all cyclists run right through red lights with the worst being bicycle courriers and those packs of guys that seem to think that they are training for the Tour de France.

Wayne

[Sharroll Celby]

Yes, the bicyclist have the right to be on the road, BUT I dont think they should be impeding traffic on narrow, two-lane roads by riding WAY slower than the speed limit. I also think that bicyclists should PULL OVER and let faster traffic pass them.

[GlynMeek]

Al...I appreciate the time it took to organize your response, pointing out your perceived errors of each section of my curmudgeonly rant, and I must now apologize for putting you through that unnecessary stretch of imagination.

I am English by birth!

...our national sense of humor is 'sarcasm', and even though I have lived in this MAGIC country for almost 30 years, obtained citizenship and think it the best in the world, I truly forget that most Americans don't really get sarcasm.

Jeremy Clarkson is also English, and is a MASTER when it comes to sarcasm. So, I never took what he said as verbatim on his true feelings (and NEVER for one moment thought anyone else would either!), but as a humorous aside, perhaps even just a little 'tongue in cheek'. I grudgingly admit that I embellished the sarcasm, perhaps to an extreme (although with sarcasm that would seem redundant!) and I therefore apologize for the confusion that I obviously caused you!!!!!

With regards to your closing comments where you encourage some of us to "lighten up...", perhaps you have been "hoist by your own petard" here?

Glyn

PS Al, just to avoid any more confusion for you, the smiley was supposed to be a visual clue that this was just a joke, NOT a "mask to cover my resentment"...once again, obviously my fault for being too subtle. I shall try harder next time!

PPS Sharroll...you state that "yes, cyclists have a right to be on the road", may I ask "Why?" What gives them that right?

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by Al Bockman

"

It takes bigger cojones to get passed by a semi doing 60 mph only 2 feet from your elbow than anything you'll probably ever do.
Al

Really?Try hanging off a box car at 0200hrs 150 miles from any city and have a 8000 ft,6000 ton freight train go by 10 feet from you at 75mph,makes your ride seem like your were sitting in your living room.

This is verbatim form the Az.traffic law manual:

A.a person riding a bicycle on a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then exisiting shall ride AS CLOSE AS PRACTIBLE to the right-hand curb or edge of roadway.

4B-Persons riding bicyles on a roadway shall NOT RIDE MORE THAN 2 ABREAST except on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use by bicycles.

Obviously,you pedal-yer-ass types don't follow the rules.So what's your solution-AL?

Bicyclists are one of the reason i installed locomotive horns on my truck.Turns them pretty "yellow spandex shorts"brown.

[427sharpe]

Originally Posted by Al Bockman
"

It takes bigger cojones to get passed by a semi doing 60 mph only 2 feet from your elbow than anything you'll probably ever do.
Al

Al;
Have you ever been targeted by a SAM while flying over hostile air space thousands of miles from home? Ever landed on a carrier at night in black out battle conditions? I stand by my observations. Here in DFW we have built numerous paths and lanes FOR bicycles that are ignored while bikes ride down the street. Often BETWEEN lanes of stopped or slow cars, illegal turns against traffic and so on. It doesn't take 'cajones' to have a semi go by at 60 at your elbow. It takes stupidity. It also takes stupidity to ride in a pack fanned out over roads covered in blind turns with a 40-50 MPH speed limit seemingly oblivious to the danger wrought by a mass of steel running in the opposite direction. Climb off the soap box and get on the bike trail.