"Stop, Don’t Consent to that Search!”

[cobra de capell]

"Stop, Don’t Consent to that Search!”
Carrie Latabia Jones
Guest Columnist EdNews.org


How many times have we seen it? Someone is pulled over for a traffic violation, or maybe just a routine traffic stop, and the next thing you know his or her car is being searched. Nevertheless, most of the time, it is with the consent of the of the person being stopped. Why are you consenting to a search when there is no probable cause for one? The answer is simple, people are not aware of their rights.

The Constitution and the protections that it guarantees can be a bit daunting to "just regular ole' folks," but the gist of it goes something like this:

·Police may initiate a conversation with any citizen for any reason, however they may not detain you without "reasonable suspicion" that you are engaged in criminal activity. When you are stopped, you should ask the officer, "Why am I being stopped?" If the officer does not indicate that you are suspected of a specific crime, then this is a casual stop and you should be allowed to terminate the encounter at any time, but if the officer indicates that you are suspected of criminal activity, you are being detained.

·If a police officer asks your permission to search, you are under no obligation to consent. The only reason he is asking you is may be he does not have enough evidence to search without your consent. If you consent to a search request, you give up your Fourth Amendment protection against unreasonable searches and seizures, Scheneckloth v. Bustamonte, 412 U.S., 93 S. Ct. 2041, 36 L.Ed.2d 854 (1973).

Generally, if a person consents to a warrantless search, the search automatically becomes reasonable and therefore legal. Consequently, whatever an officer finds during such a search generally can be used to convict the person.


Do not expect a police officer to tell you about your right not to consent. Generally, police officers are not required by law to inform you of your rights before asking you to consent to a search. If, for any reason you don't want the officer digging through your belongings, after you have consented to the search, you should tell himthat you don't want him searching through your private things and If the officer still proceeds to searchand finds illegal contraband, generally your attorney can argue that the contraband was discovered through an illegal search and that evidence could be thrown out of court, this is not always the case though.

You have the right to terminate an encounter with a police officer unless you are being detained under police custody or have been arrested. The general rule is that you don't have to answer any questions that the police ask you. This rule comes from the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which protects you against self-incrimination. If you cannot tell if you are allowed to leave, ask the officer, "Am I free to go?"

I hope that this article informs people of their basic rights as far being stopped and the protections that are afforded to us by the Constitution. The goal of this article was to generally inform about the laws of consent and search, this article in not way is meant to be specific, for a more specific break down, I would advise to look at your state statutes, becaue they sometimes provide for more protection than the constitution does.

Carrie Latabia Jones is from Bunn, NC. and a 2nd yr law student at NCCU, enrolled in a wrongful conviction course. The Professor required an article about something that affects our community. She is also enrolled in a Criminal procedure course, where they were talking about searches and consent and how most people consent to searches because they don't know their rights, hence her inspiration for my article.

Snip........ http://ednews.org/articles/20236/1/q...rch/Page1.html
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Now, some people believe that once one refuses consent, the officer performs the search anyway, because the refusal is a part of the grounds for "probable cause". But, the fact is the SCOTUS has ruled that a refusal is NOT probable cause.

Here's my question, how many of you would refuse a request to search, perhaps just on principle? Of course, if you would refuse based on something in your car, please feel free to tell us what it is.

I would refuse the request - I don't like anyone going through my personal stuff.

Also, it sure in interesting how, in TVLand, practically everyone allows searches and just will not shut up when being questioned by the police - especially in the Law and Order series - that is, by the way, a totally liberal platform - all versions.

[imagine2frolic]

Unless they have a warrant they will not search anything I own. With one exception, and that being the Coast Guard.

They can do what they wish with you. I was boarded once, and my boat searched. They drilled holes into collision departments for a look see with a camera. They were the rudest, and most incompetent set of A$$HOLES. I wasn't finished with them though. When I got into Miami I talked to their commander, and he chewed some butt.

Several months later when returning to Miami in the middle of the night they started to charge towards my boat with a floodlight glaring. I gave them the finger, and told them to Phuk off. They immediatley shut down the engines, and stayed well off while I continued to enter Miami with my finger still showing. I was raised to question authority.

['65 Cobra]

On November 10 while exiting my car in front of my house and a sheriff car rolled up right behind me and yelled at me to get back in my car,then they
proceeded to search me and ask if I had anything to hide and asked if they could search the car,I told them no then I was put in the back seat of the police car and asked why I had no plates on the car,after explaining it was brand new and plates didnt come yet one deputy started searching the car,I was so mad and felt violated that I filed a complaint with the watch commander,I just got a reply letter that they are conducting an investigation.
so lets see what happens.

[cobra de capell]

returning to Miami in the middle of the night

Now, that would ring some bells. Did you end up finding out what the Coast Guard can legally do relating to a search? Would 'a boat entering the Miami port in the middle of the night' not qualify as 'reasonable suspicion' - I can understand that it would not in your mind, but......

[imagine2frolic]

We sailed nonstop from northern Florida to Miami. It took us 36 hours to cover 360 miles. Sometimes it takes less, and sometimes more, so deciding what time to arrive is not for us to make. The wind gods do that decision.

Yes the CG can board you anytime, and anywhere in the world if you are a USA flagged boat. It was the manner in which they detained us, and they slammed into my boat a couple of times in flat seas. Then the treatment once they were aboard. Also $200 cash was missing from my navigation station.

I am all for them boarding me. I have no problem with that. It was their behaviour, and unprofessional approach to my vessel, and myself. They are doing their job by stopping me. I want them to stop boats, and search them....including me!

I was detained for 3 hours for what should have taken 15 minutes. They were busy playing good cop, and bad cop trying to get me to confess for a crime not commited. Finally I got tired of the crap, and went off on them. They drilled their 4 holes for the cameras, and then left. The good cop, and bad cop scene was a waste of their time, and mine. They should have just got down to business.

[EarlsflyinCobra]

Okay, speaking as a 30 year + LEO I can say that some of the newer, younger, more zealous police officers I have observed tend to go overboard on some of their searches and their criteria for the searches. Yes, probable cause is needed for a search and sometimes when there is borderline (grey area) PC the subject is asked if they will consent to a search and then their reaction is observed to either strengthen or weaken the PC. Unfortunately there are officers out there that will really STRETCH the issue, thus reflecting POORLY on all officers.
I do not know much about the Coast Guard so I will limit my response to this on them; I am suprised they went so far as drilling holes without a lot of PC or Suspicion of Illegal Activity.
As far as the deputies following you into your drive for no license plate, I see no problem with that. However, after they questioned you and you supplied proof that it was a new vehicle (hopefully you had that) I do find it disturbing that they placed you in the back of the cruiser and searched your vehicle. to me this was a little much.

Now with that being said let me give a little of my perspective.....it is always easier to Monday Morning Quarterback these situations.....in the field it is sometimes harder to do......I was recently involved in case where a male subject committed a fairly serious, yet non-violent crime, a few minutes later I spotted a vehicle fitting the description of the suspect vehicle....in it was a male subject wearing clothes that fit the suspect description exactly....when I stopped the vehicle the subject was very cooperative and turned out to not only NOT be the suspect but be the nephew of a high ranking officer within my department....luckily through my EXPERIENCE and training I refrained from yanking the subject out of the car and searching it before I questioned the subject. There was a fairly new officer that was coming to back me up whom I have observed jump the gun on searches before and luckily he did not make it to the stop or circumstances could have been different.

[Mastiff107]

After being a Federal Agent for 36+ years, here's my thoughts. I don't know of a cop in the world who wants to search anything. It's dangerous from a number of standpoints takes a lot of time away from donuts and coffee, and a mess. If I ask you if I can search it is because I have a very strong suspicion that there's something to find. If you say no, I get a dog and let him give me probable cause. Innocent people will always invoke their rights. If someone tells me they don't want to talk or won't let me search it tells me there's a 99% chance they aren't guilty of anything. A guilty person wants to convince you they are innocent so they always talk and let you search on the slim chance they can convince you they are innocent. They are afraid of looking more guilty by asking for a lawyer or refusing any request you make. I had 31 murder cases in my career and in every case they waived their right to counsel and later confessed. There are a number of court decisions that let the cop search anywhere in your car within your reach (front and rear seat area) for their protection. They can not search your trunk. A lot of times I would search anyting I wanted on the theory that if I don't find anything the person probably isn't going to complain to anyone other than me and if he does I don't care, and if I do find a gun or drugs I at least cost the guy some money and get it off the street. I may not be able to use it in court but at least I got the stuff off the streets.

[Joe Wicked]

I will say that my experiences with LE have been like Earl described. The more senior officers tend to not disrespect and push the issue too far too quick. I have only had real issues with 2 different cops. 1 was a Border Patrol stop in California. They selected me for random questioning and I pulled over. They asked to let a dog sniff around my car and I said ok. The officer came back and said that the dog had signaled for drugs and hidden people. He then asked to search my car. I said no. He went off on me how he could arrest me for refusing and then search it anyway. I told him to go ahead and arrest me then. If the dog had actually signaled drugs or hidden people, they would have all the PC they needed to go ahead and perform the arrest and search. Since he was asking me, I knew he was lying. While he was yelling a couple of other BP officers and a CHP officer came over to see what was going on. The CHP officer advised the BP to release me as they were currently violating my rights.

The second time was here in Texas. I had just bought my 03 Mustang and I got pulled over during lunch. The cop asked the usual "Do you know why I stopped you?" I said, "No, I do not Sir." He said that he had reason to believe that my car was not legal (it was completely stock, no mods at all yet). I asked him what the reasons were that he believed it to be illegal. He would not tell me. He called in the license plates, inspection sticker serial. He had me test the lights, blinkers, horn, and even pulled out a tint meter (35% tint was done by the dealership before I bought it, 30% was legal then 25% is legal now). After he was done he wrote me a ticket for my license plate light being too dim. Keep in mind it was noon on a sunny day. That ticket was quickly dismissed by the judge.

Both cases were young officers that thought that they could intimidate me and tried.

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by imagine2frolic

We sailed nonstop from northern Florida to Miami. It took us 36 hours to cover 360 miles. Sometimes it takes less, and sometimes more, so deciding what time to arrive is not for us to make. The wind gods do that decision.

Yes the CG can board you anytime, and anywhere in the world if you are a USA flagged boat. It was the manner in which they detained us, and they slammed into my boat a couple of times in flat seas. Then the treatment once they were aboard. Also $200 cash was missing from my navigation station.

I am all for them boarding me. I have no problem with that. It was their behaviour, and unprofessional approach to my vessel, and myself. They are doing their job by stopping me. I want them to stop boats, and search them....including me!

I was detained for 3 hours for what should have taken 15 minutes. They were busy playing good cop, and bad cop trying to get me to confess for a crime not commited. Finally I got tired of the crap, and went off on them. They drilled their 4 holes for the cameras, and then left. The good cop, and bad cop scene was a waste of their time, and mine. They should have just got down to business.

That all sounds reasonable to me.......did you have to respond to their questions, at all? I'm wondering if, yes: Search OK and reasonable/necessary - but, the grilling during or after the search seems unreasonable, unnecessary and unlawful (assuming one can refuse to respond). In other words, the Coast Guard doesn't have special laws that allow for the questioning of people without an attorney, right?

Now, responding to reasonable questions with no 'attitude' conveyed with them is a reasonable way to handle this, but it seems that when 'attitude' and 'deeds' destroy the reasonable environment, refusing to respond should be a lawful option.

[VRM]

When I get pulled over I turn on the interior light (if it is night) and put both hands on the wheel. This alone has gotten me out of just about every ticket. I treat the officer politely, but I would refuse any search request. I have nothing to hide, but I still think that the search and seizure aspect of the Constitution is important.

With regard to the Coasties - I think that they act as customs agents, and that is a whole different game. I had a discussion with some friends about that very topic recently, and I ended up finding out about a court case regarding a boat that was boarded and searched. It was something Italian or Spanish sounding IIRC. I'll see if I can find it again, or maybe one of my friends remembers it.

Steve

[cobra de capell]

It seems to me that even with nothing to hide, allowing some stranger, even a police officer, to search opens up the possibility, even if remote, that something can be planted. Yes, it's a little paranoid to think that way, but why even allow for that possibility? I'm thinking that most people are a little intimated by a police presence, so going along with 'reasonable' requests seems like the smart and natural thing to do. I say that allowing a search is a ticket to be treated badly – simply because if they have a lawful reason to search, they don't have to even ask.

Hands on the steering wheel is a good plan, along with the interior light on at night.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Since 1969, I have been stopped by the Louisiana State Police 3 or 4 times for speeding and was guilty as charged, no problem there....

A couple of years ago, while doing exactly 55 mph in a 55 mph zone on a flat, 3 mile straight (I saw the cop from afar), I was pulled over....Louisiana State Police again, obvouisly a new guy.....

Got out of the car and obayed his command to give him my license/registration and proof of insurance... He called in my license # and plate # and all came back "clean"... he never said a word to me and proceeded to look into the windows of my car (it's 8:00am), after he went completely around my car, I respectfully asked him why I had been pulled over, he said, I had an expired inspection sticker, he had not even checked the inspection sticker as of yet....I told him I thought the sticker was current as it was only about 3 or 4 months old (the're good for 1 year)....he then checked the sticker and told me I was right and it was valid.....

I asked him again why he pulled me over and he told me about the sticker again, at that point I was getting a little pi$$ed, but kept my cool and was very respectful to him... I pointed out that the stickers are color coded for easy identification and he should have seen that as I passed him on the highway.....he then asked for permission to search my car and I respectfully REFUSED.....then he got pi$$ed and told me by refusing,he could call in a dope dog which would take about 1 hour and then take another hour searching my car,I told him to make the call........

Then, he began looking in the grille of my car, sticking his hands in there and feeling around, I asked what he was looking for, he told me he was looking for the hidden Radar Detector!!!!!! Told him I don't have one, never owned one (the truth) and probably never will own one...He called me a liar and told me he would take my car apart piece by piece right there till he found it, I told him, go ahead.....
BTW: radar detectors are legal in Louisiana, which I also told him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, he's really pi$$ed......I then asked him one more time why the stop, he had NO answer....I told him he never did have "probable cause" to stop me in the first place and all I wanted to know was why the stop.....He then confessed to me he stopped me cause he had clocked me at 55 mph for about one mile and that was suspicous to him!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I told him that the reason I was driving 55 mph was that it was a 55mph zone!!!!!!!!!!!! He said NOBODY drives 55 in a 55 zone!!!!!!!! I said, I DO !!!!!!!!!!! and now I would like to get back to work, either let me go or arrest me right now......he told me I was free to go and just before I left, I asked for his name and badge # which he DID NOT want to give at first, but finally did and I filed a complaint with his watch commander that just happened to be my next door neighbor growing up.......A week later, I got a real nice letter from the trooper apologizing for what he did that day.........

All the other troopers were more than nice when they stopped me....

Moral of the story: sooner or later your going to run into an A$$HOLE, not matter what line of work your in............

David

[Cobrabill]

There is a running "theme" here.People use the term "senior" officers".I contend that it's not just a matter of having hash marks,but it is from hiring on back when the standards(academy)were MUCH higher and the academy actually produced a good"product".

[uncltodd]

My last "bust" was on a Sunday night about 8 PM.

I was in my DD, just a little '05 'Stang V6 vert, top up.

LE had no reason to pull me over, but I had L window down, inside lights on, no passengers, had my license and insurance stuff out before he hit the window.

Didn't have my hands on the roof, stupid me.

"Where are you going, sir?" he asked.

"I just took my granddaughter home from church, I'm going home."

"Do you mind if I search your car, sir?" he asked.

I boiled.

"No problem at all, officer, as long as your supervisor is here and there is video documentation of everything you do."

Many minutes later, he told me I was "Free to go on my way."

Tejas. Guilty until proved innocent.

Beware.

UT

[DAVID GAGNARD]

"No problem at all, officer, as long as your supervisor is here and there is video documentation of everything you do."

UT, mind if I use that one if I ever need it???????

Had not thought of that, but it does sound good to me..........

David

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by uncltodd

"No problem at all, officer, as long as your supervisor is here and there is video documentation of everything you do."

Many minutes later, he told me I was "Free to go on my way."

Tejas. Guilty until proved innocent.

Beware.

UT

That's a great plan. Securing a supervisor for backup is probably not doable, especially when there is clearly no reason to search anything. I'd love to hear how the communications with the supervisor, if he/she was contacted at all, went. The stop must have had something to do with profiling - in this case the car. Of course, profiling isn't done and is unlawful, but perhaps not if it's all about the car.

[imagine2frolic]

The video is funny, because when the Coasties started to stop me the second time we had a video ready. I told my wife to keep filming until they forcefully take it away.

The commander of the Coast Guard station was very aware of one of his men. He asked me several questions about him in patrticular. He also warned me to have my bells, whistles, life jackets, and everything else needed for a boat my size. He told me now that he had chewed some a$$ they would keep me in mind. That is why I gave them the finger, and told them to Phuk off on the second trip.

CDC, There was no responding at all. They boarded the boat, and put us in a corner with an armed guard while they searched. He kept us in the cockpit, and he blocked the companionway entrance to the boat. They were free to tear **** apart, and dump things. I was very pleasant for more than 2 hours.

They tried to get me to confess to possession of drugs, and threatened to cut up the boat. That's when I called them every PHUK YOU, and anything else I could think of. It all boiled down to they couldn't see in the collision compartments in both bows. After I chewed some butt they drilled thier little holes. Found nothing, and left. They could have told me that 2 hours earlier, and all of us on our way much quicker.

Next time if ever there is. I will demand to go into port, and have the commander come aboard while they search. They had follwed me on radar for over 50 miles while I was leaving the Bahamas. They even told me which cut I used to get through, and there are at least a dozen passages, so it was VERY lucky or they were watching me.

One last thing is that if you have seen any of my gallery you will see I am not the owner of alibaster skin, and freckles....LOLOLOLOL

[cobra de capell]

So, let me ask you this, as I hijack my own thread - do you ever worry about pirates along that route - from the Bahamas to Miami? I've never taken the trip, but it seems that this is one more thing that's been taken away to some degree by drug trafficing in that area. Everyone is now a suspect, but just a little profiling would result in common courtesy and asset protection - and that seems to be the only thing that you want. It's almost like they think that route is like going through the middle of Harlem or Watts, only with different players with everyone treated badly because of the few that are out to make a score.

I went to your gallery - my bet is that you are being profiled - you fit the profile in more than a few ways, but that's no excuse for screwing around with you are your stuff. Do the job and get off the boat.

BTW - nice boat, let's see - perfect for a trip to the Bahamas, pick up a one-time load, arriving back at night - one perfect score!

[trularin]

My last pull over I was doing ten over. Lights went on, I pulled over.

"What's your hurry?" pause "you saw me turn around."

I figured I try one I had read on a post.

"Well sir, my wife ran off with a policeman and well...I though you were bringing her back."

He cracked a grin and told me that was the first time some tried that line on him. He let me go with a warning.

[392cobra]

Originally Posted by uncltodd

My last "bust" was on a Sunday night about 8 PM.

Many minutes later, he told me I was "Free to go on my way."

Tejas. Guilty until proved innocent.

Beware.
UT

UT,
Were you heading north or south when he stopped you ??

If you were heading south,he might have been trying to protect our border from illegals or worse Okies.

He let you go when you told him were going home to OK.Sounds like our Border Patrols are working in Texas.