No Roger, it was a Federal mandate that moved the auto industry. And we don't live in a dictatorship, so it wouldn't be an Obama or a McCain mandate. It would be a properly enacted Federal law with a long phase-in period.
Indeed it was. After long and thorough analysis on both their parts, with clear objectives well established long before there was a law. When Obama stands before the crowd and lays out just how things are gonna be, does that sound reasoned? Has this been the subject of extensive conversation between the industry and his office? And, if it has, shouldn't that have been at least mentioned? The principal objection here is the authoritarian, heavy-handed delivery - and that didn't come from McCain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clayfoushee
If it truly proved to be impossible to find a way to either use clean-coal technology or a phase-out, and to meet our energy needs, that law would be rather quickly repealed. !
Mmmm...just like Prohibition. What'd that take? - 18 -20 years? But I agree, finding themselves without microphone power or television availability would motivate politicians with resolve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clayfoushee
People need to lay off the hysteria and THINK rationally!
Beginning - with ALL of the pols. Especially these two.
Roger, you are leaping to conclusions on an Obama position on coal based upon a hacked-up, taken out of context, video, which was pasted together by someone trying to whip up hysteria in a couple of swing states out of desperation. As I said, McCain's position is very similar, or at least it was a few weeks ago.
And no, the auto industry was not happy long after the Federal mandates on emissions and CAFE were imposed, and they still talked of doom and gloom. They were not happy when President George W. Bush signed into law a bill, which recently upped the ante on the CAFE standards.
You're much smarter than that, and you're not CDC.
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Last edited by clayfoushee; 11-03-2008 at 05:51 PM..
I certainly think you're correct, on all accounts . Although, the jury is still out on just how correct, at least with regard to my rationale .
Again, CAFE standards are established with industry input. CARB tends to evaluate and decide on their own. The bill GWB signed was not welcomed, any more than increased taxes are by us. It's absorbed, but not welcomed.
And, nope, no CdC here. But 'twixt the two candidates available, one is far more starry-eyed. Rooted in reality, I sure hope - but with what appears will wind up a one-party government I need better than hope, at least the kind they espouse.
CdC and TB,
Since you both seem to think that taking a candidate out of context makes you look like you have some sort of argument to make (and that it gives you a great new slogan to throw around), lets go ahead and try it on your guys.
Now here's an energy policy you can really get behind, right? From an 'energy expert' and everything!
Flag the Molecules!!
You betcha it's hard ta pin flags on all those molecules, 'cause they're so small, but I'm bettin' that those molecules will stand up proud an' wear those flag pins like the patriotic American molecules they are!
I've interviewed candidates for job positions before, and if any of them ever answered a question like that they would generally be considered a BS'er. But go right ahead and vote for them.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VRM
CdC and TB,
Since you both seem to think that taking a candidate out of context makes you look like you have some sort of argument to make (and that it gives you a great new slogan to throw around), lets go ahead and try it on your guys.
Now here's an energy policy you can really get behind, right? From an 'energy expert' and everything!
Flag the Molecules!!
You betcha it's hard ta pin flags on all those molecules, 'cause they're so small, but I'm bettin' that those molecules will stand up proud an' wear those flag pins like the patriotic American molecules they are!
I've interviewed candidates for job positions before, and if any of them ever answered a question like that they would generally be considered a BS'er. But go right ahead and vote for them.
The bottomline VRM - you are a buggerin' wanker, therefore no one would want to work for you anyway. You and Ron Paul make for a perfect couple and now it's time for you both to recede into some hole for four more years, regardless of who wins.
By the way, if BO wins - kiss your Cobra and any other toys you may have goodbye, along with at least 1/2 of any savings. Your Cobra will be given to a homeless guy in the hood and your savings to hookers and pimps all over the country. You? you're screwed.
The bottomline VRM - you are a buggerin' wanker, therefore no one would want to work for you anyway. You and Ron Paul make for a perfect couple and now it's time for you both to recede into some hole for four more years, regardless of who wins.
By the way, if BO wins - kiss your Cobra and any other toys you may have goodbye, along with at least 1/2 of any savings. Your Cobra will be given to a homeless guy in the hood and your savings to hookers and pimps all over the country. You? you're screwed.
CdC,
I am not a manager - I have no interest in it. I'm a technical person, and I was interviewing to evaluate the potential candidates technical aptitude. If a candidate had responded like Palin they would have been shown the door.
Lets see - I've already kissed a huge chunk of my savings goodbye, I was laid off earlier this year and prior to that had no raise for about 5 years due to cost cutting and sending jobs to Brazil. I found a job 3 weeks after my termination date. I am one of the lucky ones. I have friends whose standard of living has eroded a lot more significantly than mine in the last few years.
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For some reason, Steve, I cannot get the picture of whatever it was that you posted. Not a big deal; I have a good imagination and can probably guess the nature of what it is.
As to out of context, it's a hair difficult to take something said "out of context" when you watch the question asked and the immediate response to same. If the question wasn't understood by the responder, that hardly makes observations from here out of context. As you clearly ASSumed that I hadn't had that opportunity (and it wasn't from cDc's post - I can't get that either), the attempt to inveigh ignorance is laughable.
On the other hand, since you apparently are quick to judge and seemingly blind to difficult truths, it doesn't surprise me that you find whatever vacuous reasons to support your perspectives. Arguments are just that - discussions, on the other hand, attempt to find fact amid the noise. Plugging one's ears because of the noise doesn't make what does get heard, fact.
There is no interest from here in making any effort to explain or justify what has been said. It is a matter of record, straight from Obama's lips. The question was unambiguous and direct - as was his reply. The principal difference between the two candidates is that one wants changes to coal policies, and the other will mandate them at all cost.
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" A splash of green for the rust belt "
November 3, 2008
By Peter S. Goodman
" NEWTON, Iowa - Like his uncle, his grandfather and many of their neighbors, Arie Versendaal spent decades working at the Maytag factory here, turning coils of steel into washing machines.
When the plant closed last year, taking 1,800 jobs out of this town of 16,000 people, it seemed a familiar story of American industrial decline: another company town brought to its knees by the vagaries of global trade.
Except that Mr. Versendaal has a new factory job, at a plant here that makes blades for turbines that turn wind into electricity. Across the road, in the old Maytag factory, another company is building concrete towers to support the massive turbines. Together, the two plants are expected to employ nearly 700 people by early next year. "
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The principal difference between the two candidates is that one wants changes to coal policies, and the other will mandate them at all cost.
-Roger
Roger, Roger, Roger, we just went through this last night. Please tell me what special new powers a new President will have to mandate such a policy. It doesn't work that way, Constitutionally speaking.
Do you, by any chance, remember the newly-inaugurated President Clinton's effort, spear-headed by Hillary in 1993, to implement universal healthcare? He had the advantage of a D House and D Senate, and he totally failed to get that done.
Had he had this magical mandate you keep referring to, it would have been no problem. You also need to remember there are quite a few influential Ds representing the coal producing states.
And please show me the part of the Obama speech where he said he would seek to phase-out coal anywhere in the near-term. You are beginning to sound like CDC.
Clay, Clay, Clay, Clay!! Yes, we did go thru this last nite - and I'm glad to see nothing has changed between here and there
Permit me to begin with the bottom statement in your post - can't show you where Obama would wipe coal from the face of the earth, near-term - mostly because I never said he would, nor did he. What he did say was that he would seek regulation of the industry that would bankrupt it, and/or make the use so cost-prohibitive as to bankrupt it. Now, in all fairness, he was specifically addressing the electical-generating industry, so I suppose all who use coal to heat their houses might get a coal break....today, anyway.
And, yes, I remember well Hillary's efforts at Universal Health Care. I also remember Bill taking a tacit side-line in the whole effort, deferring any and all comment to her since she was taking the lead in the attempt. Hardly a ringing endorsement and strong backing, eh? When the President, who's also your husband, doesn't strong-arm congressional members to fall in line with the policy, where's it gonna go? On the other hand, Obama's charisma has so many hearts a-flutter that it's not much of a stretch to think he's better able to reach his (potential) D super-majority in both houses of Congress with issues that might be....ah....controversial. Getting your way, after you've so stated it was your intention, is often seen as a mandate, rightly or wrongly. Just is what it is.
Not sure just which influential Dems, from coal-producing states, you're referencing, Clay. Not that Obama directly threatened production, mind you. But there are always ways (and means) to address those concerns, too.
And. Sorry if I am "....beginning to sound like CDC." It's not intentional, nor coordinated, if that matters. I just cannot seem to swallow the Obama Kool-Aid so readily gulped -and defended -by others around me.
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The airport " not in my back yard " syndrome will also expand to wind turbines. If I recall correctly, Senator Ted Kennedy was instrumental in stopping wind turbines 20 miles off shore from Cape Cod in MA where he has a residence, someone from MA correct the statement if this not true.
" The culprit, they say, is the whooshing sound from the five industrial wind turbines near the 6-acre spread where they have lived for 37 years. "I don't think anyone should have to put up with this," says Gerry Meyer, who compares the sound to a helicopter or a jet taking off. "
"As more turbines are built, the noise they create is stirring debate. Industry groups such as the American Wind Energy Association say there's no proof they make people sick, but complaints of nausea, insomnia and other problems have surfaced near wind farms across the USA "
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. Although, the jury is still out on just how correct, at least with regard to my rationale 
.
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Nice.....
Sweet. Progress for 700 - a great example of free enterprise at work. 
Clay, Clay, Clay, Clay!! Yes, we did go thru this last nite - and I'm glad to see nothing has changed between here and there 
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