The Fence

[bomelia]

I actually have the good fortune to speak occasionally with a fellow who is working on the Virtual Fence (Boeing contract). He spends every other two weeks out in Tuscon. Yesterday, he told me that while the towers are going up, there is a physical fence going up as well. Something like 2 inch pipes filled with concrete with 2 inches of space between then. 15 feet tall, 6 feet underground in solid concrete. I am going to get him to get some pictures. Apparently the plan is to build both systems. He told me that the Mexicans are throwing rocks and mooning the construction workers. 1 million $/mile. Seems like an excellent deal to me.

Mike

[VRM]

Originally Posted by bomelia

Something like 2 inch pipes filled with concrete with 2 inches of space between then. 15 feet tall, 6 feet underground in solid concrete.
Mike

Sounds like a pretty easy climb.

Pics would be nice.

[RACER X #99]

They come here because good solid American citizens(businessmen) give them employment. No fence will ever stop them.
Americans just can't resist a bargin or a good deal. Guess where the labor comes from on the good deals?

You waana be pissed at people get pissed at the American citizens in the welfare line and the "businessmen"

[Roscoe]

How about a few of these?

[427 S/O]

Thanks Mike, I emailed my so called senators a few times asking for current status on the fence...never heard from them.

[imagine2frolic]

Is the fence made out of metal? If so we could always tie in some wind generators, and solar panels. Give it a bit of reusable juice

[Scott S]

A GI every 1/4 mile with a good rest and a nice rifle would be cheaper.

Scott S

[jams]

Lock and Load!

[Venamm]

Hey folks,
Have a look at this. It puts a whole real persective on the matter that I bet some of you didn't know.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1t...dg-sdfg_dating

[Venamm]

oh yeah Scott,
A lot more then 1/3 of other commodities comes to Canada from the USA.

[bomelia]

Originally Posted by Venamm

Hey folks,
Have a look at this. It puts a whole real persective on the matter that I bet some of you didn't know.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1t...dg-sdfg_dating

It does NOT put a different perspective on anything. The BS artists that make these crappy short films are left leaning distorters of facts. Most folks down here in the lower 48 want nothing more than to control our borders. Ever wonder why you do not have a border problem?

You sir, have no idea what is happening in the US with illegal immigration.

Mike

PS: Btw, I take a small amount of offense at your indirect suggestion (by blithely posting that stupid video) that Americans who support the fence and border control are racist. But then again, it was your suggestion. So what does that say about your inclinations?

[bomelia]

Originally Posted by VRM

Sounds like a pretty easy climb.

Pics would be nice.

Yes, its nothing more than a barrier which will slow things down. Best estimates have it at about 30-40% effective. But with the 1800 towers being built by Boeing, the effectiveness is expected to rise considerably.

Thats more than one tower per mile.

When I get pics, I will post them.

Mike

[Scott S]

Originally Posted by Venamm

oh yeah Scott,
A lot more then 1/3 of other commodities comes to Canada from the USA.

When you operate your forests with the same rules as we do and have to buy your timber on an open market rather than letting the "crown" give it to the mills.

Then lets talk....

Scott S

[Roscoe]

It's an easy climb unless you hook up the 440.

Roscoe

[Venamm]

Mike,
How do you assume what I am aware of, and also what do you know about "my borders" I have you know you might have the largest AMOUNT OF Mexican walking across, but we have the largest amount of drugs and guns not to mention terrorists! Want to trade Mr. "I take offense to that" Get off your stars and stripes attitude and look beyond the problem and beyond the "lower 48" Also, do not hate the people who are trying to make it over, hate the people who are over baiting their hooks.

Scott,
You must be related to Mike, what education do you have about Canadian forestry? Simply the USA has run out and either they purchased from Canada or China. we are your neighbor to the north, we do not have a war with you. NAFTA screwed us just as bad if not more, and I do not hear any Canadian crying of lost potatoes hydro electricity. So get over it.

[Wayne Maybury]

Originally Posted by Scott S

When you operate your forests with the same rules as we do and have to buy your timber on an open market rather than letting the "crown" give it to the mills.

Then lets talk....

Scott S

Scott

The fiber supply in Eastern Canada is now considered to be the most expensive in the world (sorry but I don't have the specific numbers). Wood here costs more than in Japan which historically had the highest cost. The Quebec government has also reduced cutting rights by 20% so we cannot even get as much wood as we did in the past. All forestry companies in Canada are in bad financial shape. Of course the weak US dollar is not helping either. You may not like the forestry products going to the US from Canada but I bet that you don't mind all of the oil that we send your way.

The US and Canada have approximately $400 billion of annual TWO WAY TRADE. This is not like the trade situation the US has with China or Japan where they export and you import, resulting in a huge trade deficit.

Wayne

[427 S/O]

Lumber yards, pulp wooders, wholesalers and retailers are all hurting, housing starts have plummeted and that's their bread and butter. From what I've seen and read, I wouldn't expect good news for a long while....

[trularin]

As I understand it and I hope I am not saying what some else has already stated, we are in a 8 - 15 year cycle. According to some people, we will continue to degrade in economy until 2010 or 2012. Then there will be an upturn.

[Scott S]

Originally Posted by Venamm

Scott,
You must be related to Mike, what education do you have about Canadian forestry? Simply the USA has run out and either they purchased from Canada or China. we are your neighbor to the north, we do not have a war with you. NAFTA screwed us just as bad if not more, and I do not hear any Canadian crying of lost potatoes hydro electricity. So get over it.

Nope not related to Mike but we do share a common country...

I have been in forestry over 30 years, have visited your country and buy quite a lot of heavy forestry equipment from Canada too.

CANADA IS JEOPARDIZING THE SOFTWOOD LUMBER
AGREEMENT BY FAILING TO ADHERE TO ITS TERMS

For the Softwood Lumber Agreement (SLA) to be a lasting alternative to trade
litigation, the parties must ensure full compliance. Unfortunately, the Canadian
government presently is not doing so and is thereby putting the agreement at risk. It
is extremely disappointing that the list of violations is extensive a few months after
the two trading partners entered into to this seven-to-nine year agreement.
Canadian government data indicate that through May 2007 Canada’s under-collection
of required export taxes totals at least US$116 million and provinces’ over-quota
shipments total at least 522 million board feet. As the required tax and quota limits
on shipments are minimally necessary to address Canada’s unfair trade practices, its
SLA violations severely harm the U.S. lumber industry.

• Canada Is Not Collecting Required Surge Mechanism Export Taxes:
Canada is violating SLA surge mechanism requirements. The surge mechanism
requires Canada to impose additional export taxes if British Columbia’s or
Alberta’s exports to the United States exceed 111% of its allocated U.S. market
share in any period. Canada is calculating erroneously high share levels, and as
a result has through June foregone an estimated US$85 million in required export
taxes.

• Canada Is Permitting Shipments Beyond Agreed Quota Levels: As with
the surge limits described above, quotas applicable to Ontario and Quebec
exports are based on allocated shares of the U.S. lumber market. Since Canada
is, as with the surge limits, overstating allocated shares, it is permitting exports
over permitted quota levels. Through June, Quebec and Ontario had exported an
estimated 522 million board feet over their quotas.

• Canada Is Under-Collecting Primary Export Taxes: Canadian government
data indicate that Canada has not been collecting the full 15% primary export tax
on BC and Alberta shipments to the United States or the full 5% tax on Quebec
and Ontario shipments. The Canadian data, on their face, represent a Canadian
government acknowledgement that it collected only around 89% of required
primary tax proceeds and failed to collect approximately US$31 million in
required primary taxes from the time the agreement came into force in October
2006 through April 2007 (the latest month for which data are available).

• Provinces Are Providing Forbidden New Subsidies: Canadian provinces
have announced and begun disbursing new subsidies to lumber producers that
are forbidden under the agreement. Quebec is implementing a plan to provide
hundreds of millions of dollars in grants, subsidized loans and other subsides for,
among other purposes, “business modernization.” Ontario is doing the same.
The SLA expressly forbids these types of new subsidies. They exacerbate and
prolong current, ruinous lumber market conditions by sustaining large segments
of uneconomical Canadian lumber production.
The provinces are making it clear that they will preserve sawmills that would
close in a market system. In May, the largest Canadian lumber producer, Canfor,
announced that it is closing its Mackenzie, British Columbia “super mill.” British
Columbia authorities have announced a plan to reduce Canfor’s costs on the basis
of which the mill will remain open. Alone, the Mackenzie sawmill accounts for
around 2.5% of Canadian softwood lumber shipments to the United States -- an
enormous factor in a commodity market like lumber.

Read more here...

http://www.slma.org/pdf/USTR_canadianarbitration.pdf

Hardly a good neighbor on this issue.

What would you like me to get over?

Scott S

[Venamm]

Buy American lumber???...again you don't have any left. You are reading into a mislead propaganda piece written by who?...you got it!

I could easily send you links how we've been raped and pillaged over and over in the Auto MFG sector and lets not even talk farm produce. So stop it.

By the way I must point out that I lived in Washington DC for 15 years, and I know how the wheel spins (I am a dual citizen) I also know that it's very American to blame (by nature not nurture) a country and not their own government. After all that is how wars start. Look with in before fingers are pointed. History has taught us that.