Food for thought regarding Auto Industry

[Rick Parker]

An interesting commentary: 'CNN Headline News did a short news listing regarding Ford and GM's
contributions to the relief and recovery efforts in New York and Washington.


The findings are as follows.....

1. Ford- $1 million to American Red Cross matching employee contributions of
the same number plus 10 Excursions to NY Fire Dept. The company also offered
ER response team services and office space to displaced government
employees.

2. GM- $1 million to American Red Cross matching employee contributions of
the same number and a fleet of vans, suv's, and trucks.

3. Daimler Chrysler- $10 million to support of the children and victims of
the Sept. 11 attack.


4. Harley Davidson motorcycles - $1 million and 30 new motorcycles to the
New York Police Dept.

5. Volkswagen-Employees and management created a Sept 11 Foundation, funded
initial with $2million, for the assistance of the children and victims of
the WTC.

6. Hyundai- $300,000 to the American Red Cross.

7. Audi-Nothing.

8. BMW-Nothing.

9. Daewoo- Nothing.

10. Fiat-Nothing.

11. Honda - Nothing despite boasting of second best sales month ever in August 2001.
12. Isuzu- Nothing.
13. Mitsubishi-Nothing.

14. Nissan-Nothing.

15. Porsche-Nothing. Press release with condolences via the Porsche website.


16. Subaru- Nothing.

17. Suzuki- Nothing.

18. Toyota-Nothing despite claims of high sales in July and August 2001.
Condolences posted on the website.

Whenever the time may be for you to purchase or lease a new vehicle, keep
this infor mation in mind. You might want to give more consideration to a car
manufactured by an American-owned and / or American based company. Apart
from Hyundai and Volkswagen, the foreign car
companies contributed nothing at all to the citizens of the United States.

It's OK for these companies to take money out of this country, but it is
apparently not acceptable to return some in a time of crisis. I believe we
should not forget things like this. Say thank you in a way that gets their
attention.

[stuartb]

Audi and Volkswagon are the same company.

[Jamo]

I know I won't forget...basturds throw a few million as contirbutions and now want tens of billions for a bailout.

Pure BS...I going to stop funding American unions and buy foreign from now on.

[PatBuckley]

I wish people wouldn't post crap that is not factual - beside the fact that this lame attempt at making Amercian manufacturers look like hero's, this "information" is about 7 years old.

I know for a fact that Subaru did contribute heavily to 9/11.

[427 S/O]

The latest spin, 3-4 million auto workers will be out of work. Their counting napa and other parts suppliers, the guy that washes you car, the guy that sells tires, the mechanic shops and a host of others. Scare tactics won't work this time, they gotta get in line with the rest of us...

[jhv48]

One of the fears is if we let the big three flounder and possibly go under, we further depress the nationwide housing and unemployment market which deepens the recession.

It appears we are looking at the perfect financial storm. All roads lead to collapse one way or another. No one is going to be spared this time, even if it is only the value of your home going severly south.

Hang on, no matter what Congress and the big three do, we're all going to get screwed somehow!

[turnpike boy]

Originally Posted by jhv48

........ no matter what Congress and the big three do, we're all going to get screwed somehow!

THAT is iron-clad, and cut deep in stone.

[SPF2245]

Great, they donate a million or two and want a billion (or 25), where do I sign up 'cause I've got some money to give (as long as can I get a 1000% return on my donation too). And if the donation list makes any sense, who isn't asking for the tax payer dollar and which are actually selling products right now who are paying some sales taxes???

[Sharroll Celby]

ANY Bailout money, for ANY company requesting it, should only be on a "loan" basis, with stiff controls on executive pay and dividends paid. EVERYONE included on the bailout loan WILL be subjected to adjusted pay rates and benefit levels.

[turnpike boy]

...who it was that REALly got these companies where they are.

Give you a hint: it ain't the unions, or their members.


IT'S MANAGEMENT, folks. They're the ones making the decisions. Including OK'ing the union contracts.

Any bailout, of any dimension, MUST carry with it the utter and absolute removal and replacement of the management.

Yes, the unions contributed. So did we, who didn't buy their products. So did shareholders, who refuse to do without regular dividends, regardless of the P/L ratios.

But thank management for the decision-making on all of this, from contract agreements to products produced to financial chicanery.

Captains go down with the ship; that's how it is. No exceptions.

[SPF2245]

Turnpike, I agree the so called captains have alot to answer for and it should cost them their jobs w/o a nice severance package. However, having seen the UAW in action, they do often leave companies little option in regards to contact negotiations...in fact they are borderline criminal. I've seen the lock outs result from their unwillingness to talk, their "blue flues" and slow downs. I'm not impressed with either group, and quite frankly could careless if they execs loose their third homes or the UAW employee looses his second.

[nevermind65]

Originally Posted by SPF2245

Turnpike, I agree the so called captains have alot to answer for and it should cost them their jobs w/o a nice severance package. However, having seen the UAW in action, they do often leave companies little option in regards to contact negotiations...in fact they are borderline criminal. I've seen the lock outs result from their unwillingness to talk, their "blue flues" and slow downs. I'm not impressed with either group, and quite frankly could careless if they execs loose their third homes or the UAW employee looses his second.

Fact is...if a union goes on strike, the company is allowed to hire replacements. They can even be permanent replacements, so saying the union is the cause isn't really a valid argument.

The problem with American companies, and especially GM, is their crappy management. Remember just a few years ago when gas was skyrocketing in price and GM announced it was still going to continue putting their full effort behind their large SUV's instead of smaller more efficient vehicles? How did that work out?

I'm not a UAW fan, but greed on both sides took over common sense.

[Ron61]

Hasn't greed and corruption been the driving force behind almost all of our major problems for the past 30 years or so? And not just in the Auto Industry. Look at the old group of doddering fools we call congress.

Ron

[trularin]

These are the best threads.

Pass the popcorn please.

[Joe Wicked]

Originally Posted by nevermind65

Fact is...if a union goes on strike, the company is allowed to hire replacements. They can even be permanent replacements, so saying the union is the cause isn't really a valid argument.

The only problem with that is the new workers are untrained and do not know how to do the job they are hired to do. We recently experienced something similar with one of our repair centers. The agency that they hired to hire the work force was hiring a lot of illegals. The company did not do a check to see if the agency was following the rules and was raided by INS. Approx 50% of their workforce was arrested and deported. They had to hire all new people the next day to fill the slots. Immediately we had more than doubled Turn Around Time, and Quality tanked. We could not get a single lot to pass quality. We ended up taking the entire service center off line and training everyone as if it was a new center. Meantime, customers were pissed they were not getting their phones back. It took weeks to get production started again and we ended up paying millions of $$$ in penalties to our customers.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by nevermind65

Fact is...if a union goes on strike, the company is allowed to hire replacements. They can even be permanent replacements, so saying the union is the cause isn't really a valid argument.

The problem with American companies, and especially GM, is their crappy management. Remember just a few years ago when gas was skyrocketing in price and GM announced it was still going to continue putting their full effort behind their large SUV's instead of smaller more efficient vehicles? How did that work out?

I'm not a UAW fan, but greed on both sides took over common sense.

Excuse me, when was the last time you went through a strike situation and had to retain replacement employees?

Were those temporary replacement employees, or permanent replacement employees? What are the legal implications of hiring either? How long had the strike been going on before you made the decision to retain the replacement employees. Was the strike due to an impasse in negotiations, or was it based on allegations of bad faith bargaining with a resulting unfair labor practice charge/complaint...these issues, as I'm sure you must know, have a great deal to do with whether you are retaining temporary or permanent replacements. Are there going to be allegations that you are engaged in an offensive lockout if you hire the replacements, or are you engaging in a defensive lockout? What about unemployment benefits for strikers...do you know what the entitlement laws are in your state(s) of operation...do you want strikers to be funded with unemployment benefits...which turns on whether they are temporary or permanent replacements, depending the the particular state? Are you going to continue collecting union dues from the replacements? What about healthcare for both the strikers and the replacements?

As stated above, you do realize folks have to be processed within three days for I-9 purposes, correct? And you will most certainly be under the eyes of ICE since the union will be calling them everyday to allege you are hiring illegals. What about training the employees (as noted above in a less pressurized scenario)?

Are you going to continue negotiating during the strike, and if so...what promises have you made to any permanent replacements you hired? Are you going to be able to release them immediately or with some period of notice in order to bring back striking employees if you resolve the dispute?

The last GM strike lasted a couple of days...when do you decide to hire replacements? Do you know what a whip-saw strike is? How about slowdowns or intermittent work stoppages instead of strikes...what's going to be your response to them?

Please...I'd really like to hear how you'll respond to these minor questions with your broadbrush "no problemo" of being able to hire replacements. Once you do, I'll have a few thousand more questions that will need to be answered by an employer faced with a labor dispute.

Nothing is ever as simple as it seems.

[bomelia]

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/cars.asp

This is debunked. Case of mixing some truth, some lies, some BS.

Basturds go to Washington with hat in hand, and then are photographed getting on private jets to go back home. Maybe they should have flown coach? Or better yet, DRIVE one of their cars to DC? Jerks.

If they get a handout, it should come with a change in upper management. Yes, that might make them reconsider going and asking for money... thus letting their company slide into Chapter 7. Would a CEO do that? Well, the unions are doing the same exact dam thing.

Mike

[427 S/O]

Polsky/schumer temporarily took BK off the table in some sort of last ditch effort to reach a resolution..BS, the only resolution is hard core reorganization, BK or whatever you want to call it, it will happen. Right now!, our law makers are hearing from the folks, and it ain't pretty.....

[PatBuckley]

Originally Posted by bomelia

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/cars.asp

This is debunked. Case of mixing some truth, some lies, some BS.

Basturds go to Washington with hat in hand, and then are photographed getting on private jets to go back home. Maybe they should have flown coach? Or better yet, DRIVE one of their cars to DC? Jerks.

If they get a handout, it should come with a change in upper management. Yes, that might make them reconsider going and asking for money... thus letting their company slide into Chapter 7. Would a CEO do that? Well, the unions are doing the same exact dam thing.

Mike

Thanks for finding that - I knew it was BS.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Excuse me, when was the last time you went through a strike situation and had to retain replacement employees?

Were those temporary replacement employees, or permanent replacement employees? What are the legal implications of hiring either? How long had the strike been going on before you made the decision to retain the replacement employees. Was the strike due to an impasse in negotiations, or was it based on allegations of bad faith bargaining with a resulting unfair labor practice charge/complaint...these issues, as I'm sure you must know, have a great deal to do with whether you are retaining temporary or permanent replacements. Are there going to be allegations that you are engaged in an offensive lockout if you hire the replacements, or are you engaging in a defensive lockout? What about unemployment benefits for strikers...do you know what the entitlement laws are in your state(s) of operation...do you want strikers to be funded with unemployment benefits...which turns on whether they are temporary or permanent replacements, depending the the particular state? Are you going to continue collecting union dues from the replacements? What about healthcare for both the strikers and the replacements?

As stated above, you do realize folks have to be processed within three days for I-9 purposes, correct? And you will most certainly be under the eyes of ICE since the union will be calling them everyday to allege you are hiring illegals. What about training the employees (as noted above in a less pressurized scenario)?

Are you going to continue negotiating during the strike, and if so...what promises have you made to any permanent replacements you hired? Are you going to be able to release them immediately or with some period of notice in order to bring back striking employees if you resolve the dispute?


Nothing is ever as simple as it seems.

The laws would never allow anything be simple. They're written for that purpose, with thousands of layers of exceptions, allowance of loop holes, etc. Basically, lack of common sense.

I think the big three should be allowed to fail, and if anything is owed, then go after the personal assets of the management, and confiscation of retirement accounts of all. After bankruptcy, the UAW can then purchase whatever is left over, and run it themselves under whatever "contract arrangement" they feel is fair, and give everybody a great paying job.