The Fence

[Ron61]

Geez,

How did this thread get from a FENCE along the Mexican border to a Timber War between the United States and Canada.

Scott,

Years ago a friend of mine owned a boat shop here and he did most of the work on the big house boats and patio boats for the marinas on Shasta Lake. That required a lot of plywood and at that time we had a big plywood mill in Anderson, 20 miles down the freeway from us. He bought from them for years until one time he was in Los Angles. He had to make at least one trip a month down there for stuff he couldn't get here and he came back loaded down with plywood. I asked him why he hauled it all that distance and he told me to come look at it. It was made and had the Anderson Stamp on it. I don't remember the exact price per sheet, but in Los Angles he could buy it for half what they charged him at the mill just 20 miles away. I know this has nothing to do with the U.S., Canada deal, but our electricity is the same. I live 7 miles from the dam and they pay less for it down South than we do right here where it is generated. I have just never really understood how you can ship anything 500 miles and sell it for half what you can at the source and still make a profit. Rants over, back to the normal programming in this thread.

Ron

[Scott S]

Originally Posted by Venamm

No one rebrands here i'm in the biz. Now I know you are a pro BS artist.

BUY NORTH AMERICAN LUMBER

Here is an examble of re branding as it crosses borders,

# BP (advertising tagline "Beyond Petroleum", initials once officially stood for British Petroleum, but with the merger of AMOCO in 1998, BP is the actual corporate name)

* BP
* Amoco — United States
* Aral — Czech Republic, Germany, Luxembourg
* ARCO — United States
* Burmah — Former gasoline brand used in the UK
* Standard Oil — United States
* Sohio — Former gasoline brand, now used as marine fuel brand in Ohio

More propaganda for you...

Coalition For Fair Lumber Imports

Canada's unfair lumber subsidies have for decades harmed the U.S. lumber industry, threatening its workers with mounting unemployment, and denying many tree farmers a market for their timber crops. The impact of these subsidies is apparent everywhere. To learn more about Canada's lumber subsidies, and how to restore fair and free lumber trade between the two countries, see the other pages of this website. You'll see why even many Canadians agree that Canada isn't playing fair in softwood lumber.

On October 12, 2006, the second U.S.-Canada Softwood Lumber Agreement (SLA) came into effect and terminated more than 20 different legal disputes surrounding Canada’s softwood lumber subsidies and below cost of production sales in the U.S. market. The U.S. Coalition for Fair Lumber Imports, an alliance of large and small lumber producers from around the country, supports the SLA.

The agreement encourages Canadian provinces to abandon their long-standing practices of subsidizing Canadian lumber production. These unfair trade practices have caused hundreds of U.S. lumber mill closures, thousands of U.S. job losses, and have suppressed the market for thousands of private timberland owners. The Coalition for Fair Lumber Imports hopes that the SLA will provide the mechanism by which to find a permanent solution to this unfortunate dispute between two great trading partners.

And..

One effect of Canada's lumber subsidies on U.S. business.

Canadian provincial governments maintain timber-sale programs designed to sustain artificially high employment and production levels in their lumber industry. The provinces have been providing an estimated $3 to $3.5 billion U.S. dollars in annual subsidies to the Canadian lumber industry by under-pricing government timber (a Canadian taxpayer resource worth billions of dollars that virtually is being given away to a single industry), and have maintained policies which effectively prevent Canadian lumber companies from adjusting their production levels based on actual demand.

The subsidies programs are possible because the Canadian provinces own the vast bulk of merchantable timber in Canada. Managing these forests allows the provinces to set prices for public timber far below market value, thus lowering production costs for Canadian lumber companies. The government-set price of Canadian timber is only a fraction of the market-determined price of identical timber in U.S. border regions.

In addition to providing subsidies, Canadian provinces have instituted policies designed to maximize jobs and production in the Canadian industry – including minimum harvest requirements, domestic processing mandates, and log export restrictions – resulting in artificially high timber harvesting and lumber production even when the market is oversupplied.

Canadian companies unload their excess production into the U.S. market at a cost of thousands of good-paying American jobs. Through subsidies and policies that induce uneconomical manufacturing, the provinces export production cutbacks, mill closures and job losses to the United States. When demand falls and lumber prices decline, U.S. companies cut back on operations at a higher proportional rate than Canadian companies, because the provinces keep them at full production through low timber costs. The market share of unfairly traded Canadian imports has increased steadily for three decades, checked only when trade restraints offset the subsidies and dumping.

U.S. workers, industry, and landowners should not be forced to pay the enormous costs of this Canadian social policy. In short, Canada’s social programs must stop at the border.

I am in the biz and live it every day, no BS here.

Ron in a way this is about fences and borders, some boundaries are physical and some are treaties. Both are useless if they are crawled over or ignored.

[Scott S]

And about Lowes,

You don't have any open there yet now do you?

Lowe's Canadian unit will start up operations in Ontario with up to five to six stores by the end of 2007 financial year and will be based in Toronto, Ontario, headquarters of Home Depot Canada.

The initial stores are projected to open in the second half of 2007, each creating up to 175 jobs. Each store represents an average investment of $20.5 million ($18.5 million USD).

A news release on Lowe's website stated that "we’re breaking ground on our first location in Hamilton, have identified additional locations in Brantford, South Brampton and Toronto and have another nine locations approved through our real estate committee process...” Lowe's Updates Canadian Expansion Plans

The first three stores are planned to open on December 10.

BS?....

Scott S

[Venamm]

yes there are Lowe's and I am behind the deal. Plus your idiotic re branding example had no Canada comparisons. Again USA and Canada do not re brand the Box stores.
ONCE AGAIN CRY ALL YOU WANT ABOUT THE LUMBER BUT WE WILL SELL TO WHOM EVER BUYS AND SO WOULD THE USA. SO TALK TO THE BUYERS. DON'T HATE THE PLAYERS HATE THE GAME. You obviously have this incredible hatred towards Canada for a sour deal your folks made. I do not hate the USA I love both countries and you should put away your swinging bat (made from Canadian maple no doubt) and learn to get along with people. After all your tone sounds a lot like how wars start.

BACK TO THE FENCE
buy North American Lumber

[Scott S]

I have backed up my comments with links and fair opinions about how Canada is circumventing agreements on this trade issue.

You on the other hand have not refuted one of them yet.

But you do have that sleazy video as your only contribution I can find to the forum.

You are suspect to say the least, did South Parks "Blame Canada" really effect you this much?





Scott S

[Scott S]

Jamo and C'works let me know when the proding should stop...

Scott S

[Venamm]

I agree.
No place on this site for hatred to be spread. I have already documented it all.

[Venamm]

I think I have had enough reading your hate writing about my country. I will be the more mature, and smarter of the 2 to not entertain a answer or comment to that last post.

I must say though, you do not deserve to be a role model of what the USA stands for. You are a very bitter and abrasive individual that seems to point fingers at everyone but home. I ask that the Cobra Club monitors step in and investigate what a hate monger is and identify what the damage of such a person could do to a forum like this. As I suggested if he feels strong about that issue, that's cool but why in this forum?

This person is no doubt using a car forum in the lounge area to spread his gospel on how to hate a country and race and it's political freedom. I find this really offensive and I intend to report it.

[Ron61]

Scott,

You are correct that treaties should be honored, but any more they mean no more than the contracts our over paid athletes sign. My reference was that the topic started with the fence along the Mexican border and then seemed to spiral away into a Canadian, U.S. disagreement. Not your fault. Lumber was our main industry when I moved here with several mills and log trucks by the dozen. Then the environmentalists shut it all down and we have one small mill left and tons of fires. Only work around here now is mostly minimum wage in the stores and such.

Venamm,

I have tried to be nice to you and point out some basic rules that you should follow before getting to wound up. But you are very close to crossing a line here as no one hates Canada and before you get yourself put into the category with a couple of others on the site, I recommend you go back and read through some of the other threads that have been locked down and see just what a real hate monger and supporter of everything anti American is. You are new here and still haven't really gotten the hang of things and that some of us who have posted to each other for years can say things that to a new person sounds really bad, but we know what each other means. Calm down and don't get so wound up if someone doesn't agree with you and your country's policies. There are are several Canadians on here and doesn't it seem kind of odd to you that if what Don posted was so bad none of them would take exception to it?

Edited To correct Name!!!!

Ron

[Scott S]

Who is Don?

Ron were both up way to early...

Scott

[Ron61]

Darn Scott,

That was embarrassing. I was reading a note I received in the mail from a guy named Don while I was posting and just struck his name there in place of yours. Sorry. My mind is so old that it can no longer mulit task even on simple things. Oh to be 90 years younger !!!!!

Ron

[Venamm]

Ron,
I do highly appreciate your advise, honestly I do. I also enjoyed you personal email. So far you seem to one of the best who have been very kind to me. Please understand that even though my threads or comments might come across as cross I'm not. As we all know tone isn't easy to portray unless you write for a living. But my last post was genuine and I was upset. I can not comment why other Canadians don't comment on Scott's remarks or his sign off blurb.

It was my fault for throwing the topic off course, for that I'm sorry. I was hoping to get Scott to understand that his blurb might offend and most likely was not right for this forum because the club isn't exclusive to USA. Anti any country comments is never cool. (sort of speak) We should all be nice to each other. After chatting with him on the matter that lead me to make a judgment on his beliefs. I am entitled.

Having said all that I am done with the topic and want to move on. I do hope the Club and all other Canadian members reply, and that they kindly ask Scott to remove or at least politically re-write his blurb as a good will gesture. I hope he will do so with out any persuasion. If he does in return I will send him some Maple Syrup.

[Wayne Maybury]

Originally Posted by Scott S

Thanks Wayne for your comments, do you have any Lowes or Home Depot up there? There are one of each here nearby my home and nearly all the softwood lumber is from Canadian mills even though there are six local mills within 25 miles.

Just gotta wonder if somebody is not playing fair...

Scott

The company I work for does supply lumber to Home Depot. One of the reasons that they buy from us is that we have FSC certification. Maybe your local mills don't.

Wayne

[Scott S]

Originally Posted by Wayne Maybury

Scott

The company I work for does supply lumber to Home Depot. One of the reasons that they buy from us is that we have FSC certification. Maybe your local mills don't.

Wayne

Yes all the local mills here are certified, there is a pretty accurate tracking procedure from the stump to the retailer.

My company is certified also.

Scott S

[Scott S]

Originally Posted by Venamm

I was hoping to get Scott to understand that his blurb might offend and most likely was not right for this forum because the club isn't exclusive to USA. If he does in return I will send him some Maple Syrup.

I have no problem with Canada until lately

My wife and I honeymooned in Victoria and have returned often, I have visited Alberta and enjoyed the province, my company has purchased nearly 1 million dollars worth of heavy equipment from Canada in the last 10 years and one of the largest investments in my portfolio is a Canadian company.

My sig line does not say sc*w Canada, it says scr*w NAFTA and gives one reason, timber. I know nothing much of any other industry but I have friends that could make the same comments relating to Canada and NAFTA regarding fishing and grass seed production.

I have been on this forum for a very long time if you care to check this thread out...

Average Age?


You have called me stupid, a jackass, and a lair and are the only CC member that has ever done so after nearly 1000 posts.

I believe the only personal remark I made about you is to comment that you may have a rather large sensitive button.

I work in a tough industry around tough men, I don't have the time or inclination to be "politically" sensitive, I leave that to the self help books and womens talk shows, so I do not plan to amend my sig line on your behalf.

If you want another response from me it will only be to thank you for your apology.

And if you want to send me some maple syrup make sure it's from Vermont.

[Venamm]

No response from me other then Vermont is good for skiing,.....not syrup.

[bomelia]

What the F? I go away for a few days and come back to see my thread taken over by the lumber industry and angry Canadians?

Somebody has got a BAD case of the thin skiinies.

VRM, but my arse. Stop being a "peace maker". Its a dam hoot having someone in here that blows a cork so easily!

Of course, all of that was said with LOVE.

Mike

[VRM]

Originally Posted by bomelia

What the F? I go away for a few days and come back to see my thread taken over by the lumber industry and angry Canadians?

Somebody has got a BAD case of the thin skiinies.

VRM, but my arse. Stop being a "peace maker". Its a dam hoot having someone in here that blows a cork so easily!

Of course, all of that was said with LOVE.

Mike

What happened - did you just wake up from a Red Sox and Pats induced stupor??

[Scott S]

I am hoping for a syrup maker from Vermont to chime in...

Scott S

[Excaliber]

Having grown up in Oregon I was feeling right at home with Scotts dialog. It IS a tough place, I carried a knife in high school just for protection! They don't beat around the bush, they cut that sucker down to size right quick.