How Joe The Plumber makes $250,000+

[MChat]

Originally Posted by VRM

Just curious - which planks of the Libertarian platform do you disagree with? I already have a guess, but I would rather ask than assume.

Steve

The biggest one I can think of off the top of my head is their policy toward open borders. That scenario would only work where the economies of your neighbors are similiar to your own (for instance it would work between Canada and the U.S. but not between the U.S. and Mexico).

This reminds me of another thread in another forum. I think I might import the idea over here.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by MChat

The biggest one I can think of off the top of my head is their policy toward open borders. That scenario would only work where the economies of your neighbors are similiar to your own (for instance it would work between Canada and the U.S. but not between the U.S. and Mexico).

This reminds me of another thread in another forum. I think I might import the idea over here.

Bloody good! I just saw that thread - I'll give that one some thought and post there later.

There is some element of naivete in the Libertarian party, but I agree with a lot more of their planks than either the DNC or the GOP.

Steve

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by VRM

CdC,
You are willing to settle for less than mediocrity (hell, you even ADVOCATE IT!!); I am not. You and others like you have dug a hole and you are tying to pull the rest of the country in while those in the DNC try to pull the country into a different hole. Feel free to stay in there yourself (I DO favour of individual rights, after all), but leave me out of it. I am not interested in putting myself into any hole that you already seem to have stuck your head into.

Steve

It's politics, steve - and even if it's 'mediocrity' that you see in McCain - Obama represents socialism, possibly communism - at least I'm not settling for nothing as your vote will result in for you. It's simply beyond belief that people like you even exist, people that believe that the best choice among those that have any chance of winning is not the way to go.......

[imagine2frolic]

I am thinking after this election. No matter what the outcome. A third party will emerge, and be strong. Things will change then.....if we can hang on another 4 years.....lololololol

[cobra bill]

I viable third party choice would be nice, and you are right it may stand a better chance in the next election, till then we are stuck voting for who we believe to be the least of two evils!

[NeoConMan]

Originally Posted by VRM

I'm voting for Ron Paul
Yeah, he is a little shrill, and does not always present well, but so far he is the only guy I have even a shred of respect for.
And his record bears out his desire for small government and small taxes.

Ron Paul is nuttier than a sh!t house rat.
I have to ask the Paul supporters this;
How long have you been following him?

I was well aware of his "quirks" when he first took office in the eighties.
I owned property and a home in Brazoria County Texas for 15 years.

He can say all the right things to get people to follow him, honestly I agree with him on principle on 90% of his platform.
But the two Achilles Tendons are legalizing dope and opening the borders.

Screw that, I'll keep voting Republican and melting the phones in McCain's offices like I've done for 8 years. I've never voted for that axxhole, never liked him, and come November I'll be like a kid eating spinach when I cat my ballot for him.

Voting for your candidate is NOT the end, it's the beginning.
Get on the phones, get in touch with their staffers, and TELL THEM when they piss you off.




By the way, I thought ex-Republican Bob Barr was the Libertarian candidate...

[cobra de capell]

In both 1933 and 1965, liberal majorities imposed vast expansions of government that have never been repealed, and the current financial panic may give today's left another pretext to return to those heydays of welfare-state liberalism. Americans voting for "change" should know they may get far more than they ever imagined. If the media gets its way next month, moonbattery may corrode America past the point of no return.

[cobra de capell]

The Wall Street Journal warns that if Dems get BHO in the White House and a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, we will enter "a period of unchecked left-wing ascendancy."

Among the consequences:

Socialized medicine. This gargantuan entitlement would be extremely difficult to repeal, and would inevitably lead to low-quality, rationed healthcare in the short term, national bankruptcy in the long term.

Hostile business climate. Nancy Pelosi says the government has "harsh decisions" to make regarding assigning blame and doling out punishment for the financial panic. The ball and chain Sarbanes-Oxley put on American business will feel like a sweatband compared to the shackles coming next. The first victims will be the financial, energy, telecom, biotech, and pharmaceutical industries. Needless to say, this will not shorten the economic downturn. Fortunately for Democrats, the worse the economy, the more cover they have to inflict socialism, making it worst still. This vicious spiral will not stop until communist America finds itself rooting through Dumpsters for food.

Union supremacy. Unions are a cancer that have all but killed the American auto industry. Dems want to do away with secret ballot elections so that intimidation tactics can be used to make them vastly more powerful. The Orwellian "Employee Free Choice Act" — supported by Obama — entails forcing businesses to recognize a union even where the majority of workers don't want to unionize.

Taxes. Obviously an economic slowdown is not a good time to raise taxes. Yet Obama has made it clear he will jack taxes through the ceiling. Supposedly this will only affect "the rich." Anyone with even a rudimentary understanding of economics knows that it will hurt us all by crippling the economy.

Ecolunacy. Cap and trade schemes based on the fictional global warming crisis would make a recession permanent by inflicting punitive taxation on all economically productive activity. I hope the polar bears appreciate it.

Voting rights. Election-day voter registration is already leading to chaos in Ohio. This would likely go national, as anything that facilitates voter fraud helps Democrats, whose appeal is to moral degenerates who don't feel they should have to earn anything, including election victories. Felons may get the right to vote nationwide — another big boon to Democrats, for obvious reasons.

Freedom of speech. Some new form of the "Fairness Doctrine" would be employed to shut up Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and anyone else who might use the airwaves to rally resistance against socialism. Next the Left would target the Internet, under the guise of "net neutrality." But don't worry, Keith Olbermann will still to be around to keep you informed.

Special interests. It will be Christmas every day for teachers unions and trial lawyers. There are limits to how much damage termites can do to a structure before it is no longer sound.

Terrorism. Look for O.J. Simpson–style civil courts for every last foreign terrorist who comes into custody. Hamas has its reasons for endorsing Obama.

[cobra bill]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

The Wall Street Journal warns that if Dems get BHO in the White House and a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, we will enter "a period of unchecked left-wing ascendancy."

Among the consequences:

Socialized medicine. This gargantuan entitlement would be extremely difficult to repeal, and would inevitably lead to low-quality, rationed healthcare in the short term, national bankruptcy in the long term.


We are the only industrialized nation not to care for its people, and for those that do, its cheaper and better! Check the stats on any Scandinavian country.



Hostile business climate. Nancy Pelosi says the government has "harsh decisions" to make regarding assigning blame and doling out punishment for the financial panic. The ball and chain Sarbanes-Oxley put on American business will feel like a sweatband compared to the shackles coming next. The first victims will be the financial, energy, telecom, biotech, and pharmaceutical industries. Needless to say, this will not shorten the economic downturn. Fortunately for Democrats, the worse the economy, the more cover they have to inflict socialism, making it worst still. This vicious spiral will not stop until communist America finds itself rooting through Dumpsters for food.

Someone needs to go to jail for this one, and its not likely they will be too harsh on business, they contribute money too. Socialism has been turned into a bad word, it, has nothing to do with communism not even close and right now we resemble a Fascist government, and does the Constitution not say We the People, sounds social to me.


Union supremacy. Unions are a cancer that have all but killed the American auto industry. Dems want to do away with secret ballot elections so that intimidation tactics can be used to make them vastly more powerful. The Orwellian "Employee Free Choice Act" — supported by Obama — entails forcing businesses to recognize a union even where the majority of workers don't want to unionize.

Unions are what made the middle class in this country an gave us 8 hour work days and vacations, and sick days, and child labor laws, once again its been given a bad wrap by the cons they would like nothing more then to turn this into a 3rd world nation, ware labor is cheap and profits soar, they will bring back the robber barens.


Taxes. Obviously an economic slowdown is not a good time to raise taxes. Yet Obama has made it clear he will jack taxes through the ceiling. Supposedly this will only affect "the rich." Anyone with even a rudimentary understanding of economics knows that it will hurt us all by crippling the economy.

Who's going to pay down the debt? Or do we keep putting it on the ole credit card? Aren't you guys always talking about personal reasonability.


Ecolunacy. Cap and trade schemes based on the fictional global warming crisis would make a recession permanent by inflicting punitive taxation on all economically productive activity. I hope the polar bears appreciate it.



Actually there is a huge growth potential in going green and will be lots of jobs and profit to be made.



Voting rights. Election-day voter registration is already leading to chaos in Ohio. This would likely go national, as anything that facilitates voter fraud helps Democrats, whose appeal is to moral degenerates who don't feel they should have to earn anything, including election victories. Felons may get the right to vote nationwide — another big boon to Democrats, for obvious reasons.

OK one name comes to mind, Kenneth Blackwell, nice try!


Freedom of speech. Some new form of the "Fairness Doctrine" would be employed to shut up Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and anyone else who might use the airwaves to rally resistance against socialism. Next the Left would target the Internet, under the guise of "net neutrality." But don't worry, Keith Olbermann will still to be around to keep you informed.

OK how do you explain the fact! That on basis overseas and in the USA only Fox, and the right wing airbags that you mentioned are allowed to be broadcast? Freedom of speech? Not in my book, on my computer at work I cant listen to Air America, its blocked, but I can listen to those windbags!


Special interests. It will be Christmas every day for teachers unions and trial lawyers. There are limits to how much damage termites can do to a structure before it is no longer sound.

I have to tell you most trial lawyers are republicans.

Terrorism. Look for O.J. Simpson–style civil courts for every last foreign terrorist who comes into custody. Hamas has its reasons for endorsing Obama.


It is a law enforcement matter, not a military matter. The military is trained to fight wars, its best left to law enforcement and the FBI and CIA to deal with.
They are not nation builders either.

I know we will never agree on anything, but think about the reasons the cons want to make unions a bad word, as well as socialism and host of others, they only like socialism if it benefits them, and if you don't like paying a fair wage for labor, go some ware else, but we should bring back tariffs, if it cost a dollar to make a widget here, and can be done in China for 15 cents, then there should be an 85 cent tariff, to keep the jobs here in America!

[427 S/O]

Quote CDC:... Union supremacy. Unions are a cancer that have all but killed the American auto industry. Dems want to do away with secret ballot elections so that intimidation tactics can be used to make them vastly more powerful. The Orwellian "Employee Free Choice Act" — supported by Obama — entails forcing businesses to recognize a union even where the majority of workers don't want to unionize.

Unions have long expired there original intent, this is the perfect law to close plants and accelerate offshore manufacturing.

Quote CDC:.... Freedom of speech. Some new form of the "Fairness Doctrine" would be employed to shut up Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and anyone else who might use the airwaves to rally resistance against socialism. Next the Left would target the Internet, under the guise of "net neutrality." But don't worry, Keith Olbermann will still to be around to keep you informed.

I don't know how closer one can get to communism with this law????..BTW, you know your a brain dead liberal if you can set through a one hour episode of olbermann. I tried, but the nauseous was overwhelming.....

You CAN look forward to the remaining if a 'O'NO party.

[cobra de capell]

One more thing - BO's tax cut covering 95% of Americans does include those who do not pay federal taxes - his logic is that they pay payroll taxes (social security and medicare) so are entitled to a refund - therefore, he plans to take funds from Americans to pay Americans that do not pay federal tax, but he also notes that the payment to non-federal tax paying Americans is not Welfare. Hmmmmm.....isn't getting something for nothing, deserving or not Welfare?

We are all screwed if BO gets elected and a few members here are directly or indirectly behind that effort.

"ABC News' Sunlen Miller reports: Standing beneath the Gateway Arch in downtown St Louis, Senator Obama responded to claims from the McCain campaign that his tax plan is a "welfare" program because it gives tax credits for people who don't pay federal income taxes.

"I'm not giving tax cuts to folks who don't work, I'm giving tax cuts to people who do work. John McCain is so out of touch with the struggles you are facing that he must be the first politician in history to call a tax cut for working people 'welfare.'"

It is true that the Obama refundable tax credits plan does benefit people who are not paying federal income taxes. But, Obama's tax credits go to people who pay payroll taxes, even if they are too low-income to pay federal income taxes. The Obama campaign says most working people pay more in payroll taxes than income tax."

[nevermind65]

There's 427 foaming at the mouth again...LOL "Unions have long expired there original intent, this is the perfect law to close plants and accelerate offshore manufacturing."

Maybe you shouldn't talk about stuff you really know nothing about. Unions may have contributed to the situation, but greed from the corporate big shots and the "Wal-Mart" mentality have done the rest. Facts are facts...the jobs were driven offshore because the consumer is looking for the lowest price and the big shots want to hoard more money.

I visit 4 Japanese owned NON-UNION companies manufacturing parts for Honda. The prevailing wage at these facilities is probably 1/2 that of a union facility and guess what? Honda has told them to cut costs by 12% this year. One company is already looking to South America and Central America to set-up shop because they cannot compete with that amount of cost cutting.

Unions were the first to take the brunt of the cost cutting because they were easy targets. Now we will start to see the rest go.

[nevermind65]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

The Wall Street Journal warns that if Dems get BHO in the White House and a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, we will enter "a period of unchecked left-wing ascendancy."

Among the consequences:

Socialized medicine. This gargantuan entitlement would be extremely difficult to repeal, and would inevitably lead to low-quality, rationed healthcare in the short term, national bankruptcy in the long term.

Hostile business climate. Nancy Pelosi says the government has "harsh decisions" to make regarding assigning blame and doling out punishment for the financial panic. The ball and chain Sarbanes-Oxley put on American business will feel like a sweatband compared to the shackles coming next. The first victims will be the financial, energy, telecom, biotech, and pharmaceutical industries. Needless to say, this will not shorten the economic downturn. Fortunately for Democrats, the worse the economy, the more cover they have to inflict socialism, making it worst still. This vicious spiral will not stop until communist America finds itself rooting through Dumpsters for food.

Union supremacy. Unions are a cancer that have all but killed the American auto industry. Dems want to do away with secret ballot elections so that intimidation tactics can be used to make them vastly more powerful. The Orwellian "Employee Free Choice Act" — supported by Obama — entails forcing businesses to recognize a union even where the majority of workers don't want to unionize.

Taxes. Obviously an economic slowdown is not a good time to raise taxes. Yet Obama has made it clear he will jack taxes through the ceiling. Supposedly this will only affect "the rich." Anyone with even a rudimentary understanding of economics knows that it will hurt us all by crippling the economy.

Ecolunacy. Cap and trade schemes based on the fictional global warming crisis would make a recession permanent by inflicting punitive taxation on all economically productive activity. I hope the polar bears appreciate it.

Voting rights. Election-day voter registration is already leading to chaos in Ohio. This would likely go national, as anything that facilitates voter fraud helps Democrats, whose appeal is to moral degenerates who don't feel they should have to earn anything, including election victories. Felons may get the right to vote nationwide — another big boon to Democrats, for obvious reasons.

Freedom of speech. Some new form of the "Fairness Doctrine" would be employed to shut up Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and anyone else who might use the airwaves to rally resistance against socialism. Next the Left would target the Internet, under the guise of "net neutrality." But don't worry, Keith Olbermann will still to be around to keep you informed.

Special interests. It will be Christmas every day for teachers unions and trial lawyers. There are limits to how much damage termites can do to a structure before it is no longer sound.

Terrorism. Look for O.J. Simpson–style civil courts for every last foreign terrorist who comes into custody. Hamas has its reasons for endorsing Obama.

AHHHHH....THE SKY IS FALLING CHICKEN LITTLE!

Heard the same thing from the left in 2000 and 2004. I'm still alive and the U.S. is cranking right along..albeit almost bankrupt from the Repubs over the last 8 or so years, but still going strong!

Somehow I have the feeling everything will be fine and dandy in the next 4-8 years no matter who gets in office. The debt will increase, finger-pointing will continue, but we will still be the envy of every country in the world.

[cobra de capell]

In 2006 the Democrats asked the American electorate to cast a vote for change. The American people listened. For the first time in 12 years the control of the US House and Senate were turned over to the Democratic Party led by Nancy Pelosi in the House and Harry Reid in the Senate. Since that time the price of gas has risen from $2.33 per gallon to a top last summer of over $4.00/gallon, inflation has gone up from 2.1% to 5.4%, unemployment from 4.6 % to 6.1%, foreclosures have double and now we see the market dropping from a high of over 14,000 to a low of 8300 with no end to the drop in sight. During this long election cycle we have been assailed by every Democrat who can find a microphone that we are presently seeing the results of eight years of failed Bush administration policy. Based on the facts it would seem to me that we are seeing less the results of 8 years of the Bush administration and more the results of the policies of the first 2 years of the Pelosi/Reid/OBama administration.

I believe it is time for thinking people to stop listening to the liberal media and Democrat politicians, check the facts and realize that in a time when the Country is engaged in two shooting wars, an undeclared war on terror and the greatest financial crisis of our lifetime, that it is time to put adults back in charge in Washington.

[cobra de capell]

[cobra bill]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

In 2006 the Democrats asked the American electorate to cast a vote for change. The American people listened. For the first time in 12 years the control of the US House and Senate were turned over to the Democratic Party led by Nancy Pelosi in the House and Harry Reid in the Senate. Since that time the price of gas has risen from $2.33 per gallon to a top last summer of over $4.00/gallon, inflation has gone up from 2.1% to 5.4%, unemployment from 4.6 % to 6.1%, foreclosures have double and now we see the market dropping from a high of over 14,000 to a low of 8300 with no end to the drop in sight. During this long election cycle we have been assailed by every Democrat who can find a microphone that we are presently seeing the results of eight years of failed Bush administration policy. Based on the facts it would seem to me that we are seeing less the results of 8 years of the Bush administration and more the results of the policies of the first 2 years of the Pelosi/Reid/OBama administration.

I believe it is time for thinking people to stop listening to the liberal media and Democrat politicians, check the facts and realize that in a time when the Country is engaged in two shooting wars, an undeclared war on terror and the greatest financial crisis of our lifetime, that it is time to put adults back in charge in Washington.

Can you say filibuster! look at the record, the reason nothing got done in this past 2 years is the dems did not have a clear majority! And the cons decided if they cant rule then they will stop it from working, that's why you will become an insignificant party for the next 20 years the people are no longer fooled by the rhetoric the lies and the scare tactics. We are taking our country back like it or not.

[HI Cobra]

I guess that is why in the middle of the gas crisis this summer Pelosi and
and party took a 5 week summer vacation rather than address it.
Nice job they have for themselves.

[cobra bill]

OK and just what were they supposed to do about it? If Bush and Cheney could not do anything about there buddies in OPEC what are Pelosi an party supposed to do, the reason the oil prices were so high was the devaluation of the dollar, and let me see, I think that's from using the credit card to pay for 2 wars and a shadow war, and the biggest increase in the size of government that anyone has ever witnessed.

[NeoConMan]

Originally Posted by cobra bill

I think that's from using the credit card to pay for 2 wars and a shadow war

Ooohhhh!!!! The shadow war!
Sounds scary!

Originally Posted by cobra bill

and the biggest increase in the size of government that anyone has ever witnessed.

You'll find me in complete agreement here, and NOBODY is more pissed about it than I am!

Here's one little aspect of it nobody talks about;
Bush takes office, having already put Saddam Hussein on notice that the UN folly was gonna come to a stop.
(SEVENTEEN UN resolutions, Clinton should have started bombing after the first...)
He hasn't even unpacked the dishes when 9/11 happens, and finds the Clinton administration had been asleep at the international wheel for eight years.

The Democrats jump on the pro-war bandwagon because it's the trendy thing to do, and vote to go to war.
(You see, Bush was not in Congress.....)

War costs money, and the Defeatocrats were already crying that Bush was gonna slash social/entitlement spending. To keep the economy from collapsing by the end of 2001, he did everything he could to stimulate spending by every American, so he shelved any talk of cutbacks.

By 2003, the nation has succumbed to BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome) with the Typhoid Mary Defeatocrats spreading it like herpes in the ghetto. The media is pushing every Left-Wing hater into the spotlight, and stirring class warfare. Bush, in a stupid move, signs one spending bill after another with more waste every time, to try to buy goodwill with the Defeatocrats.
Just like McCain, he is slow to realize the Left hates him no matter what he does and they will gladly take whatever money the can grab for their "peeps" back home, and budgets balloon and explode every year.

Bush should have told them to go pack sand, and the nation should have been run like adults were in the driver's seat.
Anybody can run a gov't into the weeds, I wanna see somebody get back on the road.

I have my doubts about McCain, but Obama will destroy this economy and make the US susceptible in ways most people cannot imagine.

[MChat]

Obama is pushing change. That's all people want to hear.

What's going to happen by this time next year if Obama is elected and we get the "change" he promised: out of the frying-pan and into the fire.

If you don't like big government, I don't see how on earth you could vote for Obama who wants to bloat the government beyond belief.