Hooray for John Voight.....

[Roscoe]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/jul/28/voight/

VOIGHT: My concerns for America
Obama sowing socialist seeds in young people

Monday, July 28, 2008

OP-ED

We, as parents, are well aware of the importance of our teachers who teach and program our children. We also know how important it is for our children to play with good-thinking children growing up.

Sen. Barack Obama has grown up with the teaching of very angry, militant white and black people: the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Louis Farrakhan, William Ayers and Rev. Michael Pfleger. We cannot say we are not affected by teachers who are militant and angry. We know too well that we become like them, and Mr. Obama will run this country in their mindset.

The Democratic Party, in its quest for power, has managed a propaganda campaign with subliminal messages, creating a God-like figure in a man who falls short in every way. It seems to me that if Mr. Obama wins the presidential election, then Messrs. Farrakhan, Wright, Ayers and Pfleger will gain power for their need to demoralize this country and help create a socialist America.

The Democrats have targeted young people, knowing how easy it is to bring forth whatever is needed to program their minds. I know this process well. I was caught up in the hysteria during the Vietnam era, which was brought about through Marxist propaganda underlying the so-called peace movement. The radicals of that era were successful in giving the communists power to bring forth the killing fields and slaughter 2.5 million people in Cambodia and South Vietnam. Did they stop the war, or did they bring the war to those innocent people? In the end, they turned their backs on all the horror and suffering they helped create and walked away.

Those same leaders who were in the streets in the '60s are very powerful today in their work to bring down the Iraq war and to attack our president, and they have found their way into our schools. William Ayers is a good example of that.

Thank God, today, we have a strong generation of young soldiers who know exactly who they are and what they must do to protect our freedom and our democracy. And we have the leadership of Gen. David Petraeus, who has brought hope and stability to Iraq and prevented the terrorists from establishing a base in that country. Our soldiers are lifting us to an example of patriotism at a time when we've almost forgotten who we are and what is at stake.

If Mr. Obama had his way, he would have pulled our troops from Iraq years ago and initiated an unprecedented bloodbath, turning over that country to the barbarianism of our enemies. With what he has openly stated about his plans for our military, and his lack of understanding about the true nature of our enemies, there's not a cell in my body that can accept the idea that Mr. Obama can keep us safe from the terrorists around the world, and from Iran, which is making great strides toward getting the atomic bomb. And while a misleading portrait of Mr. Obama is being perpetrated by a media controlled by the Democrats, the Obama camp has sent out people to attack the greatness of Sen. John McCain, whose suffering and courage in a Hanoi prison camp is an American legend.

Gen. Wesley Clark, who himself has shame upon him, having been relieved of his command, has done their bidding and become a lying fool in his need to demean a fellow soldier and a true hero.

This is a perilous time, and more than ever, the world needs a united and strong America. If, God forbid, we live to see Mr. Obama president, we will live through a socialist era that America has not seen before, and our country will be weakened in every way.

Jon Voight is an Academy Award-winning actor who is well-known for his humanitarian work.

[4RE KLR]

I did see that BO was being compared to God himself this weekend.

What are these misguided people thinking?

[Excaliber]

Voight's analysis of the Vietnam killing fields, Veitnam slaughter and his definition of the peace movement of that time is remarkably stupid. Clearly the guy is out of touch with reality. Therefore, I would have to conclude his analysis of 'Oh No' is equally off mark.

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Voight's analysis of the Vietnam killing fields, Veitnam slaughter and his definition of the peace movement of that time is remarkably stupid. Clearly the guy is out of touch with reality. Therefore, I would have to conclude his analysis of 'Oh No' is equally off mark.

But, no one cares what you conclude.

[Roscoe]

Voight's analysis of the Cambodian killing fields, Vietnam war and Soviet/NV influence in the peace movement is right on the money. Even the great lefty Joan Baez expressed her guilt over Pol Pot killing 25% of his population while the left stood by and watched; making excuses and blaming others.

NV generals have stated, as recent as a few years ago, their influence/involvement in the peace movement.

And let's not forget the Congress who threw the South Vietnamese under the bus by cutting off our support and creating the vacuum necessary for the North to overrun the South causing thousands of deaths.

Do your research. I'm not going to do it for you.

Roscoe

[427 S/O]

Very pleased John V. is on the right side, the majority of U.S.citizens trust McCain, as for 'O'NO!, he get's about 35% of the brain dead dems.

[427sharpe]

So rare in Hollywood....a thinker with facts rather than Kaballah visions...

[Cobrabill]

Wow,a Hollywood knude-nick that nailed it right on the head.Rosie O'donnell would probably fly off the handle at his comments,but she can't muster enough energy to move that a$$ of hers.

[Excaliber]

Facts? Voights opinion piece is long on speculation and woefully short on 'facts', uh, thats why it's an 'opinion' piece. I have done the research, Roscoe, I come to different conclusions than Voights view of a Vietnam slaughter and a different view on the current Iraq war as well.

My response has nothing to do with support of either candidate, by the way, just responding to Voights rant about Vietnam.

[427 S/O]

Ernie, your research?????????, my research, below.......


by Michael Dickey

1 million South Vietnamese residents took flight in make shift rafts into the South China Sea fearing the communist invaders. Most of them drowned. An additional 1 million South Vietnamese residents were executed. I would like to see these 1.6 million names added to the Vietnam memorial. Neighboring Cambodia fared much worse.

The Khmer rouge under the loose rule of Pol Pot took power with support from the North Vietnamese armies and supplies from the Soviet Union, easily defeating the pro western Lon Nol, who now had no support from the US thanks to the US congress decision to end aide in a bill submitted by and approved by the democraticly controlled congress, Sen. Chris Dodd (D-Conn) said we should 'not intervene'. Cambodians "need peace, not guns" was the pacifist rallying cry. Unfortunately what they actually needed was guns.

[Excaliber]

Vietnam is a complex subject and there are no easy answers. The 'country' (USA) had spoken, it was time to end the war. You can blame the 'end' on who ever or what ever group suits your political position, but fact is, we had to end it, it was the fullness of time. And the end result was certainly catastrophic and tragic on many levels. There are a LOT of reasons, groups and people that we can place the blame on. For getting us IN as well as getting us OUT. It was and remains a 'mess', plenty of blame and shame to spread around, from POTUS down to Haight Ashbury and in between. I think it's a cheap shot blaming a 'peace movement' for the countrys failure in Vietnam, it's substantially more complex than that.

[Roscoe]

In a recent article in the Washington Times, Arnaud de Borchgrave noted that during the Vietnam War, General Giap relied on the American peace movement to weaken American resolve. That had the effect of turning an American military victory into a political defeat. Former North Vietnamese General Staff officer Bui Tin once said that the peace movement was "essential to our strategy." In America, the open support of Hanoi by Jane Fonda, former Attorney General Ramsey Clark (now head of International ANSWER, which coordinates the largest protests) and others "gave us confidence that we should hold on in the face of battlefield reverses," Bui Tin said. "Through dissent and protest," the US "lost the ability to mobilize a will to win."
******
As a result of the peace movement hundreds, if not thousands, of US personnel lost their lives. Thanks Jane and John (Kerry that is)

Roscoe
US Marines 1964-1970

[clayfoushee]

Roscoe, this whole thread illustrates a classic example of a complete failure in logic and revisionist hindsight. Let us ASSume that the above post is true, and I have no doubts that the NVA Generals certainly felt that way at the time and are reporting accurately. Now let us also ASSume that there was never any peace/anti-involvement in Vietnam movement (whatever you want to call it).

Now please tell me how you know in the absence of the above movement that "hundreds, if not thousands, of US personnel" would have lost their lives anyway. In fact, how do you know that even more would have lost their lives because of an even longer involvement?

You don't. Thus, it is a dumb ass argument.

[Roscoe]

I'm not going to play history professor here. I am sure that no matter what proof or information I provide will change your, or anyones mind. So I only have to say that people with open minds will research, read and study history from an unbiased prospective.

I could certainly answer your argument with no problem but I've been there before, done that, and it's like beating my head against the wall.

Example:

A woman goes to Israel to observe the habits of people who come to the
Wailing Wall. She notices one old man who comes every day at sunrise and
sunset and prays devoutly. After a month she asks him what he's praying for.

"In the morning," he says, "I pray for the children, that they might not be
hungry, and grow up with love in their families."
"And at night?" she asks.
"At night," he says, "I pray for the fate of nations, that there might be
peace and understanding throughout the world."
"How long have you been doing this?" "Fifty years," the old man says.
"Wow," she says, "what's it like to spend so much time and energy on such a
selfless cause?" "What's it like?"
he says. "It's like talking to a foocking wall."

Cordially,
Roscoe

[wtm442]

Just my 2 cents, but I could not care less what any "actor" thinks about politics. They all live in a fantasy world, so their opinions are slanted ... and 95% of the time, they are extremely liberal (Streisand, Rosie O, Sean Penn, etc). This time, its just an Op-Ed from a conservative Republican actor.

It's really sad that some of the voting public will make a political decision based upon the views of an actor. Its bad enough that way too many people do not even vote.

[bomelia]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Facts? Voights opinion piece is long on speculation and woefully short on 'facts', uh, thats why it's an 'opinion' piece. I have done the research, Roscoe, I come to different conclusions than Voights view of a Vietnam slaughter and a different view on the current Iraq war as well.

My response has nothing to do with support of either candidate, by the way, just responding to Voights rant about Vietnam.

Okey dokey... present you evidence which is the result of your research. If you do not present it, then your opinion is just that, an opinion. BTW, your understanding of the "killing fields" era is remarkably flawed.

Mike

PS: One more thing I love Jon Voight for (besides all of his excellent movies...), he brought into this world the most lovely and beautiful (though somewhat flawed in thinking) Angelina Jolie!

[Excaliber]

It's just a ridiculous argument to say the 'peace movement' resulted in the 'killing fields'. For instance, if we stay in Iraq long enough with no specific results, if enough Americans have died, if the situation proves to be untenable we WILL see a 'peace movement' again. When Americans have 'had enough' they will stand up and be counted. If there is a 'killing field' that results from the country saying, "Get the hell out of Iraq, NOW", then you can point your finger at all those liberals and peace mongers and blame them for the countrys failure. You would be wrong, but you could say that!

It was the COUNTRY that stood up and said 'Get the hell out of Vietnam, we've had enough.' My Dad was a WWII veteran. He was mad as hell at all those 'peace mongers', but even he eventually realized, the country had no choice. We had to leave. The 'will' to carry on the war from it's very BEGINNING was never there from the Government. This wasn't the result of the 'people' saying 'Get out', this was the result of flawed leadership from the beginning to the end. The end result, though tragic, would have taken place regardless of whether we stayed or did not stay. Official "policy" constantly tied the militarys hands, it was, at best, a half assed attempt to fight a war from day one.

...I can't believe I'm being sucked into a Vietnam war debate. The personal cost to myself and family has been horrendous and continues to this day. It was a bad time for the country, a lot of mistakes were made, continuing that conflict was not an option, it had to end.

I don't really want to draw a comparison between Iraq and Vietnam, the goals and needs are substantially different in the current conflict.

[427sharpe]

It's amazing for me to see all of the radical left from back in the day try to retroactively 'readjust' their positions on that war and America. They continually attempt to rewrite the history and culpability from which they cannot escape. Hanoi Jane comes to mind....as does Mr. Kerry. It must be very hard living with the facts of the slaughter that confirmed many points of the domino theory they so self-righteously ridiculed. They tried to change the world...and succeeded. They raised a generation of citizens that despise their country, ridicule their defenders and reject the most basic of American tenets; hard work, self reliance and belief in self. Now its 'What can the government do for me, because I'm entitled...' Let's call them Generation O.

[Excaliber]

Every group or movement have radicals in them, people out of step with the general consensus of the movement at large. Hanoi Jane is an example, she didn't speak for the general consensus of the nation, she was a radical.

The current dialog to exit Iraq could and has been construed as 'helping the enemy' and weakening our military. But the discussion must be held, it should not be silenced simply because were afraid it may have some adverse impact. It is right to ask the questions, now and then.

[cobra de capell]