Give me a break...

[Wes Tausend]

...

Rant on.

I see the bailout for the auto industry fell flat. But.

It looks like some a-hole members of congress are trying to blame loyal American labor again.

The bottom 16 percent of the collective wealth have to furnish all the manpower and also concede - yet again?

Give me a break.

So Labor makes up a paltry 10-15 percent of the cost of autos and this is where the deepest cuts have to be made? The American workers have already gone backwards for the last 20 years. American Honda and American Toyota workers wouldn't even get close to their wages if it weren't for UAW standards. Try more like wages at McDonalds. The elite upper 20 percent crust in this country has a lot of crust.

We have to "take care of business" because it generates jobs? Business investment owners NEVER generate jobs - they fill, or un-fill, voids in consumer demand to their benefit. Consumer demand from mostly the vast working class. Well thanks to gross mismanagement, the American working class soon won't be so vast anymore. Unless there is a huge move to citizen oversight (read government regulation). We apparently can't trust SOME business owners to do anything but fill their own pockets and now they are ruining it for everyone.

First of all, the American worker is all of us. There is no significant difference between UAW workers and any of the rest of us blue-collar workers. We are not bad guys. We work hard. The same fine people that work in America are the same people that brought home the Gold from the Chinese Olympics.

The American worker is the same American soldier ready to give his life as a warrior in Iraq and come home to what - some corporate manuver to outwit Labor and "re-structure" major industries to a new low "world standard" labor cost - if any job at all. Any body who disputes this is anti-American - period. Invest in China if you like. You can live there too. Don't expect us blue collar guys to protect you. We will be here defending our own soil.

It's the rowboat scenario again. The guys rowing get 10-15 percent of what they generate and all the blisters. The rest of the wealth goes to the lazy guy at the tiller calling cadence with the bulk going to the boat owner. Well I guess boat ownership is more expensive than I thought. I once heard that a boat, is a hole in the water, into which the owner throws money.

Rant off.

Wes


...

[427 S/O]

Wes, as I understand, the UAW is giving up nothing else?. Two findings that surprised me most, if a plant is closed, workers receive same salary for 'four' years unless their called back!, if their laid off they get 80% for a period of time. I guess their health insurance continues as well?. Your correct, many owe what they have to unions but, it just seems like what they got was never enough?.

[trularin]

What is not known by many is that the UAW already agreed to cut pay by a large amount a few years ago.

Days of the $30.00 per hour line worker are gone. Even skilled trades have been hit.

It is my understanding that many are upset with the top heavy executive structure that is not reducing their pay or benifits.

I have been wondering what the 15 billion was going to be used for. All the yards are full. I drove past Pontiac Truck and the lots are full. Making more is out of the question. So what are they going to do? Wait for people to have money to buy a vehicle?

JMHO

[427 S/O]

Exactly!, I don't believe they'll start up the lines when the money is deposited?, folks are simply not buying right now!.

[Ron61]

One of the best Ford Dealerships around here is going through a type of Chapter 11 now. Red Bluff Ford is trying to work it so they don't have to lay off any workers but according to the owner they have 400 new units on the lot and have to get that down to 200. How I don't know as they aren't selling. The other Ford Dealership I have been watching is corning which a lot of people go to and I haven't seen them issue any statements yet. Everyone avoids the Redding Dealership as they have been so overpriced the last 10 years and the service is so bad I don't know how they stay in business even in good times.

The big Cadillac and Jeep dealer in Redding shut down last week and has moved to a small place out near the airport and they are just going to handle jeeps from now on.The Pontiac dealer took over the Cadillac for now but no one has taken the other brand that dealer handled.

And then the great story of the 3 girls in Anderson that got fired from KFC yesterday. They took a bath in the big sink that they use to pre clean all of their stuff and one of them was so dumb she took pictures and posted them on her spot at My Space. Now all of the customers that bought food there that day are upset.

Ron

[VRM]

Originally Posted by Ron61

And then the great story of the 3 girls in Anderson that got fired from KFC yesterday. They took a bath in the big sink that they use to pre clean all of their stuff and one of them was so dumb she took pictures and posted them on her spot at My Space. Now all of the customers that bought food there that day are upset.

Ron

1. Were they naked?
2. Were they cute?

[VRM]

http://www.redding.com/photos/galler...splish-splash/

Cool!

[nevermind65]

Come on...you know this scenario. The American worker does not have a right to make a decent living. Granted, there are a few things the UAW could easily cut to help the situation (the job bank), but certain of our Senators want them to take a huge pay cut to match their Japanese counterparts.

I know a LOT of workers at the Japanese owned facilities in Ohio (second tier). Some of the highest paid workers only make $16.00 and couldn't even come close to buying one of the cars they make parts for.

Cars aren't selling, and cutting the wages to those that buy them isn't going to help the situation anymore. Fact is, the big 3 need good managers. Something they seem to have been lacking for quite a few years.

[bdeutsch]

I was talking to a peer today who lives outside of London and we started talking about the current situation with the Big 3.

He drew comparisons to the circumstance that led to the decline and ultimate break-up of British Leyland; non-competitive manufacturing cost structure driven by strong unions that resisted real change, entrenched executives that felt the government owed them survival, etc.

At the end of the day, BL was broken up and the UK is now essentially a service based economy with historic British brands, Jaguar, Land Rover, etc., now owned by non-british companies. Unions are done too for the most part.

While it is perhaps not a 1:1 comparison with the current conditions facing the Big 3, it is close enough to wonder if we will be facing the same end game.

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by VRM

1. Were they naked?
2. Were they cute?

Ahh, that would be a NO! X 2

Dan

[Silverback51]

Originally Posted by Dan40

Ahh, that would be a NO! X 2

Dan

Were they stupid? That would be a YES X 3.

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by Wes Tausend

...

First of all, the American worker is all of us. There is no significant difference between UAW workers and any of the rest of us blue-collar workers. We are not bad guys. We work hard. The same fine people that work in America are the same people that brought home the Gold from the Chinese Olympics.

...

Actually, UAW workers earn $75 an hour in wages and benefits--almost triple the earnings of the average private sector worker. Detroit autoworkers have substantially more health, retirement, and paid time off benefits than most Americans. These benefits, and a JOBS bank that pays UAW workers nearly full wages to not work, have been a major force driving the Detroit automakers' current fiscal woes. Consequently, Congress should not force all Americans to pay for high wages and benefits for UAW workers.

The average private sector worker earned $25.36 an hour in 2006--$17.91 an hour in cash wages and $7.45 an hour in benefits such as pensions, paid time off, and health insurance.

The typical UAW worker at the Big Three earned between $71 and $76 an hour in 2006. This amount is triple the earnings of the typical worker in the private sector and $25 to $30 an hour more than American workers at Japanese auto plants. The average unionized worker at the Big Three earns over $130,000 a year in wages and benefits.

Most of the Big Three's UAW workers' compensation comes as benefits, not cash. Only 38 percent of the $75.81 an hour that Chrysler's UAW workers earned came as base wages. The rest came as benefits (though some of those benefits, such as overtime premiums and paid vacation days, are paid in cash). Health care costs are the most expensive benefit, accounting for over a quarter of total compensation.

Health care costs the Big Three so much because the UAW negotiated gold-plated health benefits that include medical, hospital, surgical, and prescription drug coverage. These benefits also cover durable medical equipment (e.g., hearing aids), dental benefits, and even Lasik eye surgery. For all this, GM workers and retirees must pay monthly premiums of $10 for an individual and $21 for families. As a result, UAW workers and retirees have some of the most comprehensive and least expensive health care in America.

These gold-plated health care benefits put the Big Three, and especially GM, at a competitive disadvantage. For example, GM has three times as many retirees as active workers, and health care costs for both groups cost the company $4.6 billion in 2007. The UAW's lavish health benefits added $1,200 to the cost of each vehicle produced in the United States.

The Japanese automakers, by contrast, provide standard health benefits to their American employees. Consequently, health care for active workers cost Toyota $215 per vehicle in 2006.

UAW employees also receive the following extraordinary provisions:

30-and-Out contracts. UAW employees work under a 30-and-Out contract that allows them to retire with generous pension benefits after 30 years on the job, irrespective of age.

Seven weeks' vacation. A Chrysler worker with 15 years' tenure was entitled to 34.5 paid holidays and vacation days in 2006--seven weeks in paid time off. This is three weeks more paid vacation than the average private sector worker with similar tenure.

Paid not to work. Under UAW contracts, workers whom the automakers let go when plants close are not laid off. Instead, after exhausting regular unemployment payments from the automakers and the government, they are transferred to a JOBS bank where they are paid nearly full wages to not work.

Same as the typical American worker? I don't think so......

[Tinker51]

Sorry to say but the best thing that can happen to the big three is Chapter 11 re-org. Nullify all contracts and renegotiate with realistic compensation and benefits. The UAW needs to accept the fact that they can either work for less or not work. Those are the two choices. Unions need to go.

[Jamo]

Bravo to the Senate Republicans. Complete and utter kool-aide intoxicated BS to cry for the UAW...

Have any of you apologists for the auto workers actually read their contract? I have...read every damn one of them for the past several decades when they are negotiated since they may set the tone for contracts throughout the country.

But they don't...know why? Because the UAW member is NOT the typical American worker. He or she is overpaid for few skills in performing work now involving robots...they are paid for what they used to do. They b!tch and moan every damn time management tries to make something more efficient, and they cry when workers from other mfgs consistently outperform them. They use political pressure to get their contract terms, rather than deserving them. Their leaders are overpaid, and they haven't won a significant organizing drive in the auto industry in 30 years.

The typical American worker works for small to medium size companies. They use their skills to achieve their gains in their career, rather than by simply hanging around long enough to get seniority. They wonder why their taxes should be used to help out the azzholes who supposedly have a union to protect them.

The "cuts" you brag about? Read the damn language!!! They installed a two-tiered system a couple of years ago wherein only new employees coming in are paid less in wages and benefits...the seniority folks actually got signing bonuses to sell out the newbies. Since they can't be laid off without receiving 80-90% of their pay, the seniority folks lose nothing whether they work or not, and the newbies haven't even come on line.

Do you people ever read?

Damn right they ought to commit to doing something NOW to keep THEIR jobs with our tax dollars being tied up to finance them. Why don't we use their pension plans as security?

Damn tired of opinions from biased liberals who have never read what they opine about. Completely and utterly incredible without any mitigating circumstances due from worthless emotional appeals. (Iraq?...geez Wes, you sound like an Illinois politician claiming moral right while grabbing the phone to sell America down the road. )

We may start moderating based on a BS scale. No worries...we're supposed to be politically correct enough to allow even those on the lower steps of evolutionary brain development speak their minds, with all favorable presumptions implied.

Rant in holding pattern.

[FST HSKR]

Jamo.


Chill out.

[Jamo]

Excuse me, but you obviously don't spend much time here and realize the give and take between folks in ongoing discussions, or at the very least...you have not engaged in the discussions.

So...coming on here without that background and telling me to chill out? Not well taken. I would suggest you chill out...for one full day.

Fair? Probably not...sue me.

[Dan40]

B3 bailout is not about money. It is not about the economy, It is not about keeping American auto mfgs. It is POLITICS pure, plain and simple. The UAW has millions of registered voters in its membership. That is the only thing the politicians are looking at. Take away that voting block and they wouldn't talk to the B3 for 30 seconds.

Occam's razor

Dan

[Jamo]

In the final analysis...well said.

Come on, Wes...bring it.

[SP01715]

Originally Posted by trularin

What is not known by many is that the UAW already agreed to cut pay by a large amount a few years ago.

Days of the $30.00 per hour line worker are gone. Even skilled trades have been hit.

I saw an interview with two workers a couple weeks ago and they said they were currently making 68k a year. They said this was a drop in pay from the early 90's because of overtime cuts, but 68K for a person that works on a line? That's crazy IMO. The UAW needs to give some things up or the American companies will never be able to compete.

[nevermind65]

Wow...I guess I'm different than everybody on here. I didn't buy a GM, Ford, or Chrysler for the last 20 years because they were mostly ugly P.O.S. with some serious quality issues and I didn't want some oversized SUV. It had nothing to do with some guy on the assembly line who really has no say in any of these matters and who is supposedly making too much money.

Here I though my reason was why the automakers were in such financial troubles.