October Surprise

[Bugman]

Anybody been following this? The first I heard of it was yesterday.

http://obamacrimes.com/

[Ron61]

I saw a small article some time back about that and then nothing, so I figured it was just another of the made up by someone things. I did a couple of searches later on and never found anything about it but I probably used the wrong search terms.

Ron

[MChat]

Here's the court documents.

http://dockets.justia.com/docket/cou...ase_id-281573/

Basically, Obama was given 30 days to submit the documents and he failed to do so. According to the law (supposedly, I'm no lawyer) that's the same as admitting guilt, hence the plaintiff has requested a summary judgement against Obama. The summary judgement has not been approved by the judge.

The question is, why isn't the media (even Fox News) not following this story? How hard is it to produce your birth certificate? If Obama is really a natural born citizen why the games, just submit your birth cert and be done with it.


Additionally, if it turns out Obama isn't a qualified candidate and the DNC has to scramble to get a "back up" candidate, what happens to all of the "early ballots" where votes were cast for Obama?

I don't think the votes should automatically be cast for the new candidate, nor should they just be "thrown away." Seems to me the only "proper" thing to do would be to invalidate all early ballots (for President) and have people recast their vote. To be fair there may have been some that voted for a 3rd party or McCain that would change their mind and vote for Obama's replacement (whoever that might be).

But then theres the whole thing of "technically" we aren't voting for a President, we're voting for "delegates" who will vote for President...


Or would a ruling against Obama so late in the game cause a flood of lawsuits to delay the Presidential Election (and counter lawsuits to proceed on schedule) until the DNC has had proper time to pick a new candidate and get some form of a campaign put together?

Either way, ultimately an Obama disqualification would result in further dividing this country.

And what affect would such a fiasco have on our economy/stock market?


If it comes out that Obama was born in Kenya and not Hawaii, would he be liable for all of the campain donations people gave him? It would need another court case to prove that he knowingly defrauded contributors... but it would be fraud, correct? If any of us started a business on false claims and defrauded millions of people out of hundreds of millions of dollars, we'd be heading to jail for sure.

This case against Obama has the potential to be the biggest scandal ever in U.S. political history. It actually has me a bit concerned; the reputation of the U.S. is at stake here. Aren't we supposed to be the "shining example" of democracy? IMO, this has the potential to end very badly.


No matter the outcome, because of how late it is in the "game" people are going to be very upset over this, if it turns out Obama is disqualified. Funny thing is I know the Democrats and Media will blame the Republicans, even though the lawsuit was filed by a Democrat.

[MChat]

More:

http://www.wptv.com/news/local/story...5-2bf8d0c717c4

[J. T. Toad]

for the latest in updates for the suit...

http://www.americasright.com/

[J. T. Toad]

Anybody notice that Judge Surrick is a Clinton appointee?

[wtm442]

Both candidates were hard pressed about 6 months to a year ago to prove they were qualified. So McCain provided a copy of his birth certificate and other documentation proving he was born in the Canal Zone, which at the time was considered US territory.

Case closed regarding McCain.

But about a month ago, someone started a lawsuit that said Obama was technically not a naturalized US citizen, so he could not be President.

What did Obama's lawyers do? Did they supply proof of Obama's birth inside US territory? Any other paperwork to settle the suit?

NO. The lawyers just tried to squash the suit by saying it was frivolous and just a nuisance lawsuit.

Stay tuned. This may be a bombshell. It may be nothing. Stay tuned.

Oh, I heard this info on talk radio this morning - Laura Ingram.

[VRM]

Ok, I have not had time yet to read all the stuff you guys are presenting, but I have a few questions.

1. I think somebody tried to pull the same sort of thing with McCain (he was born in Panama) and the SJC determined that only Congress can determine if the qualifications have been met.

2. This case has been granted a stay - so that nothing has been confirmed or denied.

3. What does it matter if he was born in Kenya or Hawaii? His mother was an American citizen and according to code 1401 "(h) a person born before noon (Eastern Standard Time) May 24, 1934, outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States of an alien father and a mother who is a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, had resided in the United States."

So what exactly is the issue?

Steve

[J. T. Toad]

Read the arguments from the website Steve.

Your questionable reasoning is answered there.

What is at issue, is the verification of a constitutional requirement for President.

[MChat]

Originally Posted by VRM

a person born before noon (Eastern Standard Time) May 24, 1934, outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States of an alien father and a mother who is a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, had resided in the United States.

Obama was born in 1961. It appears there may have been a law change and those born before May 24, 1934 were "grandfathered" in?

Either way, I know there are laws on birth's outside of the U.S. (I.e. children of military members). Part of this lawsuit alledges that Obama (if born in Kenya) does not meet the requirements.

The other part of the suit alledges that Obama lost (gave up) his U.S. citizenship when his mother married an Indonesian citizen and naturalized in Indonesia (Indonesia at the time did not allow for dual citizenships, therefore he would have had to renounce his U.S. citizenship). On top of that, he never became a naturalized citizen.

If either of these are true, Obama is, for all intents and purposes, an illegal alien.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by MChat

Obama was born in 1961. It appears there may have been a law change and those born before May 24, 1934 were "grandfathered" in?

Either way, I know there are laws on birth's outside of the U.S. (I.e. children of military members). Part of this lawsuit alledges that Obama (if born in Kenya) does not meet the requirements.

The other part of the suit alledges that Obama lost (gave up) his U.S. citizenship when his mother married an Indonesian citizen and naturalized in Indonesia (Indonesia at the time did not allow for dual citizenships, therefore he would have had to renounce his U.S. citizenship). On top of that, he never became a naturalized citizen.

If either of these are true, Obama is, for all intents and purposes, an illegal alien.

MChat,
Sorry, I posted the wrong one:
"(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years:" There is a proviso that grants physical presence to people serving in the military, or working for the government.


My understanding for somebody in Obamas case (if he could have claimed citizenship in either country) is that he would not have to declare his citizenship until he is 18 or 21. His mum could have given up her citizenship, but that would not have taken away his if he was born whilst she was a US citizen.

Either way, this is going to be interesting, but, like the McCain lawsuit, I think it will turn out to be just another bit of melodrama.

Steve

[cobra de capell]

First to VRM - WOW, you are showing your lame side, big time - but, not a problem - it's a huge buggerin' part of you.


The players: United States District Court Judge, Honorable R. Barclay Surrick was a Clinton appointee, and Berg was a Hillary Clinton supporter. He filed the suit just after Hillary lost the nomination (on her behalf ?) He seems to know what he’s doing and is doggedly pursuing every angle to get the real and authentic Kenyan birth certificate.

HONOLULU, HI)(October 22, 2008) Internet powerhouse Andy Martin told a Honolulu news conference today that after an intense international investigation he is convinced that Barack Obama, Junior, the presidential candidate is really the son of Obama's controversial mentor Frank Marshall Davis.

"Mendacious adults 'switched' Obama at birth. That is why he has refused to allow access to the original or 'vault' birth certificate," Martin told a Honolulu news conference. "We believe the original certificate did not list a father. Barack Obama became the father as a result of an agreement between Ann Dunham, Frank Marshall Davis and Barack Obama, Sr.

"Davis was already married to a White Woman. He did not need a nonmarital child by a second one. Ann probably refused to have what was then called a 'back alley' abortion. Davis may have felt that 'Obama' would face less stigma with an 'African' background than a Negro one. The civil rights revolution, of course, turned that gambit upside down. In discovering and understanding what happened we cannot forget we are dealing with events in 1961, not 2008.

"The irony in all of this is that Obama once stated he did not want his daughters to be 'victimized' with a child. And he is alive because his mother took the contrary view.

"Barack Obama has known this since adulthood, and the shock of this discovery still reverberates in his psyche.

[VRM]

Ok, I did some more digging.
Under Indonesian law if Obama was adopted then he would have given up his US citizenship. If his mother was married (legally anyway) to an Indonesian then she would have given up her citizenship, but Obama would have kept his if he was not adopted.

This is shaping up to be something rather interesting.

Steve

[392cobra]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

HONOLULU, HI)(October 22, 2008) Internet powerhouse Andy Martin told a Honolulu news conference today that after an intense international investigation he is convinced that Barack Obama, Junior, the presidential candidate is really the son of Obama's controversial mentor Frank Marshall Davis.

"Mendacious adults 'switched' Obama at birth. That is why he has refused to allow access to the original or 'vault' birth certificate," Martin told a Honolulu news conference. "We believe the original certificate did not list a father. Barack Obama became the father as a result of an agreement between Ann Dunham, Frank Marshall Davis and Barack Obama, Sr.

"Davis was already married to a White Woman. He did not need a nonmarital child by a second one.

"Barack Obama has known this since adulthood, and the shock of this discovery still reverberates in his psyche.

So,Obama really is a Ba$turd.

[SP01715]

Savage will have the former attorney general of PA. on in the next 1/2 hour. He is a lifelong democrat and has filed a lawsuit stating Obama was born in Kenya. Should be interesting.

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by 392cobra

So,Obama really is a Ba$turd.

Hmmmm.......interesting way to look at it - the buzz is that there is, at the very least, something very embarrassing relating to the birth certificate and that is why Obama and his troops do not want it released to the public. Releasing it is such a minor issue, normally.

Obama really does appear to be the Manchurian Candidate with a mystery at every turn. His mother adds to the mystery - what a piece of work she must have been with her parents, at least in pictures, looking like the salt of the earth type American couple - man, does Obama's grandmother have a tale to tell, or what? But, she's not talking. Even the fact that the grandmother has not been seen in public, but has been depicted as racist by Obama adds to the complete mystery relating to a person that just could be the next POTUS. Double YIKES!

By the way, can anyone here even imagine what Obama thinks about anyone that owns a Cobra? We'll just need to gather up the liberal Cobra owners and have them deliver their rides to the homeless to live in - that should satisfy Obama, initially.

[SP01715]

He says that he has Obama's paternal grandmother on tape saying he was born in Kenya and she was in the delivery room.

Here is a link to the website outlining the lawsuit. This might get good.

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oGklbR_Q...amacrimes.com/

[J. T. Toad]

Consider the timing of his trip to Hawaii... it would seem highly suspect.

[MChat]

Originally Posted by VRM

MChat,
Sorry, I posted the wrong one:
"(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years:" There is a proviso that grants physical presence to people serving in the military, or working for the government.


My understanding for somebody in Obamas case (if he could have claimed citizenship in either country) is that he would not have to declare his citizenship until he is 18 or 21. His mum could have given up her citizenship, but that would not have taken away his if he was born whilst she was a US citizen.

Either way, this is going to be interesting, but, like the McCain lawsuit, I think it will turn out to be just another bit of melodrama.

Steve

From another forum, I guess it has something to do with Obama's mother's age when he was born that she doesn't qualify with the above. Perhaps she didn't live in the U.S. for 2 or more years after she turned 14?

[turnpike boy]

A trip to Hawaii to visit his failing grandmother....certainly unable to speak to anyone but him.