G. M. Hits 53 Year Low

[Ron61]

Not good news at all for any of the auto makers.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080626/bs_nm/autos_dc_4

Ron

[FWB]

wow ron, last year was fords reported loss now GM, two local ford dealers here
did not renew their francises with ford and are just selling honda, mitsub.
and some other foreign brand......scary

[Ron61]

Yes, it is and from the way that article reads it is likely to get much worse. The downgrading to junk really hurts. They need to take some of those big SUVs and Pickups they have stock piled and can't sell and melt them down and make some good cars out of them. I saw one dealer here is saying he won't take them for trade in any more as they can't get rid of them. And the drop in traffic on the freeway is unbelievable.

Ron

[4RE KLR]

I heard on the news they were thinking of removing GM from the Dow.

Hmm another one to watch. Maybe a "buy" in early 09. but will have to wait and see what the 09 models bring to the table. Looks like it is "Do or Die" time for Gm.

You would think they would be smart enought to build what people are buying. Look at what Toyota has brought to the table in recent years. I am not saying it is a better company (not American) but we could learn from what they are doing.

[Alex Donghi]

Have any of yiou tried that tahoe that is partly electric? Sean Hanity says its great

[Stentor]

Originally Posted by Alex Donghi

Have any of yiou tried that tahoe that is partly electric? Sean Hanity says its great

I saw one on a dealer lot a few weeks ago (a GMC Yukon--similar to Tahoe). They are supposed to get 21 mpg in the city and 20 mpg on the highway (pretty impressive for a full-size SUV).

I was surprised that the hybrid Yukon was still sitting on the lot (as I had heard that people were scooping them up, and they were hard to get).

The only downside I could see with it was that they put some cheesy graphics on it (highlighting that it is a hybrid) and some ugly looking rims.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by 4RE KLR

...

You would think they would be smart enought to build what people are buying. Look at what Toyota has brought to the table in recent years. I am not saying it is a better company (not American) but we could learn from what they are doing.

The big 3 were building big suvs and pickups because that is exactly what the american public was buying. They have been developing hybrids and fuel cells just like Toyota and Honda. And Toyota added a full-size pickup truck in recent years. Honda also added a pickup truck and a big SUV in the last couple of years too. Even the Japanese were going for the big heavy, big profit SUVs.

The price of gas goes up a bunch quickly and guess what, the american public is not in love with SUVs anymore.

If you think about it, the situation is similar to 1973. American cars were big. The gas crunch happens and all of a sudden the little Japanese cars are popular. But you know what. The Japanese cars have grown every model cycle since then, because they followed the American market. Do you remember how small the honda civic was back in the 70's. I think it was smaller than a Mini. Maybe the american public will fall in love with the new $3000 dollar car made in India this time.

[1ntCobra]

I think the Honda Civic has grown from this to American size over the years:



I think back in the 70's gas crunch, some people dumped their 500 c.i. Caddy's for these. Kind of like people dumping their big SUVs now.

Hmm, the big 3 managed to survive back then.

[HI Cobra]

Somehow I just don't see the Ta Ta's (India) making it here.

[RalphSchmalph]

Originally Posted by Ron61

Yes, it is and from the way that article reads it is likely to get much worse. The downgrading to junk really hurts. They need to take some of those big SUVs and Pickups they have stock piled and can't sell and melt them down and make some good cars out of them. I saw one dealer here is saying he won't take them for trade in any more as they can't get rid of them. And the drop in traffic on the freeway is unbelievable.

Ron

There are guys who are buying these SUVs/hummers/trucks for short money and exporting them for re-sale to countries that subsidize gas prices for their suffering masses (like Venezuela). They're making a bundle!!

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by HI Cobra

Somehow I just don't see the Ta Ta's (India) making it here.

I was just kidding when I said that. But I don't see why anyone would like the Smart for 2 either, I just saw what Consumer Reports said about it. I guess if you have trouble finding a parking space it might help.

On the other hand look at the picture of the 1977 Civic I just posted. Who would have thought Americans would have bought a car like that if it were not for the gas crisis in the 70's.

[arrowdriver]

I recall when the Honda Civic first came out. I was living in Montreal and by the middle of the first winter they were so rusted out you could see right through the side to the rear suspension. I don't recall any of them lasting more than one year. One girl I knew didn't drive her's in the winter and got through two years then the engine failed with 25,000 miles on it, off warratee of course as they only had a 12 month warrantee. The car had been $2200 new and the dealer wanted $2400 to replace the engine. The car went for parts. However the Civic was a lot better than Honda's first attempt in North America which was the S-600. They lasted about 1000 miles and were totally orphaned by Honda. Hard to believe that anyone forgave them for their early garbage. Even today I find that Toyotas etc are way overrated, particularly in the area of comfort. This May I rented a Toyota in Ireland that had 6 km on it. With 750 km it quit at a gas station and Toyota told me they would get someone out in a day or so to look at it. Fortunately I was able to get a service shop nearby to sort out the electical problem as I didn't have two days to wait for Toyota, but this was at my cost.

I'll drive a Ford or GM any day over the Asian cars.

[GlynMeek]

Sh1t this is getting bad. My 'sensible daily driver' is a Porsche Turbo and I actually spent a few hours this afternoon looking at Minis, and SERIOUSLY considering a trade! The dealer told me he wouldn't be able to give me as much as I deserved as a trade in...dear god, $125,000 automobiles are NOT what they used to be...

Glyn

[Ron61]

Though there will be some settling after this crisis is over, I do not think that it can be compared in any way with the 70s gas crunch. As soon as the oil exporters got what they wanted things went back to kind of normal. This time I don't think they will because of many factors, not the least being countries like China, Japan, and others that are buying more and more oil. And they can afford to pay more for it than we can. The past is just that, the past and is not a guide to lean on in this situation. And this harping about this car gets 32 MPG is a joke. I had a 58 Ford way back that had the police 332 in it and if I drove it right it would average 25 MPG on the freeway. Are you telling me that it has taken 40 years of technology and these cracker box cars to get 30+ MPG. A friend of mine has an Oldsmobile that is several years old now and it still gets 32 on the freeway. The old way of things going back to what they were is over.

Edit: Ralph, if a person has the money to do that, then they probably can make a fortune. But up here there are very few with the kind of money that it would take to pull that off.

Ron

[SPF2245]

If GM is going to pull out of this, they need to start by killing some of the fat. First, dump Buick...other then a few "blue-hairs" buying them, they are not worth the cost to GMs bottom line in keeping up and running. Get some more Hybrids on the lot (and not just the 50K Tahoe...I just about Sh!t myself when I looked at one and saw the sticker).

Chevrolet offers six cars (if you count the poor selling HHR as a car), dump two models and focus on producing four decent cars). Not sure the number of the Avalance being sold, but somehow I doubt it's worth keeping those around much longer either. Tahoe and Suburbans are great trucks, but they are as popular right now as a '69 Chevelle 396 was in 1975.

I believe there was rummors the Hummer brand was going to get sold...which is no loss. My local Hummer dealer is not selling CRAP, they have H2s on the lot which have been sitting unsold for over 8 months!!! If they can't sell it, close shop and move on.

Cadillac...love the CTS and CTS-V, but cars like the ESV, EXT and XLR roadster can go bye-bye with no loss of market share. I'm not sure about the DTS regarding sales, but other then maybe selling a few to the Buick owners now looking for something to cruise in on the way to Bingo...would losing it be a real loss?!

Really, the bottom line is all the brands (Pontiac, Saturn, Caddy, ect) need to trim down their lines and kill the duplicate models which have yet to compete with the likes of Toyota and Honda.

Just my .02.

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by arrowdriver

I recall when the Honda Civic first came out. I was living in Montreal and by the middle of the first winter they were so rusted out you could see right through the side to the rear suspension. I don't recall any of them lasting more than one year. One girl I knew didn't drive her's in the winter and got through two years then the engine failed with 25,000 miles on it, off warratee of course as they only had a 12 month warrantee. The car had been $2200 new and the dealer wanted $2400 to replace the engine. The car went for parts. However the Civic was a lot better than Honda's first attempt in North America which was the S-600. They lasted about 1000 miles and were totally orphaned by Honda. Hard to believe that anyone forgave them for their early garbage. Even today I find that Toyotas etc are way overrated, particularly in the area of comfort. This May I rented a Toyota in Ireland that had 6 km on it. With 750 km it quit at a gas station and Toyota told me they would get someone out in a day or so to look at it. Fortunately I was able to get a service shop nearby to sort out the electical problem as I didn't have two days to wait for Toyota, but this was at my cost.

I'll drive a Ford or GM any day over the Asian cars.

You have just illustrated the difference between Detroit and the imports.Every company comes up with a disaster now & then.Detroit hangs on to the disaster attempting to "tweak" the problems out of it but never accomplishing it.Where as Japan fixes the problem and or s.hit-cans the entire model line to avoid any future problems or even perceptions.

Hence the reason Detroit is phucked.

[4RE KLR]

GM is far to slow and fat to respond quick enough for the market demand and will pay heavily for it.

The import companies are responding with what America is wanting and needing, that is why Toyota has come so far so fast.

Too bad GM is too worried about the fat CEO's salaries instead of concentrating on the current demand. You would think the board of big companies could see through the waste that is being paid to these worthless overpaid CEO's right now.

I do not wish anything bad for GM. It is (was) a great American company. They just need to get their heads out of the sand and go to work.

Wait and see.

[Ron61]

Steve,

The report on Ford is due out later next week I believe and also I saw that Chrysler is denying they are going to file for bankruptcy. I think Ford will be worse than G.M., but they do have one thing that may help. That billionaire who owns quite a bit of their stock has said he will put up a large amount of money to try to help them through this until they can get things turned around. At least they did delay the making of any more of those huge new pickups, at least for now. Even Toyota is taking some losses in some areas.

Ron

[4RE KLR]

Yep, I saw that but they (Toyota) are selling more small cars than any of the Big three, I believe you are right about Chrysler and the BK, but time will tell.

Toyota also has the Lexus line which is doing well, even today. GM has Buick, Give me a break who is living in the 60's here. Buick was dead thirty years ago.

I also think Ford will survive due to many things, the Billionaire investor for one, but even he has only so much capital to invest. They are moving ahead rapidly on their hybrid cars.

GM is just responding too slow, which is usual for this company as you know.

It will be a long ride for GM no matter what they do.

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by 4RE KLR

GM is far to slow and fat to respond quick enough for the market demand and will pay heavily for it.
The import companies are responding with what America is wanting and needing, that is why Toyota has come so far so fast.

Bingo.And taking it one step further,GM(Detroit in general)builds cars and then says to the public-BUY IT.

Where as the Japanese companies do their research,find out what we want and then build it for us.

The whole 14th floor should be nuked.