Update on Canadian & Kalifornian goose-steppers

[Cobrabill]

Awhile back i posted something about Canadas new street racing law,where the cop is judge & jury and can have your car crushed without do process.Here's an update:
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Ontario Bill 203 was supposed to be a proposal to combat street racing, but it's just politics at its worst.

A private member's bill was proposed in the spring of 2006 and was pretty much shot down. The bill has always included the controversial issue of "officer discretion" on whether the driver was "racing" or not.

About the only well-thought issue that 203 contained was making it illegal to run nitrous on the street. As hard as it is to imagine, before 203, it was not illegal to have a fully operational nitrous system on your street car.

With 203, the system can be in place, without the bottle connected, but if the bottle is connected, you are in trouble. Good on 203 for this: nitrous is for the drag strip, and that's where it should stay. There was no 50 km/h-over issue on the Bill 203 proposal.

The elected official who conceived many parts of 203 is Newmarket MP Frank Klees. Mr. Klees was the minister of transportation in the early part of this century.

I had an argument over the phone with Klees in the spring of 2006 when a "safer roads" bill was initially proposed. My argument was simple: the new law could sink a car enthusiast who is doing nothing wrong, other than simply driving his or her modified car.

It's because the bill negatively profiles the modified car enthusiast and gives the officer full discretion, with no due process for the accused. Pretty simple, a copper having a bad day can screw a car enthusiast simply because he chooses to. When I suggested that this will happen often if 203 becomes law, Klees told me he "could live with that."

I was relieved that the proposed bill got shot down.

But then in May 2006, the accident that killed Rob and Lisa Manchester, and which left their 8-year-old daughter an orphan, hit the headlines. This accident took place in Klees' riding. The accident was blamed on "street racers," reportedly travelling 150 km/h in an 80 km/h zone when Manchester made a left-hand turn into the path of the two "racers."

With the Manchester deaths, there was no way the government could continue to brush off 203 and Klees, and understandably so. Street racing killed two members of Klees' own riding and he was the man already pushing the proposal.

By the spring of this year, you'd have to be on another planet to not realize that 203 was going through. The media wheel was turning at full speed – every accident headline involving "speed" was replaced with "street racing."

We had Prime Minister Stephen Harper spewing the term, Premier Dalton McGuinty following suit, and (now former) attorney-general Michael Bryant was threatening to crush cars. Then OPP chief Julian Fantino chimed in with "50 km/h over is street racing," in his opinion, and he wants a plane.

By June 2007, those of us in the enthusiast community were pointing out that only 0.12 per cent of traffic deaths are related to "street racing," and "What the hell is the inspiration for these draconian proposals?" And then whammo, Bill 203 gets royal assent. And funny, just before it received assent, the 50 km/h-over penalties were added.

In an interesting feat of timing, the boys charged in the influential accident that killed the Manchesters were due for sentencing right around the time that Bill 203's provisions were to become official.

Then a few facts started coming out. The boys were not doing 150 km/h, but actually 112 km/h. Manchester was drunk, twice over the limit. The judge ruled that the boys were not street racing, and that Manchester's alcohol level was a factor.

You have to wonder how Manchester's condition was overlooked, considering his death was exploited as a result of "street racers" for 14 months. When the fact is, had Manchester lived, he would have been facing serious DUI charges. I'm sure everyone involved will claim they didn't know, but I will always be convinced that it was nothing more than politics at its worst.

I understand that, as of last week, more than 1,300 vehicles have been seized under the new legislation. I'm not sure how many were "street racing" versus driving 50 km/h-over, but at $2,000 a judgment, it seems that Fantino might have just paid for that plane he wanted. And we will all be reminded how much safer our roads are now.

Those who express shock and outrage at people brushing off 130-140-150 km/h as not being that fast in today's machinery will find that the new "street racing" legislation will morph as time goes by.

And they may express more shock and outrage when they nonchalantly coast down an 80 km/h back road on a Sunday drive, inadvertently speed up to 100 km/h as they coast down a hill and get dinged for 50 km/h over as they enter a 50 km/h zone where the OPP are hiding. They'll then get a life-altering financial burden under legislation designed to combat street racers and make roads safer.

The car enthusiast community will continue to fight this new legislation. The law leaving the officer to be judge and jury on the side of the road and levy these types of punishments violates our Charter of Rights.

Similar laws are in place in Florida, and recently a judge there ruled in a case that the "street racing" charges made at the discretion of the officer were "unconstitutional."

So it's only a matter of time before our new visionless law gets scrapped.

It's a real shame when politicians lack vision and common sense and make knee-jerk decisions based on their heart strings. It's even worse when they let law enforcement swoop in and capitalize on a potential cash cow.

It's not about making our roads safer and ridding the roads of street racers. The ERASE (Eliminate Racing Activities on Streets Everywhere) project was designed to do that.

When ERASE ran out of applicable fines for the 0.12 per cent of trouble on the road, police started hanging out at the racetrack entrances to hassle and fine drivers who were taking it to the track. Yep, the program encouraging you to take it to the track was trying to bust you when you took it to the track.

For what it's worth, along with being a car freak, I'm a 40-year-old business professional, husband and homeowner.

And I haven't had a traffic violation charge in more than 20 years. And I am mad as hell that this legislation was passed.

My late father (also an enthusiast) taught me that the roads are a dangerous place. The highways are even more dangerous. The cars I was raised around were dangerous – they could kill you in a second.

No crumple zones, no ABS, no traction control, no airbags, some had no seatbelts, and none of them had eight cupholders or GPS. I was also informed early on that I would be learning to drive with a manual gearbox.

Maybe it's time to take a step back in what we promote. I've heard some suggest that head injuries in professional hockey today could be improved if helmets were not mandatory. Pretty simple theory: you give much more respect for others' safety when you're not wrapped up in a suit of armour.

Today's roads are seriously dangerous and will not become safer. And no matter what the manufacturers tell you, the car will not save you.

Deal with it responsibly or stay off the road.
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Heres another up date.This one was in the Peoples Republik of Kalifornia:


Recently they crushed a Honda here in CA. It was well publicized. When you heard the cops talking about it, their verbiage was really specific. "Illegal Parts" "Illegal Engine".... Come to find the kid had installed a JDM engine, and a Transmission that had the VIN ground off.

They said it was for "Street Racing" but the kid was pulled over on a routine traffic stop for 'Compliance Checking' because of his rims and lowered suspension. All totally legal.

But you know the kid must have played the 'You're racially profiling me because I'm Asian!' and the routine vehicle roadside check went downhill from there...
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These two stories are prima facia evidence that the "envirowackos and the safety NAZIs" are after our cars.And they won't let the facts get in the way of their agenda.And the MSM is in bed with them.

[Ron61]

Bill,

At one time we had a state, Wyoming I believe it was that had no speed limit out on the open highways except to stay at a speed that was safe for the conditions. They also let the state police make the decisions. And as all things go, they ruined it. I don't think a patrolman should be allowed to make any judgements such as this. To much this is my friend so 90 MPH is safe but this is an out of state car and 70 MPH is unsafe so he gets a ticket. Also right here in this small town a year ago we had a CHP pull over a man's wife that I know while she was driving their new Bronco. He was going to ticket her and have the Bronco impounded because it was to long. It was brand new and had just been delivered. No modifications at all and less than 200 miles on it. Fortunately this guy has money and he took it to court and the judge threw the case out and told the local CHP that they are there to enforce laws not make them up, that any new car from the factory has already been built to meet length and width standards. I just see more and more of the rights of people being taken away, not only regarding automobiles but everything. And this is not to knock the cops as most of them are good people trying to do a dirty job, but there are always a few jerks in any profession and all are judged by them. This particular officer was transferred out of the area.

Ron

[trularin]

I am not sure, but I would have to pick another hobby if I couldn't drive the car.

I suppose something like knitting, beanie babies or amateur nuclear reactors.

[Wes Tausend]

Bill,

It is scary. It seems that all our individual rights are slowly disappearing ...and a sorry package of, "it's good for the republic", is being shoved down our throats. What's scary is that this country was fought for ...and founded... on individual rights vs federal monarch type control. Individual rights won, at least for a while. What an unpatriotic shame to lose blood and have posterity throw it all away.

Ron,

Perhaps it was Montana that had an open speed limit. I think it read something to the effect that any "reasonable and prudent " speed was legal. It allowed discretion by H.P. ...but it is surprising how lenient some were. Our local Corvette club was able to take periodic high speed interstate runs to Billings. Corvettes (and Vipers) were designed for higher speeds and commonly deemed safe at speeds around 100 mph, or more.

Of course there is always a few on both sides to abuse the relaxed laws by driving fast junk ...or the "Nader, unsafe at any speed" no matter what H.P. bunch.


...

[Ron61]

Wes,

You are right, I do believe that it was Montana. I just wasn't sure which state had it for a while. It wouldn't have helped me as I have never had a car that would go that fast anyway. And since Kristen wouldn't let Fred or I break in her new Shelby Mustang, I guess I never will.

Ron

[Cobrabill]

One of the problems is what is being produced at the Police Academy these days.Did you know that Cadets can no longer "wash-out"?They keep getting recycled untill they pass.I know of one Cadet(female-of course)here in Tucson that was recycled FOUR TIMES.These people aren't cops-they're A$$holes with badges.

[Ron61]

Bill,

Tell me about the lousy training and people they give badges to. We get all the newly crowned ones out here for their first year or so of actual training and most of them are on the big power trip. I went into the police station once to report that the dopers here were having a big fight and there were 7 of them sitting on their butts and they told me they don't go to houses. I asked them if I shot and killed some of these idiots, then unless I did it in the police station they wouldn't bother to come look, is that right. I thought they were going to arrest me right then, and it does no good at all to call dispatch as they will claim they either don't have anyone to send, all to busy doing important stuff like polishing their new badges, or that they dispatched a unit and the police here will claim they never received anything from dispatch. And they can't understand why many of the people around here carry guns.

Ron

[Cobrabill]

One of the reasons i love Az. is the open carry law.You should see the looks i get walking into Wells Fargo with a .45 on my hip.

[Ron61]

Bill,

Many of us here have carry permits but I just don't like the idea that I feel I need to carry a gun to walk down the street. And at times I think we need protection from some of our cops as much as the dopers. And I am not knocking all cops as we do have some darn good ones here, but they are so limited by the dam insane laws we have that they can't do anything until after the crime has been committed. I have to go over to the range again soon and shoot some as I haven't done so for quite a while. Just to many meth labs around here and this area must supply the world with marijuana. And they even shoot at the DEA agents and law enforcement when they go to raid another of the big pot gardens.

Ron

[Cobrabill]

Ron-big difference between here & there.I'm not wearing it when i'm in the supermarket(etc).I'm in the foothills.All sorts of dangerous critters afoot.Mtn Lions,Bobcats,Coyotes & Javelinas.We raise horses,miniature horses & miniature Donkeys.Their welfare is first and foremost.If i'm out working the ranch,i'm armed.Laws are different here.

Example:If your dog attacked one of my horses,i have the right to pursue the dog and kill it.Even if it retreated to your living room.

[Ron61]

Bill,

You are right about a big difference, but I live in the foothills too and the ranchers around here have the same rights as you do to protect their livestock except they can't enter another persons house with a gun out and shoot anything in the house. Several have shot dogs that were attacking their live stock while the dogs were in their fields. But I don't believe that you have the dope problems we do. I have been miles up in the canyons and stumbled across an old camping trail, God only knows how they got it there, that would be a Meth lab. We used to have lions and a variety of other animals and still have several bears and wild hogs that you need to watch out for. But I would prefer to run into them any day than some of these dopers.

Edited to correct some mispelled words. Just so you will know Jamo

Ron

[Wayne Maybury]

It is interesting how these laws are promoted, etc.

Quebec's Transport Minister is trying to table a law similar to the one in Ontario. Last week as she left a press conference, a couple of reporters followed her in her Gov't limo going 32 km over the speed limit. It made front page headlines the next day. Her excuse, she was asleep in the back seat and didn't know how fast her driver was going.

The Capital of Quebec is Quebec City but the biggest city is Montreal which is about 150 miles away. It is a well know fact that Gov't limos always travel at very high speed on the highway that connects the two cities. This has been going on for years and will continue to go on.

Wayne

[Buzz]

Interesting laws in Az!

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

Ron-big difference between here & there.I'm not wearing it when i'm in the supermarket(etc).I'm in the foothills.All sorts of dangerous critters afoot.Mtn Lions,Bobcats,Coyotes & Javelinas.We raise horses,miniature horses & miniature Donkeys.Their welfare is first and foremost.If i'm out working the ranch,i'm armed.Laws are different here.

Example:If your dog attacked one of my horses,i have the right to pursue the dog and kill it.Even if it retreated to your living room.

Wow. If someone runs into my living room with a .45 in his hand or on his hip, the welfare of his miniature donkeys would be the least of his problems. If my dog is in fact guilty as charged and you don't shoot him in the act or at least on your property, it would be far wiser (trust me on this) to seek due process by going to the police instead of entering my property brandishing a gun!

[Ron61]

Buzz,

I think Bill was just trying to get the point across that we live in completely different environments. I live in the most dope infested area in the country and he has problems with wild animals. The ranchers here are allowed to protect their livestock, but they can't go to any one's house and shoot a dog no matter if they chased it all the way home. If they are having domestic dog problems and can't get the dog while it is on their property, they can follow it and then call Animal Control and they will take care of it. As for the bears and such, they can and do shoot them, but fortunately they stay up in the mountains and canyons for the most part unless their food supply gets short, and this drought is causing some of them to come into town and rummage through garbage cans and bins. As you said, if anyone around here ran into someones house with a gun in their hand, they had best be shooting or they will be shot. That is the blessings that the dopers have brought to this area. Trust no one that you don't know. Sad and it wasn't that way when I first moved up here, but has grown worse every year.

Ron

[Cobrabill]

Here's the statute copied from the Az website.Buzz,in the situation you describe,YOU would be the one going to jail.Assuming you survived.

3-1311. Dogs killing or chasing livestock; liability of owner; classification

A. If any person discovers a dog killing, wounding or chasing livestock, or discovers a dog under circumstances which show conclusively that it has recently killed or chased livestock, he may pursue and kill the dog.

B. The owner of a dog is liable for damages caused by the dog chasing livestock. In the case of a dog killing or wounding livestock, the owner of the dog is liable for damages to the owner of the livestock equal to three times the value of the livestock killed or wounded.

C. An owner of a dog who intentionally or recklessly allows or causes the dog to:

1. Wound or kill livestock owned by another person is guilty of a class 1 misdemeanor.

2. Chase livestock owned by another person, causing injury to the livestock, is guilty of a class 3 misdemeanor.

[HI Cobra]

Cobrabill,

I'd be willing to bet that your marksmanship is such that you wouldn't have
to chase the guilty dog that far to nail him!

[Cobrabill]

True(and thank-you)However,you just can't go tossing rounds down-range without knowing what's behind the target.Hence,a pursuit untill a safe shot would be in order.

[Excaliber]

Hawaii speeding law is 30 mph over posted or 80 mph anywhere is 'exessive speeding', pretty tough potential sentence, including jail time. It's SO serious a Judge requires you to have a lawyer if you plead not guilty.

The numbers: About 40% are for speeding 30 mph over posted, the rest 80 mph or more. LOTS of 25 mph posted areas on the Island, some of them downright stupid with such a low number. I've found myself on my motorcycle just keeping up with the flow of traffic in one posted 25 mph area, and EVERYONE was doing 50 or better! I could see 55 if you weren't being careful.

Recently those with excessive tickets who pled not guilty WALKED out of court, charges dismissed. The law currently is unenforcable, heres why. Lawyers are asking the prosecution for records of the radar and/or calibration of the patrol speedometers, prosecutors are arguing about how much and what data is applicable to give the defense. The single garage in town who calibrates the police speedometers (the owner) has been subpeoned several times to answer questions about the calibration methods, he refuses to come to court. Says he's 'to busy', and likely he is, but until the issue is resolved no enforcement will be possible.

[Cobrabill]

Ex-here's something else to dig in to:Here a "speed survey" MUST be done every four years to determine if the state has set the prudent speed limit for that particular road.So if you get a ticket,and you ask them when was the last survey done,and their replay is 2001-you walk.

[Excaliber]

Good call Cobrabill, should I ever need it (hopefully never) I'll pass that on to my lawyer!