Lt. General Ricardo S. Sanchez vs. The MSM

[Roscoe]

Here’s today’s assignment....

Read the whole text of LT GEN Ricardo S. Sanchez’ speech and compare it to all the news excepts and how it’s being “reported”.

http://www.militaryreporters.org/sanchez_101207.html

Roscoe

[Jamo]

Yup...read it.

Personally, I wished ALL of the military folks, current and retired, would STFU and keep the confidence. They feed the frenzy whenever they open their mouths...and I truly don't distinguish whether it's a good or bad messagae (in my eyes) when they speak.

[VRM]

Roscoe,
MSM publishes what they think will sell. Five years ago they were selling the Iraq invasion because most Americans wanted to kick some ass. Now more Americans have realised that we are doing a very bad job of running the war, and MSM now panders to that.
Unfortunately, most Americans do not want to hear the truth, they want to hear things supportive of their viewpoints.

Jamo, we have a lot of problems in this country. Stifling the viewpoint of someone who can identify a problem and possibly offer solutions is not a good way to fix a problem. I wish some of them would speak up BEFORE they retire. Possibly even refuse to follow orders because it would damage the country.

Steve

[Jamo]

Steve

The military owes its duty to the Commander-in-Chief and should keep its discussions internal. I extend that (IMO) to retired military folks. I had a problem when they argued with Clinton, and I have a problem when the Administration presents military commanders to the press. Again, they need to STFU and be kept out of the greater discussion. There is an internal chain of command for discussion, and that should be it.

Folks loved MacArthur...but he created a phuked up situation in Korea by taking issue with the Administration, which must take into account the political as well as the strategic factors in any conflict. If you would prefer the Hollywood version rather than real history...7 Days in May.

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by VRM

Roscoe,
MSM publishes what they think will sell. Five years ago they were selling the Iraq invasion because most Americans wanted to kick some ass. Now more Americans have realised that we are doing a very bad job of running the war, and MSM now panders to that.
Unfortunately, most Americans do not want to hear the truth, they want to hear things supportive of their viewpoints.

Jamo, we have a lot of problems in this country. Stifling the viewpoint of someone who can identify a problem and possibly offer solutions is not a good way to fix a problem. I wish some of them would speak up BEFORE they retire. Possibly even refuse to follow orders because it would damage the country.

Steve

THE DEATH KNELL OF YOUR ETHICS HAS BEEN ENABLED BY YOUR PARENT ORGANIZATIONS WHO HAVE CHOSEN TO ALIGN THEMSELVES WITH POLITICAL AGENDAS. WHAT IS CLEAR TO ME IS THAT YOU ARE PERPETUATING THE CORROSIVE PARTISAN POLITICS THAT IS DESTROYING OUR COUNTRY AND KILLING OUR SERVICEMEMBERS WHO ARE AT WAR.


For the liberal media it’s not Freedom of the press....it’s free reign of the press...and there’s a difference....

[427 S/O]

Well said............

[VRM]

Jamo,
Excellent point about MacArthur. Thanks for the reminder. Still, there is a point where the military has to draw the line between what constitutes a lawful order and what does not. An order from the CinC can be considered not lawful under certain circumstances. 'I was just following orders' is not an excuse, as we know from Nuremburg. It is a slippery slope, but quite honestly, if the Congress was doing it's job properly then we might not be in as much trouble as we are now.

CdC,
The press we have today sells what they think will sell. Today there is a lot of DNC positive press. A few years ago there was a GOP positive press. Neither is a good thing. Both sides have political agendas - those agendas are not in the best interests of this country.

Steve

[Jamo]

Steve...the Framers put the Prez in charge for a reason. We're talking about foreign policy here, not taking out a village.

That slope you find so slippery is from all the sh!t you're pouring on it.

[bomelia]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,301715,00.html

Well, it looks like things are looking up. Lets see how THIS sells in the MSM.

Mike

[Wes Tausend]

...

LT GEN Ricardo S. Sanchez’ speech:
Basically the news media called him a dummy and he's almost tearfully calling, "No... you news guys are the dummies. The reason the war is not going well is the media's fault. It's the fault of bi-partisan(read liberal) politics. It's not my fault... not my fault."

Sometimes I think that Dick had little to do with this war until he followed orders. And I know that Rove is bright enough to have at least waited for dead weapons inspectors before he went in.
That leaves G.W. This must have been his hasty decision.

Like most Americans, I once wondered long ago why George senior didn't finish the Desert Storm job.
I got my logical answer years ago. This aging explanation pretty much still says it best:
( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I )

In the worlds eyes, this Iraq thing has far surpassed Viet Nam in the boondoggle catagory. As a proud American, I'll be glad when it's behind us.

Does what the world thinks matter to me?
Yeah, it matters. I have to live in this neighborhood.


...

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by VRM

Jamo,
Excellent point about MacArthur. Thanks for the reminder. Still, there is a point where the military has to draw the line between what constitutes a lawful order and what does not. An order from the CinC can be considered not lawful under certain circumstances. 'I was just following orders' is not an excuse, as we know from Nuremburg. It is a slippery slope, but quite honestly, if the Congress was doing it's job properly then we might not be in as much trouble as we are now.

CdC,
The press we have today sells what they think will sell. Today there is a lot of DNC positive press. A few years ago there was a GOP positive press. Neither is a good thing. Both sides have political agendas - those agendas are not in the best interests of this country.

Steve

A few years ago there was a GOP positive press.

That must have been in the 1920's - the press has not been positive toward the GOP, and especially conservatives in our lifetime.

You know, Steve, Lenin accurately defined liberals as “useful idiots.” Today, America’s useful idiots are proving useful in bringing harm to America from within as well as from without.

[imagine2frolic]

Wes,

Very interesting YOUTUBE you posted. Maybe he forgot he ever said those things by 2002?

[VRM]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

A few years ago there was a GOP positive press.

That must have been in the 1920's - the press has not been positive toward the GOP, and especially conservatives in our lifetime.

You know, Steve, Lenin accurately defined liberals as “useful idiots.” Today, America’s useful idiots are proving useful in bringing harm to America from within as well as from without.

If the press had been doing its job in the early run-up to the invasion of Iraq we might not have actually invaded. There were still new articles being written only a year or two ago (and not just on Fox) that said that we invaded because Hussein did not let in weapons inspectors. Trying to divert attention from a lack of intelligence in the administration and Congress?

I think that the only true conservative in government today is probably Ron Paul. And you are right - the media (and even his own party) have not been very positive towards him.

BTW, you DO know that Jefferson was a liberal, right?

Jamo,
You are right about the CinC being in charge, but does the military have an obligation to defy that CinC when his orders violate the Constitution? I think that the results at Nuremburg show that answer to be a 'yes'.

Have you been following Watadas court martial at all? It's a very interesting case.

Steve

[cobra de capell]

If the press had been doing its job in the early run-up to the invasion of Iraq we might not have actually invaded. There were still new articles being written only a year or two ago (and not just on Fox) that said that we invaded because Hussein did not let in weapons inspectors. Trying to divert attention from a lack of intelligence in the administration and Congress?

Very few posters here have a problem with the invasion, so whether or not the press was doing it's job is really not the point.

You are simply a lefty - I believe, simply stated, the theory that asserts that liberals, like you, are persons who lack the gene that allows humans to mentally process reality. Until the exact gene is located, it will remain a theory. However, until then, much empirical evidence of the liberals’ inability to process reality exists to support the theories premise.

The entire free world thought SH had WMD's - he used them on his own people - the Congress voted for the invasion - so get over it - we are there, let's all support the troops and get out ASAP after the job is done.

BTW - you should go over to dailykos or the democratunderground and post - you may as well be talking to a wall here, but I think you know that.

[VRM]

CdC,
Actually, I despise the left about as much as I despise the right. The left seems to have no answers to our collective problems, and the right seems to have a lot of wrong answers. You need to call me a lefty simply because I disagree with you on most things we talk about in here, and your limited thinking only allows you to see things in black and white.

The MSM raked Clinton over the coals, and as well they should have. The GOP has been spared much of that until recently, when 'conventional wisdom' has turned against the GOP, and GOP-bashing now sells.

The thought of Clinton in the White House horrifies me, but it will probably happen. I suspect that the MSM pendulum will swing back towards the GOP once she begins her term and starts her own screw-ups. I am hoping that the GOP will get its head together and offer up some real small government, small taxes candidates. I hope it only takes one term of Clinton to be able to do that, but the way the GOP has been (not) functioning lately I am not counting on it.

BTW, the job in Iraq is done. There are no WMDs and we are fighting primarily Iraqis who want their country back. We need to start sending the troops to Afghanistan and let the Iraqis begin to solve their own problems.

Steve

[BeanCounter]

The left seems to have no answers to our collective problems, and the right seems to have a lot of wrong answers.

So I guess you're the only one with the right answers?

[VRM]

Originally Posted by BeanCounter

So I guess you're the only one with the right answers?

Nope, but I have more than you.

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by VRM

CdC,
Actually, I despise the left about as much as I despise the right. The left seems to have no answers to our collective problems, and the right seems to have a lot of wrong answers. You need to call me a lefty simply because I disagree with you on most things we talk about in here, and your limited thinking only allows you to see things in black and white.
The MSM raked Clinton over the coals, and as well they should have. The GOP has been spared much of that until recently, when 'conventional wisdom' has turned against the GOP, and GOP-bashing now sells.
The thought of Clinton in the White House horrifies me, but it will probably happen. I suspect that the MSM pendulum will swing back towards the GOP once she begins her term and starts her own screw-ups. I am hoping that the GOP will get its head together and offer up some real small government, small taxes candidates. I hope it only takes one term of Clinton to be able to do that, but the way the GOP has been (not) functioning lately I am not counting on it.
BTW, the job in Iraq is done. There are no WMDs and we are fighting primarily Iraqis who want their country back. We need to start sending the troops to Afghanistan and let the Iraqis begin to solve their own problems.
Steve

It's not seeing thing in black or white, its seeing things as they are. At least on the left they have positions, of sorts, they take positions, of sorts and the right is very firm when it comes to positions on the issues. In your case, the middle, you don't really have positions you simply mre or less call everyone stupid with you having all the answers, especially in hindlight. Yes, no WMD's, but SH stated that he had them, he informed his generals that he had them - the entire free world, except for you, believed that he had them, so reality at the time - he had them. Now, what about that scenario don't you understand?

BTW, your posts on this issue are simply a huge load of codswallop. I’m going to need a bigger wheelbarrow, but please keep posting.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by bomelia

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,301715,00.html

Well, it looks like things are looking up. Lets see how THIS sells in the MSM.

Mike

We won!! Congratuations! Your efforts helped this country persevere through these tough times and defeat the enemy. We can leave now, right?

I don't think it is going to get much play at all. Once we declare victory we have no more reason to stay. Based on a couple of speeches that Bush has given I really think we are not going to begin leaving until the oil production bill in the Iraqi legislature is signed. Most Iraqis are not keen on signing it, but some are in favour of doing so because they think it will get us out of their country.

We will see, but that's my prediction.
Steve

[VRM]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

It's not seeing thing in black or white, its seeing things as they are. At least on the left they have positions, of sorts, they take positions, of sorts and the right is very firm when it comes to positions on the issues. In your case, the middle, you don't really have positions you simply mre or less call everyone stupid with you having all the answers, especially in hindlight. Yes, no WMD's, but SH stated that he had them, he informed his generals that he had them - the entire free world, except for you, believed that he had them, so reality at the time - he had them. Now, what about that scenario don't you understand?

BTW, your posts on this issue are simply a huge load of codswallop. I’m going to need a bigger wheelbarrow, but please keep posting.

Of course he had them! We gave them to him! He had them for years and he never used them against us. They also expired years ago. His WMD were also not likely to ever be used against us UNLESS we attacked him. His WMD (or rather, the threat of those WMD) helped keep Iran in check. Hussein would also not allow Iran to get nukes because he would have been one of the first people they would be used on. That threat to Iran is now gone, and instead, Iraq will eventually end up favouring Iran. Obviously, you don't know that a very strong Iran is not in our best interests, nor in the best interests of the rest of the countries in the ME. You have a very shortsighted view of how to balance powers in order to cancel those powers out.

Scowcroft knows a helluva lot more about this than either of us do, and he thought it was a bad idea as well. Why is that? A lot of generals are retiring and saying that we violated the rules of war, the Powell Doctrine, and so on. They all must be evil libs, right?

Steve