Israelis Bomb Nuke Site???

[BeanCounter]

Ah Steve,

So are the deeds (whatever they were back then) from 79AD less legit than the Pali's? What makes the Palestinians so special???

Let me tell you what makes the Jews special. They are more of a friend to us than the Palestinians. Their mothers don't teach their children to strap on bomb belts and kill innocent women and children. They don't cheer when crazys fly planes into buildings and kill innocent civilians. They indulge in self defense rather than offensive operations. You know, little things like that. On the relative scale I'll take the Jews over the Palestinians. Even their own people kicked them out (see Jordan for the history).

PS I notice you haven't given your home back to the Indians. Do I sense hypocrit here????

[VRM]

Bernie,
The Israelis have plenty of experience with bombing busses, sniping innocents, and so on. They did it before the Arabs did. The Arabs learned that pathetic game from the Israelis.

I don't want friends like that. I am sick of the 'Israelis can do no wrong' attitude. Israel has done some pretty horrible things at the expense of others in order to get what it wants. I have no interest in seeing our tax dollars supporting ANY government that pulls that kind of crap. You are obviously willing to look the other way when Israel does it, but when the Arabs do it you scream 'terrorist'. That is being a hypocrite.

And actually, the Jews had claim to large chunks of property in Spain before Christians messed it up for them. That claim is about a thousand years more recent. Maybe that should be given to them as well.

Steve

[Roscoe]

Here is the deed of the Jews

[WildBill3]

And I will Bless those, that bless you(meaning Isreal)and Curse those who Curse you ..God. I know the side I want to be on.Long live the star of Daivid.WB3 ps.I wouldnt want to get on his bad side.

[Roscoe]

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee. "Ezekiel 25:17"

[BeanCounter]

Steve, Steve, Steve,

Always taking the side of the Arabs, but sadly always distorting history. Maybe you should read up concerning the riots of 1929 which might give you an idea of why Haganah and later Irgun came into being. Now they themselves at times pushed the limits of terrorism but we're not talking almost 100 years ago we're talking now. Your defense of Arab conduct versus Jewish conduct, shall we say requires a "suspension of disbelief". And to do so in relative terms of todays conduct smacks of anti-semitism. You defend a people who have killed 3,000 on our own soil, who killed 240 some odd Marines in Lebanon, who bomb our embassies and have commited untold number of other attacks on us with the friendship the Israelis have shown us. Your relativism is sadly lacking. Somewhere it has to stop. For you it seems it will only be when the last Jew is pushed into the sea.

[VRM]

Roscoe,
I was wondering when someone would use the Bible as a reference. Show me where in the Bible it mentions anything specific about who owns what bit of land (i'd even be willing to spot you a temple ot two). Now trace it down through 2000 years and tell me specifically who should get it.
Tracing Aztec land would be about as simple. The Bible is NOT a deed. It is, at best, an loosly organised history of a rather large area. You would probably have better luck tracing ownership through Roman records.

Bernie,
The Haganah predates the Arab riots of 1929. Get your dates straight.
The Arabs are doing exactly what you or I would do in the face of overwhelming firepower; they would fight back in the manner that they are able in order to protect what they think is theirs. There is no distortion of history from my end - I do look at the entire picture that you are not seeing because you only listen to the Israeli propaganda. Both sides have extensive propaganda - but the Israeli version is much more effective in the US. Do you ever wonder why Israel has one of the most powerful lobby groups in the US? The Arabs were there for nearly 2000 years. The Arabs have a longer and more recent claim to the land. Displacing them would cause more problems (and it has) than it is worth.

Your defense of the Israelis is a direct contradiction to the values of American property rights. The Jews could not hold on to their land 2000 years ago (like the Navaho 100 years ago). There is nothing that gives them the right to have it back at someone elses expense now. Still, given the persecution that they have endured, it would make sense to find them some land that they would have ultimate control of. But if you think that giving them land that belongs to someone else is a good idea then you are an idiot. What do you think those people on that land are going to do? They are NOT going to think it is a good idea, and most people will fight for it. Mike indicated that he would fight for what is his - I know I would - I suspect that you would as well. Land is life in many cultures - why would the Arabs be any different?

As far as me being anti-Semitic - As I told Evan a year or so ago, let me tell you exactly where I stand on that before you continue to make an ass of yourself with unfounded accusations; I dated a Jewish woman for 3 years, and might have married her had her parents not been upset that I was goy. Look up the definition - there are a variety of different meanings - some are not complimentary, and can often be interpreted as very racist. One of my best friends (and also the guy who officiated at the wedding ceremony for me and my wife) is Jewish. We have also participated in Hanukkah celebrations with them and their daughters (who we are god-parents to...go figure...). My best friend of the last 20 years is also Jewish, though non-practising. I could go on for another 5 or 6 people in my immediate circle, but I won't bore you with that.

You consider me potentially anti-Semitic because you are unable to separate being Jewish from the state of Israel. I would defend any of their religious beliefs with my life, but I will not defend the State of Israel with even a fingernail.

BTW, I suggest you read the Seven Pillars of Wisdom. It's a lot to chew on, but it is worth it.

Steve

[BeanCounter]

Wow Steve, I know a Jew too, some of my best friends are Jews.

"The Jews could not hold on to their land 2000 years ago (like the Navaho 100 years ago)."


Well by golly they're holding it now aren't they? More power to them. And as long as other Arab states flood the region with weapons and hatred they can use my money to offset that injustice by helping the Israeli's.

And maybe just maybe that girls parents were right.
You probably defend your Pali buddies every time a Jewish child is killed. What a creep.

[VRM]

Bernie,
It is a terrible thing that the Palestinians and other Arabs have killed 118 Israeli kids since September of 2000.

It is a horrible thing, and I do not defend the Arabs for that.

It's too bad that the deaths of 952 Arab kids during the same period means nothing to you. I'm sure you can figure out some way to blame the victims, rather than the Israelis who killed them.

Steve

[BeanCounter]

Steve,

Thank you for expressing some sympathy for the kids. I'm relieved that there is some humanity in you.

Yes, I feel for the Arab kids (I don't know where you got your numbers but if it's even one then that's one child too many). There are undoubtedly some instances of murder but remember that the people who blow up the Israeli's deliberately go out looking to kill civilians. I don't believe that is the intent of the Israeli army when they are fighting people who hide amongst the general population, and in many instances are being protected by them. Women who shield gunmen while there is a firefight etc. Individual instances are one thing, general intent is another. I think it's patently clear that the Palestinians utmost intent is to set out to kill Israeli children. I don't believe that to be the case on the part of the Israelis. I don't think Sally took into account that there are Palestinian mothers who actively train their children to be terrorists. I can cite you more than a few examples with pictures if you care to dispute that.

I've read Seven Pillars long ago as well as many other books concerning Lawrence.

I know many believe that this won't end until there is a Palestinian homeland. I believe that if that happens that homeland will only serve as a staging ground for further attacks. It will never end so I'm all for letting the Israelis take off the gloves. Only overwhelming victory will ever allow there to be some semblance of peace (see WWII).

[Roscoe]

"The Jews could not hold on to their land 2000 years ago (like the Navaho 100 years ago)."

I know....Let's give them casinos......

Look, the Pali's have turned down all offers for a homeland and to live peacefully together. They don't want a homeland, they want to drive the Jews into the sea. Not my opinion but, rather, their words.

[Excaliber]

Interesting that the Arabs allied themselves with Hitler, met with him, consolidated their plan and called upon their people (Arabs) to kill the Jews in the name of God and Honor. While Hilter is gone, the Arab mission continues to this day.

Israel had no choice then and has no choice now but to protect themselves from ASSURED destruction by the Arab population. We are finding ouselves in much the same position as Israel, Hitler lives on...

[REAL 1]

Hey Steve/VRM: Let me start by saying that I am a racist. Proud of it. I'm a racist against radical arabs and islamists who hate jews, deny the holocost and deny the right of the jews to their country Israel.

I am a racist against radical arabs and islamist who hate jews because they are jews. I am a racist against arabs and islamists who kill jews because they are taught by the koran to do so and taught from nursery school onward that it is the right thing to do.

I am a racist against antisemites. You yourself have demonstrated why the jewish parents of your exgirl friend had suspicions of those who are not jewish and didn't want her to marry a goy. My congratulations to them for having YOU pegged. Unfortunately too many "goys", which is just a hebrew term for identifying someone who is'nt jewish are like you. Anti jewish and anitsemetic. Fortunately also there are many non jews who aren't like you and see the facts and the reality. Thank GOD.

Why do I say you appear and sound anti semetic? Not because you wish to criticize Israel or the jews. I am open to fair criticism but by your own posts you work from a double standard and distort history and the facts against Israel and the jews. You VERY clearly apply a double standard. Thats what separates antisemetic from just critcism. You cleraly sympathize with the arabs, buy their propaganda and are willing to throw the jews under the bus to appease the arabs and radicals and apply a double standard. Its soooo transparent. I am glad you wouldn't defend Israel with a fingenail. We/they wouldn't want you and thank God they don't need you. In fact, if anything guys like you would rather be wearing green head bands and brandishing AKs if given the choice.

First your posts demonstrate you know squat about history or even worse, you are trying to re-write it. The jews historical and biblical claim to the Israeli territory predates Islam. In fact, Islams great prophet, Mohammed was still crapping in his diaper when Judism was thousands of years old. The Arabs built their most holy and oldest Mosque over the Temple Mount. The long and the short of it is that the jews have as much if not more historical and biblical claim to the Israeli territory then the palestinians.

You're broad factually baesless statements paint the picture that the jews (1) never had any claim to the area that is now Israel and (2)second, that they walked in and stole it from poor Arabs. Both statements are false, baseless, misleading and right out of the party line of Hamas, Hellbolah and their like. You probably should be wearing a green head band.

First, there never was a country named Palestine controlled by Palestians. However there was a country named Israel going back to biblical times. The Romans renamed Israel "Palestine" when they conquered it. When many jews started to return to what is now Israel in the middle and late 1800's they began settling in areas they purchased or rented from Arab owners or which were not owned or occupied. Your reference to "deeds" is right out of Noam Chomsky, Edward Said's and Arafats playbook. No arab land was confiscated by jews. The land was purchased where it belonged to arabs or in a majority of cases ABSENTEE arabs. Thats correct "absentee" as many arab owners resided in Syria or Jordan. Based on the influx of jews back to their historical and biblical homeland and the fact that by the 1930's there were significant pockets of jewish population centers and in light of the fact that the jews began cultivating and developing what was an arid and dry waste land and began employing arabs in development, agriculture, manufacture etc.. it became clear, especially after the WWII that the jews should be given a country in their biblical home land. This together with the "Zionist" movement, meaning "self determination" in REcreating ones own land eventually resulted in the State of Israel in 1948. Israel wasn't created it was RECREATED. The jews have created one of the most advanced cultured countrys based on democracy in the world out of an arid waste land. The arabs are still living in the middle ages even with all their oil. (CobraED you also apparently have no clue. Go to Israel, then come back and we'll talk. You'll be shocked at what an amazing country it is).

Second, if you know anything about the history of Israel you would know that it WASN'T that the Palestinians wanted their own country at the time. Nope, they wanted the entire region to be attached and made part of Syria. Isn't that interesting Steve? Yup, you see this fiction that the palestians were deprived of their own country is BS and drummed up by the other arab states as a foil against Israel. They, the Palestinians didn't even want their own country at that time, but they want one now and where do they want to put it. Yup out of the entire arab region they have to have it right where Israel is. What a coincidence. My facts are taken from history books and writings at the time. I can provide references if you care to educate yourself. Your "statements' are right from the antisemetic horsechit propaganda. Steve, Amadinajad is coming to N.Y. perhaps you can get an autograph?

Fact, the White Papers and the UN offered to divide what is now Israel in two giving the areas mostly populated by arabs/palestinians to them and the area mostly populated by the jews to the jews. Guess who accepted the proposal and who rejected it.

When the jews accepted it and the arabs rejected it and after the State of Israel of declared in 1948 guess what was the first thing the arabs did? (a). Send a welcome card from the world community or (b) attack with armies from alll arab states. If you answered "b" your right.

Prior to the Arab states attacking Israel after the 1948 declaration of independence all arabs were warned by the attacking arab states to leave Israel. Many did. Israel didn't push or drive them out. Most left. Fact.

If the palestinians really wanted a country of their own versus the destruction of Israel they have had more then ample opprotunity and blown it everytime from the Camp David accords where they were offered 99% of everything they wanted to being given back the Gaza and turning it back into a wasteland immersed in chaos.

You refer to the many "horrible" things the jews and Israel have done withhout providing any details or specifics or facts. Again just making broad accusations without facts such as the jews taught the arabs how to terrorize. Ridiculous and clearly bias. I'm not saying the Israelis are perfect. Nor am I saying that the jews didn't commit acts of terrorism in the past against arabs and even the British.

But lets put things in perspective shall we. Two wrongs don't make a right. The Israelis have been for the last half century trying to find a way to make peace. The Israelis don't preach death to arabs or teach their children to hate and kill arabs from K1 on up. The Palestinians and many arab states do just that as to the jews. You name a country that has shown the restraint Israel has. You have your home, your friends, your family threatened with death, missles, suicide bombers or lose someone to these animals. What would you want your government to do?

Israel has a propaganda machine? I hope so. They need one. Ever hear of CAIR steve? Ever hear of the Saudi lobby? Ever hear Human rights groups come down on Hamas, Hezzobolah or other homocide groups? I haven't. But Israel gets blasted all the time everytime there is a collateral death. I particularly don't think its fair to criticize a country and people that believe in life and try to avoid killing innocents when they make a mistake but fail to critcize the animals that have as their goal women and children, death, destruction and defeat of any peace plan. Do you?

What say you steve to Hamas, Iran, Syria, Hezzbolah and Al Queada's wish for the destruction of Isael. Sound good? Sound like a plan there stevie?

You're exgirl friends parents would've loved your suggestion of putting Israel in Uganda or your suggestion that some nut jewish terrorist sniping in Middleast at arabs when the arabs were siding with Hiltler, cheering the Afrika Corps, Rommel and signing up for the SS resulted in and was the justification for FDR turning away thousands of jews on ships from Germany trying to escape the Holocost. In fact I didn't read one word of criticiam of the arabs in your posts to them signing up for the SS and siding with the Nazis and their plan for the "final" solution and this was even before there was a suggestion to recreate Israel. Wonder why. Hmmm. I guess they were justified as they were on "Arab" land.

Guys like you make me wretch and you have the termerity to claim your not antisemetic You say you would give your life to defend the life of the jews but not a fingernail for Israel. Your full of it. I see you for what you are. You ain't foolin me.

Shalom.

[Roscoe]

September 23, 2007

Israelis seized nuclear material in Syrian raidUzi Mahnaimi and Sarah Baxter
Also from Sarah Baxter: Snatched: Israeli commandos ‘nuclear’ raid | Israelis 'blew apart Syrian nuclear cache' | Secret US air force team to perfect plan for Iran strike | Alan Greenspan: "Blair was clearly an aide to Brown"

Israeli commandos seized nuclear material of North Korean origin during a daring raid on a secret military site in Syria before Israel bombed it this month, according to informed sources in Washington and Jerusalem.

The attack was launched with American approval on September 6 after Washington was shown evidence the material was nuclear related, the well-placed sources say.

They confirmed that samples taken from Syria for testing had been identified as North Korean. This raised fears that Syria might have joined North Korea and Iran in seeking to acquire nuclear weapons.

London Times: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2512380.ece

[fasterpatrick]

Give them all nukes at about 1000 ft we can drill for oil through glass. They will never stop fighting ever. I'm so sick of hearing about that wasteland and all the fighting going on there since time began. It's about time we burned the field to kill the weeds, herbicide ain't working.

[REAL 1]

There is an intelligent solution.

[fasterpatrick]

Look I really don't like sounding like a a-hole. But if these peoples spent half as much time and energy into teaching tolerance and acceptance instead of hatred, killing, and powergrabing, they would control the world. Now they want to start teaching this slime in New York, a madrasa in the states that can't be good. Our constitution should be amended to state freedom of religion to "only if their back bone belief is based on tolerance and acceptance". Any religion that at the core defines nonbelievers as evil and to be killed for their beliefs a bad idea and not to be tolerated. They should have government supervision in that place twenty-four hours a day before they start spewing that hatred for all things American here.

[Wes Tausend]

Originally Posted by Roscoe

September 23, 2007

Israelis seized...
...to Brown"

Israeli commandos seized nuclear material of North Korean origin during a daring raid on a secret military site in Syria before Israel bombed it this month, according to informed sources in Washington and Jerusalem.

The attack was launched with American approval on September 6 after Washington was shown evidence the material was nuclear related, the well-placed sources say.

They confirmed that samples taken from Syria for testing had been identified as North Korean. This raised fears that Syria might have joined North Korea and Iran in seeking to acquire nuclear weapons.

London Times: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2512380.ece

Thanks for the link and info, Roscoe. That somewhat answers why a site could be bombed without the spread of nuclear debris and also a few questions on US knowledge of such.

I note that the Times was purchased and revamped by Rupert Murdoch in 1981, the same year Reagan was first elected. One would hope that News International Group is the agency actually digging out the truth while the rest make up the inuendo and color.

Mike is right. Everybody else is pretty quiet on this. No screams of foul... like MSM would either like it to go away... or the nuke material is considered to be relatively harmless(?) non-weapons grade. North Korea? Scary any way a man looks at it anyway.

It makes sense that these countries (North Korea, Syria and Iran ) would like to obtain nuclear generators to use in the future. If anybody is aware of the pitfalls of the petroleum dependence, it should be countries already sucking hind nipple.


...

[Ron61]

I don't remember just where I read it, but a week or so before they bombed the site I saw a short article, more of a memo type, that they had proof Syria was storing Nuclear weapons material for North Korea, supposedly so North Korea could let the inspectors look around some and them get the billions we have promised to finish their program of building nuclear weapons.

I do not know if any of this is true and disclaim any knowledge or connection with the report.

Ron

[CobraEd]

This is a great thread. We should title it "The Zionists vs. The Anti-Semites"




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