insurance reform

[vette killer]

Hello everyone;
I'm new today and this is my first post and I would like to start a thread on auto insurance.I am out to change the way kit car owners are treated by the insurance companies. I am NOT selling anything. What I have is the method by which we can force the companies to actually offer us a policy (yes,every
company) and when they do,treat us faily with no exorbitant rates.My car is a classic roadsters 427 cobra,351 windsor,3550 tremec,9" 4-link rear with 4-wheel disc brakes. I'm with Grundy and I pay $633.oo/year 2500 mi parade and show only,while an owner of a '66 corvette will pay only $292.50 ! I need to hear from all who are interested and especially from Montana kit car owners. thanks
vette killer

[jhv48]

Unfortunately, as one in the insurance industry, the unfairness lies in the fact that those GENUINE CLASSIC CARS are paying TOO LITTLE for their insurance. The insurance industry is going to address the difference eventually, but it will not result in the LOWERING of YOUR rates. It will result in the RAISING of rates for the genuine classic cars. That's where the inequity lies. Nice try though!

You might want to check out State FArm Insurance for your replica. Mine is insured as a second vehicle, registered as a 2007 FFR Cobra replica with a stated value of $40,000. Nothing special about it. Just a second vehicle with the following coverage: 250/500/100, 100 ded, comp, 250 ded collision, 250/500 um. Costs the same as yours annually.

[BDR561]

State Farm quoted me 700/6 months for the same coverages... My 02 Viper is only $600 year as is the vette and my wifes SLK32. Seems like they don't like replicas....

[Roscoe]

I have American Collectors Ins. It is classified as a 1966 Replica with an agreed value of 32.5k I have no deductible, 2500 miles/yr. 217.61 per year

[BDR561]

American just quote $700/year ith $500 ded, 40K stated value, 2500 miles for a car in FL!!!

[vette killer]

Thanks for the quick reply,all.Jhv48, you are counting me out too soon before you have heard the full story. In addition, the "companies" will ultimately BENEFIT from this change. I must say that I have gotten a lot of snap "no"answers from insurance folks but legislators and lobbyists aren't saying no.
Here is the basis of my contention:
1.I am forced to have insurance under penalty of law.
2.I am insuring a legally titled and registered vehicle in my state which entitles me to drive it in all 50 states.
3.The "big" insurance companies (allstate,progressive,farmers etc.)won't insure the car.
4.Under the principle of "equal protection under the law" upon which all of our laws are founded,this amounts to discrimination.
5.I then have no choice but to be funneled to the specialty companies who take total advantage of this situation and gros.sly overcharge me and restrict my mileage.
6.Once it became law,any company doing business in that state effectively gave up any right to pick and choose which legally registered vehicles they will insure-so says the Montana State Insurance Commissioner's office,Sema Action network and Several Montana legislators.
7. Why should you pay any more to insure your cobra than the guy next door pays to insure his 1966 corvette? It's essentially the same platform:fiberglass roadster,V-8.
I have heard all of the companies' arguements as to why they can charge me more than double and none of these will hold water. The only reason that they can do it is because the legislation to regulate these practises has not caught up with reality-yet.
In addition there is no consistancy between the companies that offer kit car policies;some will insure cobras,some won't. I guess the shape of the body makes it unsafe. This has to change and will change as soon as we make our voices heard. Do your own research by calling insurance companies for a quote,then call or e-mail your state insurance commissioner and legislators with the results.One guy complaining won't cut it. If you are a member of a club,do it by club.Good luck
vette killer

[RedBarchetta]

Originally Posted by vette killer

1.I am forced to have insurance under penalty of law.

I hear ya and respect where you are trying to go with this. But you have failed to indicate/grasp one important principle:

Driving is a privilege and not a right.

That's why you are forced to comply to this and that. Auto insurance is just one of several big, organized and 'legal' rackets. It's a big boat, Dude...why rock it? You're just along for the ride. Part of this hobby is trying to deal with affordable insurance and there are some decent alternatives still available.

Don't fret about the older 'Vette and musclecar crowd. Most of the smart owners have either collector car insurance for these cars or have a guaranteed replacement policy for a pre-defined amount (based on a professional appraisal) with the larger, national insurance carriers. If you wreck your '67 427 tri-power 'Vette and the insurance company hands you a check for $25K because that's what their books say it's worth, then tough on you for not performing the correct diligence.

Again, not busting your balls here...just stating facts. Enjoy the hobby and have fun in whatever car you own/drive. You only live once.

-Dean

[Roscoe]

How many replica Cobras get rolled up in a ball by overzealous or inexperienced drivers as opposed to 66 Vette drivers?

Roscoe

[pmfranke]

vette killer ,rally the troops ! let's do it! my rates from SF went up 30% in one year ! o my gosh! no tickets or crashes.Allmost $900 per year and i only drive 1000 miles a year. it is a crime what the insurance companys do. BUT......How many regestered Cobras are on the roads ? If everybody wrote a letter (maybe 30,000 nation wide)would it make a difference ? I think we are screwed by the lack of numbers.We have the ultimate rich boy toy and in the end we'll just have to pay!!!! and pay and pay and pay...

[CobraDan]

Many of the insurance companies that offered insurance for cobra owners got badly stung when they found out that a 2,000lb car with 600hp engines got people killed and all you need is one claim in the millions and your $200 dollar a year policy means that most companies that offered cheap insurance are no longer writing policies for any cobras. Most Corvette owners do only take their Corvettes to car shows, this has been discussed many, many times before and we are lucky that any companies still write policies for cobras.

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by pmfranke

vette killer ,rally the troops ! let's do it! my rates from SF went up 30% in one year ! o my gosh! no tickets or crashes.Allmost $900 per year and i only drive 1000 miles a year. it is a crime what the insurance companys do. BUT......How many regestered Cobras are on the roads ? If everybody wrote a letter (maybe 30,000 nation wide)would it make a difference ? I think we are screwed by the lack of numbers.We have the ultimate rich boy toy and in the end we'll just have to pay!!!! and pay and pay and pay...

Your rates went up because the Ins. company lost money in the stock market and someone has to make up the losses-and it might as well be you(us)

I wonder what a '71 HEMI Cuda Convertible owner is paying?

[vette killer]

Guys;
I will answer you one by one and thanks to you all for the discussion.
Dean; I can afford the premium-it's a fairness issue and has nothing to do with whether driving is a right or a privilege.Also I'm not fretting about the 'vettes or anything else..Please understand that the vette thing is just an example.My policy premium is $633.00. for the same exact policy from the same company and for the same stated value the '66 vette gets $292.50 with no mileage or purpose restrictions (I'm limited to parades and shows only).That means that I cannot take my wife out for an ice cream cone,get hit by a pickup truck and be covered for the loss.
That's just wrong!!!About the enjoyment part-I think this is a lot of fun!You my not agree with any of this and I respect your position,but there will be many more who want not to be ripped off and who will do a little work to try and set it straight. As for taking the tack that the companies are charging us a fair rate,remember;it is the only service that you pay for in advance,and once you use it,you are penalized with an increase in the premium or they drop you completely and in addition they will use any excuse at all not to pay the claim.Look at it this way,Dean-they already have your money.
Roscoe; As a New Jersey transplant living in Montana,I respectfully submit that as a section of the driving population,kit car owner/builders are no more safe or unsafe as compared to the general driving public. If you have statistics pro or con let me have'em.
PMfranke That's the spirit! The legislators want to hear from us of course but remember that it is a fairness issue,not necessarily an issue of numbers.
Cobradan; If you are required by law to have insurance,then it has to be applied fairly.
A note to all:In addition to high rates, there is no consistancy from company to company because there is no regulation. Personally I would like to be able to shop around for insurance and not have every companys' policy be different from the next.I would like to have them compete for my business, thus lowering premiums, and I would like to "bundle" all of my insurance with one company to get a discount. When I tried this recently,Trinity would insure everything except (you guessed it) my kit car.
Lastly, it is difficult for me to believe that anyone would defend an Insurance company unless you are an insurance agent. I work for Exxonmobil and I know what rippin'off is all about,and you won't hear me defending them just because I have to use their product.
Thanks
Vette Killer

[Todd Spence]

Vette Killer, I'm an insurance agent and I wouldn't put up $119 every six months of my own money to cover a $65,000 superformance in Dallas county which is what I'm paying now. I didn't write my own policy. I shopped around and found a great rate. Note, the only reason they would give me that rate was other business they wanted to keep. I have no problem with some companies not wanting to write the business because I guarantee they lose money on this line of business. If it was a profitable line trust me they would all be trying to write it as Insurance companies are as greedy as they come. If you call 6 companies you will get 6 different prices. Most companies have no specailty in cobras and that's probably why they are still writing them. The companies like Hagarty that wrote alot of them lost too much money and now don't do them. Don't get frustrated, just take the time to find a company that wants the business.

[olddog]

I must point out a major flaw in your legal argument.

By law you are required to insure your liability. This is to assure that you have the means to remedy any financial damage that you may cause to others. Actually you are not required to do this via an insurance policy. You must be able to prove you have the means to cover the state minimum requirement. Many (if not most) large companies do not insure their autos. They simply say we have billions of dollars of assets, and we can cover any damages we may cause.

You are not required by law to insure any personal loss of your privately owned property.

So your argument is only valid, if the insurance industry refused to sell you a liability policy. There is nothing to compel them to insure your private property.

[Barnsnake]

A key difference:
The 1966 Corvette is a collector car.
A Cobra Replica is a hot rod.

I suspect the average driving style for the hot rod is somewhat more agressive.

[427 S/O]

Wonder if there are any stats on claims for covered classic/hot rod owners?, My insurance agent said he was making good money off guys like us because he knows we (most) take exceptional care, keep them garaged and drive very few miles.

[Joe Wicked]

Originally Posted by olddog

I must point out a major flaw in your legal argument.

By law you are required to insure your liability. This is to assure that you have the means to remedy any financial damage that you may cause to others. Actually you are not required to do this via an insurance policy. You must be able to prove you have the means to cover the state minimum requirement. Many (if not most) large companies do not insure their autos. They simply say we have billions of dollars of assets, and we can cover any damages we may cause.

You are not required by law to insure any personal loss of your privately owned property.

So your argument is only valid, if the insurance industry refused to sell you a liability policy. There is nothing to compel them to insure your private property.

My company goes as far as to tell us that when we rent a car on a trip, do not pay for the insurance. If we do, we will not be reimbursed. They figured out that they were paying more in insurance premiums each year than they would pay out in an accident on average.

[CobraDan]

I live here in Florida for the past 10 years and the larger home insurance companies are dropping home insurance like crazy as they got badly burnt 2 years back to back because of Hurricanes. If Cobras were only parked in there garages and not driven on the streets no one would have been killed in a cobra but that’s not the case and when this happens large sums of money are paid out and every insurance company likes collecting money from customers not paying out to customers. The first Cobra insurance company I was with got burnt and stopped writing Cobra insurance, they didn’t drop me but my premium just got higher each year until I looked else where for insurance. Soon I will be looking for home insurance as everyone I know has been dropped here in Florida.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Vette Killer;

I understand your point and agree on a lot of it,but, in a free interprise society, the insurance companies can and do compete for business like any other company......Cobra business is NOT something a lot of companies want or need, it is very risky at best,usually a losing proposition............

Different companies charge different rates much the same way other companies do...for example: In my small home town there is an Auto Zone, there is also another one in a large city 25 miles away. In the large city Auto Zone, prices are generally 25% lower for the same item than in my home town Auto Zone, because of competition in the large city....I don't like it, but it is a fact of life, much the same way with auto insurance..........

Most companies DON'T want to insure Cobras,hence the high rates....they have been proven to be a losing proposition, it's as simple as that..........shop around, there are deals to be found, it just takes a little time and leg work.............

On another note; if you were the head of any auto insurance company, what would you rather insure:

1.- a 2400 pound Cobra with 500+ hp driven by a guy that may or may not have much if any expirence driving high powered cars......

2. a 50+ year old guy with a classic 66 Vette that probably will get driven a few hundred miles a year if that and then very carefully when driven..
??????????????????????????

David

[CobraDan]

You could always do as the new Governor of Florida has done and mandate
that the insurance companies give us customers cheaper rates after their humongous increases after the hurricane seasons of 2004-2005 and their huge pay outs. Rather than go along with the governor most are dropping home owners insurance in the state of Florida and looking for states that have minimum danger from disasters that could bring about a claim and moving on.