A question for TV experts

[Ron61]

Wayne,

No the only thing you will need from Dish Network if you want to go Hi Def is a Hi Def receiver and the third LNB added to your dish. If you don't want to buy a Hi Def TV right now then you don't need anything from Dish Network for your main TV. It is the ones on the antenna that you will have to have the converter for. The one that connects to your Dish Receiver will still get the picture just as well but it just won't be Hi Def. Did you happen to watch any of this years NASCAR races? Several of them were broadcast in Hi Def and I get the same picture as I always do, just not the Hi Def one which is better. I even have my satellite receiver ran through my VCR and then to the TV, as I like to rent movies on DVD from time to time and I need the VCR to play them. But if I want to watch one channel and record another or just record something that is done on the DVD drive in the satellite receiver. Mine us a small one and will only record 150 hours. Then it will shut off and you have to delete some of what you have on there if you want to record more. I normally just delete everything I have recorded when I am through recording some things.

Ron

[Joe Wicked]

Originally Posted by Bugman

I guess this means I'll have to geet rid of my 25 yr old RCA that has been a faithful friend..

There are a lot of good deals on TVs but remember, if you are using cable or satellite there is nothing you need to change. It will only affect you if you are getting your signal over the air using a regular antenna. If you do not want to get a new TV a converter box will be much cheaper than a new TV.

A lot of HDTVs will still require a converter box as well. A lot of people do not realize that. When the HDTVs first came out they were "HD ready" meaning that the screen could display HD, but they did not have the Digital Tuner built into the TV, only the analog. You had to use an external tuner (converter box).

[Ron61]

Joe,

I am not sure about this being a law here, but I don't think it is yet. But the last time I was in looking at TV sets they had signs telling which TVs would need the converter box and which ones had it built in. I think they had just gotten in a new bunch that had it built in and they had the TVs in three groups. The regular analog type, the ones that were Hi Def ready, and the newer ones that had the Hi Def built in. In any case if anyone isn't sure, they should ask one of the people working in the stores electronics department if they are the newer ones or not, if they don't have the signs telling which is which.

Ron

[Joe Wicked]

Originally Posted by Ron61

Joe,

I am not sure about this being a law here, but I don't think it is yet. But the last time I was in looking at TV sets they had signs telling which TVs would need the converter box and which ones had it built in. I think they had just gotten in a new bunch that had it built in and they had the TVs in three groups. The regular analog type, the ones that were Hi Def ready, and the newer ones that had the Hi Def built in. In any case if anyone isn't sure, they should ask one of the people working in the stores electronics department if they are the newer ones or not, if they don't have the signs telling which is which.

Ron

Good that they are doing that, and yes, if you are not sure, it is better to ask before you buy. Most new HDTVs will come with the tuner built in but not all. I was referring more to the people who have an HDTV and are assuming that since they have one, they are set. That may not be the case. Same thing though. If you do not know for sure that your TV has the tuner and you are using a regular Antenna, then it is best to find out before the date. A lot of people are going to wait and then suddenly will not be able to watch TV. There will be a run on the electronics stores to get converters and I am expecting that some people will be waiting to get a converter to watch TV. Cable and Sat providers are really pushing how if you get them for service, you do not have to worry about it, trying to get more customers.

[Ron61]

I figured there would be a big rush for the converter boxes and I am sure that the prices for them will at least double for a while around here. The last snow we had several years ago, $150 dollar chain saws were selling for $500 and you couldn't even buy a new chain for any price as they don't stock much here. On the good side, very few people here and in the mountains have antennas. They are all on satellite or cable.

Ron

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by Bugman

I guess this means I'll have to geet rid of my 25 yr old RCA that has been a faithful friend..

A 25 year-old RCA?!!You're lucky it was around for 25 minutes.It deserves a proper burial.

[Ron61]

Bill,

If it has been working that long he should sell it back to RCA or whoever owns the company now so they can see how they built one that would last past the warranty.

Ron

[Joe Wicked]

LOL good chance you could get enough to buy a new HDTV.

[Cobrabill]

Ron,RCA was a proud name with quality products once.ONCE.It went in the crapper late 60's early 70s.By the early 80s it's TVs were junk and it's cable gear was even worse.Back then the two best sets on the planet were Sony & Curtis Mathis.Sadly,even CM is now gone.

[bomelia]

Wayne,

Here is a forum that is far and beyond one of the best places to learn about Audio/Video technology.

http://www.avsforum.com/

Take your time and do the research. Its is a big field.

Mike

[Scott S]

Originally Posted by Ron61

The last snow we had several years ago, $150 dollar chain saws were selling for $500 and you couldn't even buy a new chain for any price as they don't stock much here.

Next time you got a tree problem....



Scott S

[J. T. Toad]

I like plasmas better. Go to a superstore, look at the same picture presented on different TV's. Manufacturers are not alike.

but for your perusal...

http://tv.suite101.com/article.cfm/lcd_vs_plasma_vs_dlp

http://www.highdefforum.com/index.php?

http://basketball.suite101.com/article.cfm/tv

http://www.highdefforum.com/index.php?

with the new flat scree (with integrated digital tuner) get a PS3, you'll be popular with the kids AND you'll never watch another
movie that isn't blu-ray again, yes that includes a theater.

Ron, or others could answer this better than I, but one criticism I have heard about the pizza dishes is that resolution loss from the uplink (ie they don't transmit in 720P) as opposed to some free air transmissions which I have received in 1080P which wow wee by golly, THAT is a picture more clear than I see in real life!

just trying to help.

[Ron61]

Bill,

How long have you had your Plasma TV and do they still generate a lot of heat and have any picture quality loss after a few years?

Ron

[Joe Wicked]

Originally Posted by J. T. Toad

Ron, or others could answer this better than I, but one criticism I have heard about the pizza dishes is that resolution loss from the uplink (ie they don't transmit in 720P) as opposed to some free air transmissions which I have received in 1080P which wow wee by golly, THAT is a picture more clear than I see in real life!

just trying to help.

That is what the 3rd LNB is for. My HD service is 1080p through Dish Network. If you have the older dish, then yes it is not true HD, but being upconverted to simulate HD.

[Ron61]

Joe,

By older dish do you mean one with two LNBs or is there an actual size difference in the one you have and the one I have with 2 LNBs?

Ron

[Joe Wicked]

Originally Posted by Ron61

Bill,

How long have you had your Plasma TV and do they still generate a lot of heat and have any picture quality loss after a few years?

Ron

Ron, the newer Plasmas do not generate as much heat as the old ones, but they still generate a lot more than an LCD or DLP will generate. The picture is better, and the screen has a longer life, but there is still a finite amount of time that the screen will last. An LCD will last much much longer than a Plasma, but the picture is no where near as vivid. Both Plasma and LCD have a limited viewing angle. Too far to the side and you start seeing a negative image. A DLP picture is in the middle of the 2. Closer to the Plasma than the LCD. They use a bulb (LED in a lot of new models) to light through a series of color wheels and then reflected off of millions of tiny mirrors. The bulbs (like mine) have a finite life as well, but cost about $100 to replace. The bulbs have to warm up and generally right at startup, there is a bluing effect until it warms up. The LED does not have to warm and does not have the bluing effect. The LED also consumes less power than the older bulb variety.

The avs forum that bomelia posted is a good forum for research. A lot of experts on there. I joined that site years ago, but I haven't visited in a long while and can't remember my login. It is still one of my first stops to do research before I buy a new product.

[J. T. Toad]

Ron,
I have had mine for 6 months, my dad has had one for three years. They do generate heat but I really don't feel they draw excessive power, nor do I feel they run that much hotter than a tube TV. I have never heard the cooling fans turn on, but I don't have them tightly enclosed either.

Most Plasmas are guaranteed to 20-60,000 hours, do the math for your typical viewing time, you'll be wanting one of those Lasar TV's by then

But to answer your question, I really haven't noticed any degradation in picture quality. But, we are not extreme TV-aholics either.

Joe,
Plasmas have a great viewing angle and there is no negative picture from any angle, one of the reasons I got it.

the Plasma vs. LCD wars are as passionate and Ford vs. _________ (insert other auto maker here)

I could list the specific pro-cons for either, but I don't feel like spending the time today. Look at the links I posted.

one thing I will add, the profit margin is better on LCD's/DLP's than Plasmas which is why most retailers will push those and perpetuate unreasonable downplay of plasma models.

[Joe Wicked]

JT,
It may have been just the one I looked at, but that was one of the reasons I did not get a plasma. I have a couch that is off to the side of the TV and when approximating the angle, I saw a negative picture. Maybe there was something wrong with the floor model.

[Wes Tausend]

...


There is a lot of good info here. One worthy source of digital tuners that was missed is that of the newest DVD recorders. The off-air digital tuner is built-in ...but will only record Hi-Def digital shows in slightly lesser DVD quality. Still, it's pretty good, even on large screens (I have a 51 inch monitor in a family room). The point of the rest of my whole long post, here, is that standard definition digital TV and DVD video's are so good that they are suitable High Definition substitutes ...but they do benefit further from a recent sharper monitor.

An example of a low cost DVD recorder with off-air digital tuner would be the $190 Panasonic DMREZ17K at Walmart: ( http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=5715955 ).
I don't actually own one of these, but am substituting an even cheaper DVD analog-limited recorder along with an off-air digital tuner box for the time being in a family room. An Olevia LCD HDTV in a bedroom tunes in free locally broadcast HD off cable furnished through a cable with no set-top box. It tunes in the digital channels above the standard 76 analog no-box channels, with NBC-HD,CBS-HD and PBS HD & National purposely showing up in full splendor locally. I imagine a DVD recorder w/digital tuner may do the same. Off-air network HD makes excellent, very sharp DVD's.

While not quite high definition, standard digital TV directly off my cable box works so well, I was recently able to record crisp medium quality 1 hour each DVD factory tours on the Corvette Z06, Ferrari and BMW. The video undergoes an analog cable transfer in this case, but still works quite well. Using re-recordable DVD discs and editing features, it's easy to make a master so good and commercial-free that, using Nero DVD software (on a regular computer), one can reproduce permanent DVD's that nearly rival factory sold counterparts. Permanent blank DVD's sell for less than 25 cents each these days and are easy to store. Most DVD recorders will record directly to permanent blank DVD's as well, but the edits may not be effective on other DVD players. I found the one downside to recording digital TV is that the hidden closed captioning did not come through the cable box whereas any TV will find and turn on CC on analog channel recordings, when desired.

With a very ordinary TV, it's also possible to simply watch off-air digital TV through a recorder, record on DVD as one watches at the same time or, in some cases, simultaneously watch the beginning of a show while the rest finishes recording(DVD-RAM). The flaw is that the picture will likely be downgraded to S-video or composite(yellow RCA cable) quality. On an old analog TV set, this won't matter since the picture will still be superior to standard over-the-air analog broadcasts. Programs broadcast in Widescreen even come through in Widescreen whether watching or recording. So older TV's will have bars, top and bottom. Big plus: I have found 2 different football games on the same local off-air network, analog vs digital!

While most of us are familiar with the old VCR-only machine, I haven't seen any with a digital tuner(ATSC), only analog(NTSC). Most only-VCR's offered recently do not have any tuner as manufacturers struggle with marketing the new digital tuner inclusion requirements. There is a good practical reason for this since the old VCR format, at it's best, produces a grainy picture of lesser quality than some live off-the-air analog broadcasts, while DVD is superior to live off-the-air analog broadcasts(such as The Tonight Show, about 330 lines). DVD's offer exactly double the resolution (sharpness) of the old VCR format, 240 to 480 lines. Note that this now HD-live show, which once used high quality analog cameras, was one of the first to go NBC HD by using excellent HD digital cameras. Non-live re-runs are noticably degraded (network recording loss) on any TV 27 inch or larger. Smaller sets don't easily reveal the poorer picture on re-runs.

Larger screens really bring out the shortcomings of the old VCR tapes. We may cringe at the rapid pace of new technology being offered, but the idea of using DVD recorders is just about a practical necessity for those of us that have already upgraded our TV's to 36 inch or over. A commercial DVD movie looks pretty good on a 51 inch widescreen but an identical-movie VCR tape looks blurry. So buying a DVD recorder with a built-in digital tuner makes sense in that it kills two birds with one stone as a hedge for the future. Except in the case of extremely large screens, I don't think that HiDef disc is going to take off that well meaning that DVD will be around for a long time. As an example, audio has stayed with CD quality ...or even backslid to more lossy MP3, rather than new HD audio formats.

Again, back to the subject of digital TV. I don't have direct satellite TV ...but I do have local cable with a digital package which is taken off satellite, of course, so I'll guess that reception, cable or satellite, is pretty much identical. Since the cable conversion is made digitally, there is no inherent quality loss in this first step. The first 76 channels are merely old analog quality ...but they are reproduced perfectly with digital technology ...along with all their original flaws. The digital channels are noticably improved. The best rival medium quality DVD commercial movie resolution, in practical viewing.

Which brings us back to DVD recorders. I have found some newer DVD recorders will record digital TV, with very little loss in quality, as long as a 1 hour or 2 hour setting is chosen, but not much longer. This is in spite of recordings that may be made using ordinary analog-to-analog connections such as Composite or S-video(a DVD recorder with a digital tuner may record more directly). I don't think any recorders allow true super-high-quality analog Component-to-Component (red, blue, green cable) recordings, nor do they allow digital-to-digital recording such as DVI or HDMI.

For those that might like to low-ball a DVD recorder, Walmart sells another DVD recorder, besides the Panasonic, that works rather well. I found them on sale locally for $50 each because they do not have a built-in digital tuner and are becoming obsolete. See ( http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=5027235 ). What makes these Chinese SV2000's so special is that they work better than many more expensive machines ...and they are so cheap at $50 that I bought a couple of spares because even many replacement remotes cost that much. I expect eventual possible remote failure because the buttons are used to repeatedly type in names on the disc's. They also work great for tranfering video to a master disc from older analog video cameras of weddings, graduations etc. Like I mentioned earlier, Nero (part of many new computer packages) will spit out an additional perfect $0.25 DVD copy every few minutes for distribution to relatives etc. I've had no failures in over 100 discs. Some other pluses to this SV2000 player/recorder are that it has a .8x or 1.3x speed play (normal sound pitch) setting that allows clarifying speech(.8x) or watching in a shorter(1.3x) time frame. It also has a 30 second jump-ahead incremental button to fast forward past up to 3 minutes of commercials. It records in all +R, -R or +/-RW formats (but not DVD-RAM). It has a 2 1/2 hour setting that records better than full 3 hour settings(1, 2, 2.5, 3, 4, 6 hr). It sets it's own clock off PBS, if you like. It plays/records excellent picture quality.

One caution: Some low cost Chinese players such as Magnavox are related to an ILO brand player that actually wrecked good discs for me and did not make good copies with Nero. Other Magnavox units may be the same as SV2000 and should be OK.

...

[Ron61]

Wes,

I don't like Nero. I have it in one of my computers and about half the time when I start to open a disk it won't open it but the files are on it as I can go into Explorer and get them off. I started using a scaled down version of Power To go that was stuck on the computer just to see how it worked and to me it is far better than Nero. So now I use Power To go as I got tired of the darn Nero telling me the disk was blank but if I tried to burn another file to it, it would tell me there were files on the disk and it had to be formatted.

Ron