Club Cobra Gas - N Exhaust  

Go Back   Club Cobra > General Discussion > Lounge

MMG Superformance
Nevada Classics
MMG Superformance
Main Menu
Module Jump:
Nevada Classics
Nevada Classics
Keith Craft Racing
MMG Superformance
Advertise at CC
Banner Ad Rates
MMG Superformance
Keith Craft Racing
MMG Superformance
February 2025
S M T W T F S
            1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28  

Kirkham Motorsports

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2008, 05:42 PM
Don Don is offline
Senior Club Cobra Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Ellington, CT
Cobra Make, Engine: Classic Roadster 351W, T5, Red & White
Posts: 3,478
Not Ranked     
Default Pay-As-You-Drive (PAYD) insurance.

From the April 20 New York Times Sunday Magazine, note the comment in Italics:

April 20, 2008
FREAKONOMICS
Not-So-Free Ride

By STEPHEN J. DUBNER and STEVEN D. LEVITT
The trouble with negative externalities

Americans drive too much. This isn’t a political or moral argument; it’s an economic one. How so?

Because there are all sorts of costs associated with driving that the actual driver doesn’t pay. Such a condition is known to economists as a negative externality: the behavior of Person A (we’ll call him Arthur) damages the welfare of Person Z (Zelda), but Zelda has no control over Arthur’s actions. If Arthur feels like driving an extra 50 miles today, he doesn’t need to ask Zelda; he just hops in the car and goes. And because Arthur doesn’t pay the true costs of his driving, he drives too much.

What are the negative externalities of driving? To name just three: congestion, carbon emissions and traffic accidents. Every time Arthur gets in a car, it becomes more likely that Zelda — and millions of others — will suffer in each of those areas.

Which of these externalities is the most costly to U.S. society? According to current estimates, carbon emissions from driving impose a societal cost of about $20 billion a year. That sounds like an awful lot until you consider congestion: a Texas Transportation Institute study found that wasted fuel and lost productivity due to congestion cost us $78 billion a year. The damage to people and property from auto accidents, meanwhile, is by far the worst. In a 2006 paper, the economists Aaron Edlin and Pinar Karaca-Mandic argued that accidents impose a true unpaid cost of about $220 billion a year. (And that’s even though the accident rate has fallen significantly over the past 10 years, from 2.72 accidents per million miles driven to 1.98 per million; overall miles driven, however, keep rising.) So, with roughly three trillion miles driven each year producing more than $300 billion in externality costs, drivers should probably be taxed at least an extra 10 cents per mile if we want them to pay the full societal cost of their driving.

How can this be achieved? Higher tolls, especially variable tolls like congestion pricing, are one option. This seems to have worked well in London but was recently quashed in New York City, where the political hurdles proved too high.

A higher gas tax might also work. If a typical car gets 20 miles to the gallon, then the proper tax would be about $2 per gallon. But with the current high market price for gas and the political hysterics attached to it — well, good luck with that one.

This brings us to automobile insurance. While economists may argue that gas is poorly priced, that imbalance can’t compare with how poorly insurance is priced. Imagine that Arthur and Zelda live in the same city and occupy the same insurance risk pool but that Arthur drives 30,000 miles a year while Zelda drives just 3,000. Under the current system, Zelda probably pays the same amount for insurance as Arthur.

While some insurance companies do offer a small discount for driving less — usually based on self-reporting, which has an obvious shortcoming — U.S. auto insurance is generally an all-you-can-eat affair. Which means that the 27,000 more miles than Zelda that Arthur drives don’t cost him a penny, even as each mile produces externalities for everyone. It also means that low-mileage drivers like Zelda subsidize high-mileage drivers like Arthur.

Aaron Edlin first noticed this imbalance more than 15 years ago. “I was a graduate student at Stanford,” he says, “and I drove maybe 2,000 miles a year. But I paid roughly the same $1,000 as if I’d driven 10 times as much, which was a huge portion of my budget.” A few years later, Edlin was serving on the President’s Council of Economic Advisers when he floated an idea that economists had long found attractive: pay-as-you-drive (PAYD) insurance. It seemed like an obvious solution. Since no one expects to pay the same price for, say, a 60-minute massage as they pay for a 15-minute massage, why should people pay the same for insurance no matter how many miles they drove?

“The objection within the White House,” Edlin recalls, “was there wasn’t good academic research on the subject.”

Edlin and a few others, including Jason Bordoff and Pascal Noel at the Brookings Institution, have since done such research. It makes a compelling case that PAYD insurance would work well, reducing the carbon emissions, congestion and accident risk created by too much driving while leading drivers to pay the true cost of their mileage. Bordoff and Noel put the total social benefit at $52 billion a year.

The better news is that PAYD insurance is no longer just an academic exercise. G.M.A.C. has begun using OnStar technology to offer mileage discounts, and next month Progressive will roll out a comprehensive PAYD plan called MyRate. Progressive, the huge Ohio-based insurer that has long prided itself as an innovator, will first offer the plan in six states, having run a similar pilot in three other states. Drivers who sign up for MyRate will install a small wireless device in their cars that transmits to Progressive not just how many miles they drive but also when those miles are driven and, to some extent, how they are driven: the device measures the car’s speed every second, from which Progressive can derive acceleration and braking behavior. Which means that Progressive will not only be able to charge drivers for the actual miles they consume but will also better assess the true risk of each driver.

If PAYD is such a great idea, why has it taken so long? There are at least three reasons: the tracking technology has only recently become affordable; insurers were anxious about drivers’ privacy concerns; and there was a substantial risk for whichever company was first to offer PAYD on a large scale.

Participation in the MyRate program is voluntary, and that’s where the economics get interesting. As with most incentive changes, there will be winners and losers. The clearest winners are people like Zelda, who can drive the same distance they used to drive and pay less. What’s less obvious is whether Progressive will be a winner; there are, in fact, a couple of situations in which Progressive could lose out. If all MyRate accomplishes is to give Progressive’s low-mileage customers the rate cut they deserve, then Progressive is doing little more than lowering its own revenues. It could, of course, try to compensate by raising rates on all its high-mileage Arthurs, but then there’s nothing to stop Arthur from buying his insurance elsewhere. (Of course, losing its riskiest customers to other companies might also prove profitable for Progressive.)

If, however, Progressive can corner the Zelda market by stealing millions of Zeldas from other insurers, then it could make a killing by being the first to sell accurately priced insurance for low-mileage drivers. The bigger goal for society — and the wild card in this or any incentive shift — is to create real behavior change. And that is always easier said than done. But if Progressive’s PAYD insurance can induce some of its high-mileage customers to drive less and especially to drive more safely, resulting in smaller claims payouts for Progressive and fewer negative externalities for everyone, then it could truly be a win-win-win situation.

Except, perhaps, for Progressive’s rivals.
__________________
2014 Porsche Cayman S, 2014 M-B CLA 45 AMG,
Unkown:"Their sweet lines all but take my breath away, and I desire them as much for their beauty as for their use "
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2008, 07:02 PM
wtm442's Avatar
Beam Me Up Scottie
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Squantum (part of Quincy), MA
Cobra Make, Engine: SPF1049 Titanium w/black stripes, 351W with Trick Flow Heads, Tremec 3550
Posts: 7,592
Send a message via MSN to wtm442
Not Ranked     
Default

Pure Socialism at its worst.

There already are a couple of big incentives to drive less:

~ Low mileage discount (the article almost dismisses this as insignificant - I get about 20% discount)

~ Not paying for gas
__________________
Warren
'Liberals are maggots upon the life of this planet and need to get off at the next rotation.' (Jamo 2008)
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2008, 07:31 PM
Joe Wicked's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lavon, TX
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 3,008
Send a message via Yahoo to Joe Wicked
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wtm442 View Post
Pure Socialism at its worst.

There already are a couple of big incentives to drive less:

~ Low mileage discount (the article almost dismisses this as insignificant - I get about 20% discount)

~ Not paying for gas
yep, I get a 20% as well. The wife and I work in the same building and average less than 7500 miles/year on either vehicle. The Supercrew has most of it's mileage from road trips with luggage that is not feasible to take the Mustang.
__________________
Why do they call it "Common Sense" when it is so rare?
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2008, 08:59 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Saint Charles, IL
Cobra Make, Engine: FFR 5013 - Warmed up & enlarged 302, carb- Painted RED
Posts: 518
Not Ranked     
Default

Unless & until some evidence that insurance risk is predominately related to miles driven. PAYD is only social engineering.
__________________
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 02:38 AM
Ron61's Avatar
Senior Club Cobra Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Shasta Lake, CA
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 26,599
Not Ranked     
Post

And just how is the model of present day stupidity to be implemented? On a daily, weekly, monthly basis. I drive maybe 150 miles a month and I don't see anything at all that would benefit me. And of course the Govt. would need to step in with a bunch of asinine regulations an no one would wind up paying less. Leave some things alone. There is a lot more important things that should be addressed than whether one person pays more for insurance than another. And I suppose the illegal aliens would have to be given insurance for free.

Ron
__________________
Ron 61
Ronnie Widener


View my Miscellaneous Gallery
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 05:38 AM
DAVID GAGNARD's Avatar
Senior Club Cobra Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: MARKSVILLE,LA.,,
Posts: 3,235
Not Ranked     
Default

Insurance companies use a lot of figures in determining rates....mileage driven is one of them...

I drive about 45,000 miles a year.....
My wife drives about 5,000 miles a year.....

The chances of me having an accident are a lot greater than my wife, simply becuase of the miles and time spent on the road, that is a fact of life and factored into your premium.....

I get the low mileage discount on my wife's car and my personal truck as both are driven less than 7,500 miles a year, I don't get it on my company car!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

David
__________________
DAVID GAGNARD
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 07:01 AM
Don Don is offline
Senior Club Cobra Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Ellington, CT
Cobra Make, Engine: Classic Roadster 351W, T5, Red & White
Posts: 3,478
Not Ranked     
Default

" the device measures the car’s speed every second, from which Progressive can derive acceleration and braking behavior. Which means that Progressive will not only be able to charge drivers for the actual miles they consume but will also better assess the true risk of each driver. "

It will be interesting how Progressive retains and shares the data with law enforcement and lawyers, subject to a court order ?
__________________
2014 Porsche Cayman S, 2014 M-B CLA 45 AMG,
Unkown:"Their sweet lines all but take my breath away, and I desire them as much for their beauty as for their use "
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 11:22 AM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Saint Charles, IL
Cobra Make, Engine: FFR 5013 - Warmed up & enlarged 302, carb- Painted RED
Posts: 518
Not Ranked     
Default

Point being that mileage driven is most likely not the predominate risk factor. It certainly increases the risk because it increases the exposure of the high mileage driver to other vehicles. It does not take into account the most predominate risk factors - driver impairment, driver skill, roads or areas traveled, vehicle equipment, driver experience, & probably others. I have driven more than 750,000 miles without an accident of any kind; my brother-in law drives about 7500 per year and averages one per two or three years.
If mileage based rating is more accurate, the experiment will succeed, rates will lower for those drivers, more companies will offer it, & the inept low mileage drivers will gravitate to those insurers & the rates will rise. The insurance market, though regulated still responds to the actualities of the driving world, & the "magic" of PAYD will ultimately have little or no effect on the rates in general but will provide the social engineering that is likely the true rationale here. Note the term regarding the benefits of "lower carbon emissions" and curtailing "too much driving"

Can I get in line for permission to drive??
__________________
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
The representations expressed are the representations and opinions of the clubcobra.com forum members and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and viewpoints of the site owners, moderators, Shelby American, any other replica manufacturer, Ford Motor Company. This website has been planned and developed by clubcobra.com and its forum members and should not be construed as being endorsed by Ford Motor Company, or Shelby American or any other manufacturer unless expressly noted by that entity. "Cobra" and the Cobra logo are registered trademarks for Ford Motor Co., Inc. clubcobra.com forum members agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyrighted material is owned by you. Although we do not and cannot review the messages posted and are not responsible for the content of any of these messages, we reserve the right to delete any message for any reason whatsoever. You remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, and you agree to indemnify and hold us harmless with respect to any claim based upon transmission of your message(s). Thank you for visiting clubcobra.com. For full policy documentation refer to the following link: CC Policy
Links monetized by VigLink