Now here is a surprise....

[Cobrabill]

UAW leader: Workers will make no more concessions
By MARK WILLIAMS, AP Business Writer Mark Williams, Ap Business Writer – Sat Nov 15, 3:41 pm ET AP – In this Oct. 7, 2008. file photo, United Auto Workers president Ron Gettelfinger talks to reporters …
COLUMBUS, Ohio – Even as Detroit's Big Three teeter on collapse, United Auto Workers President Ron Gettelfinger said Saturday that workers will not make any more concessions and that getting the automakers back on their feet means figuring out a way to turn around the slumping economy.

"The focus has to be on the economy as a whole as opposed to a UAW contract," Gettelfinger told reporters on a conference call, noting the labor costs now make up 8 percent to 10 percent of the cost of a vehicle.

"We have made dramatic, dramatic changes and the UAW was applauded for that," he said.

Instead, Gettelfinger blamed the problems the auto industry is suffering from on things beyond its control — the housing slump, the credit crunch that has made financing a vehicle tough and the 1.2 million jobs that have been lost in the past year.

"We're here not because of what the auto industry has done," he said. "We're here because of what has happened to the economy."

Gettelfinger also called on Congress to act quickly on a bailout plan for the auto industry, saying action is necessary before President-elect Barack Obama takes office in January.

He said if one automaker were to file for bankruptcy, the others may follow. He said the automakers would find it difficult to restructure under bankruptcy laws and instead could end up out of business. "Would you buy a car from a bankrupt automaker?" he asked.

The Center for Automotive Research, which receives funding from the auto industry, has warned that the collapse of the Big Three could set off a catastrophic chain reaction in the economy, eliminating up to 3 million jobs and more than $150 billion in tax revenue over the next three years.

Gettelfinger called on Congress to act quickly to provide loans to help the automakers until the economy improves and the automakers can move ahead with their plans to become more competitive.

"We cannot afford to allow to see this industry collapse. There is a real concern that could happen."

General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC are seeking $25 billion from the government to get them through the economic crisis and the worst sales slump in more than 25 years. GM appears to be in the worst shape, warning that it can't borrow from normal sources.

The nation's largest automaker said it had $16.2 billion in cash at the end of September, raising the possibility that GM will fall below the minimum of $11 billion to $14 billion needed for day-to-day operations by the end of the year.

Democrats in the lame-duck Congress are pressing for a bailout of Detroit's Big Three with money from the $700 billion Wall Street rescue package. But President George W. Bush and many Republicans have come out against the idea, arguing that the financial rescue package was not intended for such uses, and that a bailout would reward poor management and lead other industries to demand government handouts.

[Ron61]

What he is really worried about is if the auto makers have to go out of business then his million dollar salary will be gone. No union dues, no pay. The dam unions are as much to blame for a lot of the problems as anyone else. They only care about how much they can collect and how much their national officers can stick in their pockets. Just like Congress on a smaller scale. Why does some person putting a nut on a bolt all day long have to be paid $25 dollars an hour or whatever ridiculous amount it is now?

I don't want to see the auto companies go out of business but would not care at all if the unions were to vanish.

Ron

[427 S/O]

Try $50+ an hour and other benefits that would make a plumber jealous. Yes, let them file for BK, they won't stop making autos, just reorganize their business plan.

[Smokingcobra2]

The average union worker at GM with benefit included makes $144.00 per hour. most make over $100.000.oo a year or more with over time. There pay averages about 98.00 per hpur comparied to toyotaworkers who make around 44.00. And which cars last longer. There begging for the toyota jobs. I have bought only one american car in the last 20 years, a chrysler sebring conv a few years back and it was at the dealrs 3-4 times. Have owned Nissan, Mitsubishi cars and NOT ONE ever went back.
joeg

[nevermind65]

Cancel all CEO and UAW contracts, them LEND them the money under the supervision of an oversight committee that has the authority to renegotiate the contracts.

[392cobra]

Originally Posted by Smokingcobra2

Have owned Nissan, Mitsubishi cars and NOT ONE ever went back.
joeg

I bought a 2004 Subaru WRX STi over 5 years ago.It's never needed any repairs.

Unions are job killers.

[427 S/O]

Quote: UAW leader: Workers will make no more concessions..

Wanna' bet!, It will be interesting to see how they handle it......

[Smokingcobra2]

They better realize-- we dont need there cars!!!
Or they will become obsolete like the dinosaurs that they are!! Typical union mentality!!

When if ever will they learn.
joeg

[427 S/O]

Quote; Sen. Jon Kyl

Auto industry 25 bil. bail out...

What does it pay for? Maybe five or six months' worth of their bills, and then they're right back where they are, and the taxpayers have nothing to show for it.


That's exactly right..........

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,452812,00.html

[427 S/O]

You guys better hope, or better yet, write/call your law makers and tell them 'NO' on any bailout for the auto industry. Man!, if they get it, the door will really open for all.

[Wayne Maybury]

I have a feeling that the Big 3 may go into bankruptcy protection as a strategic move. One of the biggest costs they have compared to the foreign auto producers is the overall benefits package. Even when sales were strong, it was estimated that there was about $1,700 of retiree benefit costs for every unit sold compared to $57 per unit for Hyundai for example. The Big 3 have been in business for almost 100 years so they have lots of retired workers who have incredible pension and health benefits because of the union contracts that were signed in the good times.

Bankruptcy protection would allow the companies to really re-negotiate the labor agreements they have and to also greatly reduce their retirement costs. The UAW still doesn't seem to get it however.

Wayne

[SPF2245]

I love the UAW, what other union has got some of the biggest companies in the world to pay a high school drop out more money then a cop, fireman or soldier (with a college degree???) and that is in less then three years of being on the job.

I would love nothing more then for the Big 3 to go into Chapter 11, tell all the UAW members to leave, don't come back, then and only then I'd give my tax dollar to them to rebuild and hire like Toyota and Honda does, pay them a decent rate ($15-20/hr) and if the company see's a huge profit, pay the employee a bonus (after paying the tax payer back +7% per year). Also, CEO/CFO/VP get's a pay cap of $500K, period. Give them stocks he/she can't sell for 10 years so they have a reason to push for the future not make a quick dime. I think it would work...oh, and tell the dealers if they can not put mark-up on a car, MSRP is it(I stopped buying domestic when I saw my first dealer "mark-up" and they told me the car was "popular"...funny, they had 15 others in the lot, just sitting there). My wifes BMW had no mark up, my Porsche had no "mark up" and my Superformance (hell, how long does the current buyer wait for a new one, I waited months and last time I checked, they along with my other examples are not looking for tax payer handouts) had no "mark up"...GM, Ford and Dodge lost a lot of my money.

[bulletbrown]

Please take a step back and look at the underlying problem that has lead to this complete loss of American industry. What is left. The textile industry, electronic ,machine tools , appliance and the list goes on. Why , because are goverment has been warned of this for thrity years that the trade laws where one sided and there was no fair in our trade laws. The Carter administration sold us out. Please list the ways we have benefited from this ? Now telling someone that they don't deserve there wages , heath care and pensions by someone else is what ? I have sold GM cars for 36 years and I have watch this demise and it is terrible and uncalled for . Japan ,Korea and China has abused are laws and now we owe them billions . If you can not hear the big sucking sound by now your deaf. Thanks U S goverment , now please tell us how to run are business.

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by bulletbrown

Please take a step back and look at the underlying problem that has lead to this complete loss of American industry. What is left. The textile industry, electronic ,machine tools , appliance and the list goes on. Why , because are goverment has been warned of this for thrity years that the trade laws where one sided and there was no fair in our trade laws. The Carter administration sold us out. Please list the ways we have benefited from this ? Now telling someone that they don't deserve there wages , heath care and pensions by someone else is what ? I have sold GM cars for 36 years and I have watch this demise and it is terrible and uncalled for . Japan ,Korea and China has abused are laws and now we owe them billions . If you can not hear the big sucking sound by now your deaf. Thanks U S goverment , now please tell us how to run are business.

Then you know that the last inovative thing GM did was the Corvair.Possible exception is the Fiero.GM has "screwed-the-pooch" for almost 35 years.It took them over 50 years to FINALLY get the Corvette right.In the late 60's they were warned when Datsun launched the 510,the 620 mini pick-up and the Z-car and hit one out of the park.Did they listen?Nope.The arrogance of the"here we built you a car,now buy it!!"attitude is still oozing from 14th floor today.


Detroit's problem is completely,100% SELF CAUSED.

[SPF2245]

Bullet, has it occurred to you that part of the reason there is a lack of demand for our products abroad goes past the trade issues, it's call are products are crap (ok, it's a generalized statement, but really, who wants an RCA when a Sony is so much better). I've lived in Germany and Korea for a few years (thank you US Army for the world tour), and let's just say, most Europeans laugh at our definition of quality and our technical advances. And lets not ask anyone to honestly compare a Honda to a Chevy for the past 20 years, because dollar for dollar, the Aisians and Europeans have made advances while we sold Grand Ams, Explorers and K-cars way past their usefulness and design life. If it wasn't for a couple lucky design breaks (the SUV) or rental/fleet sales, this would have happened a long time ago. Add this to the corrupt nature of the UAW and upper managment of each of the three divisions and well, my lack of compassion for the dealers, it was doomed to happen. I love America, but we've done alot of this to ourselves, and guess what, it's time for a shake up not another bill for the tax payer to allow this to continue.

[bulletbrown]

You mist the point , if we use Japan trade rules they would not be here. Why are we lossing every industry to imports? No import duties . They have them , Europe has them and we sell nothing to the Japanese , nothing for us in these trade deals , just lost jobs. The fair trade is a joke. We don't stick up for the American worker , they stick up for there workers . Open trade is one sided , you will lose everything like we did . Hate a AMERICA first is over.

[turnpike boy]

The voids will be filled. By whom, really doesn't matter. The plants and equipment left behind will be consumed and utilized by the entities that will follow in behind them, and the workers will be back at work, albeit at a likely much, much reduced income and benefit level. The consumer demand for their products will return, in time, as the overall economy finds its' way back to health. Who will fill that demand depends on who finds the way to hang on.

The venom for the union members in here is awesome. Can you blame any working stiff for taking a fabulous wage rate and even better benefits package? Sounds like sour grapes to me; if you worked for an outfit for 20 or 30 years at a great wage and with the promise of pensions and lifetime benefits, only to have them yanked out from under you when you're too old to find any real work anymore, do you think you'd be just willing to give it up without a fight? It ain't the MEMBERS who dug all that out of GM and Ford and Chrysler. They supported their union, absolutely - are you saying you never asked you boss for a raise? - never tried to improve your standing in the world? The packages they got were due to union bosses who DID THEIR JOB, arguably too well. It was company MANAGEMENT who screwed the pooch, first by agreeing to union contracts they had to know would cripple their company, then by permitting (so-called) crappy quality conditions and crappy product lines, all the while feathering their own beds with paychecks and bonuses that are flat-out obscene.

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by bulletbrown

You mist the point , if we use Japan trade rules they would not be here. Why are we lossing every industry to imports? No import duties . They have them , Europe has them and we sell nothing to the Japanese , nothing for us in these trade deals , just lost jobs. The fair trade is a joke. We don't stick up for the American worker , they stick up for there workers . Open trade is one sided , you will lose everything like we did . Hate a AMERICA first is over.

How about if the American worker stops making CRAP?

[turnpike boy]

Quality is a management decision, C'bill.

The value of what the workforce produces isn't wholly dependent on the brass hats; some pride in workmanship must show up in the men who do the work.

But it is the responsibility of management to ensure what gets produced is the best that can be.

[Scott S]

Originally Posted by turnpike boy

But it is the responsibility of management to ensure what gets produced is the best that can be.

So I walk up to somebody on the line and tell him/her for the 5th time they are still doing a crappy job, I document the discussion for the 5th time and forward the paper to the union rep for the 5th time. The union claims for the 5th time that the employee is not properly trained and I have the employee trained for the 6th time.

And you say it's a management problem? Have you ever heard a union rep say gawd your right in the best interest of the product and company fire the dumb SOB?

Scott S