DUI Insurance

[calcob]

Hi all, I have been in the process of building my MKII for the last 14 months and have approx. 400 hrs into it, with only a few weeks to go before completion. This is my dream car
About 5 months ago we were invited to a friends BBQ and my 4 year old daughter was severely bitten by a stray german shepard on her hand while she was playing in the front yard with the other kids.
The hospital was only about 1 mile away, so I got her in the car and called 911 to let them know I was on the way. A few minutes after we arrived a sheriff's dupty showed up to take a report. I had about 5 beers while at the BBQ and the deputy could smell it on my breath, after taking his report he took me outside for a sobriety test which I passed, but he wanted me to take a blood test while we were at the hospital, and I did not object...
Well my test came out at .09 and I was arrested.
My daughter ended up loosing her small finger, but could have lost 2 others if I had not gotten her there so quick, so I do not regret what I did. This is my first violation of any kind(not even a parking ticket) and I do not condone drinking at driving.
So now I have a DUI on my record and I cannot find an insurance company that will insure my cobra, does anybody have have any recomendations or know of an insurance company that would would insusre a person with a dui on their record..... any advise or input would be appreciated, I would hate to have sell it before I am even able to drive it

[madmaxx]

You should have hired a lawyer and you would have had it dismissed. The cop never saw you drive the car, never saw when you drink the beer. For all he knew you drank it after you got to the hosiptal to calm your nerves, it had been in your trunk. Did he even read you any rights before you answered questions. Good to see the POS has to find a "criminal" at the hosipital, should have asked him how many child molestors he locked up, gang members.

I digress, I know with state farm if you have their guaranteed renewel policy they never check your record unless you have a record. I would be most classic car insurance companies do not check either, but they do require proof of insurance on your other cars since your cobra cannot be your dailey driver.

[Ronbo]

Yep that's an old trick, the cops delay the blood test so it's as high as possible. Your BAL was probably a lot lower while you were actually driving. (not that it matters with a DUI)

I don't think you'll have much luck with the specialty ins. companies.

The DUI and DWI are intended to be different things, but they f**k you the same for either. By default they charge you with DUI so they don't have to prove your drunk or not.

[jetsbaby]

If the Officer or a witness can't put you behind the wheel then it is or was a total B.S. arrest. I am retired P.D.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by jetsbaby

If the Officer or a witness can't put you behind the wheel then it is or was a total B.S. arrest. I am retired P.D.

Zacctly, co-worker got stinking drunk one saturday morning and decided he wanted some fried chicken, so he drove the company car to drive-thru window of a chicken place and promptly passed out while waiting for his food, paramedics/cops were called, he was arrested and charged with DUI, went to court and won, no one there to testify he was the one that actually drove the car to the chicken joint!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!had he been found guilty, he would have lost his job, I guess that's why he fought it soo hard, and he won!!!!!!!!!!

On the insurance issue, check with your state insurance commission, they usually have a carrier for "high risk" drivers........

David

[LURK]

Originally Posted by calcob

Hi all, I have been in the process of building my MKII for the last 14 months and have approx. 400 hrs into it, with only a few weeks to go before completion. This is my dream car
About 5 months ago we were invited to a friends BBQ and my 4 year old daughter was severely bitten by a stray german shepard on her hand while she was playing in the front yard with the other kids.
The hospital was only about 1 mile away, so I got her in the car and called 911 to let them know I was on the way. A few minutes after we arrived a sheriff's dupty showed up to take a report. * *** **** ** ***** *** **** ****** * ***** *** **** *****, after taking his report he took me outside for a sobriety test which I passed, but he wanted me to take a blood test while we were at the hospital, and I did not object...
Well my test came out at .0* and I was ******.
My daughter ended up loosing her small finger, but could have lost 2 others if I had not gotten her there so quick, so I do not regret what I did. This is my first violation of any kind(not even a parking ticket) and I do not condone drinking at driving.
So now I have a *** on my record and I cannot find an insurance company that will insure my cobra, does anybody have have any recomendations or know of an insurance company that would would insusre a person with a *** on their record..... any advise or input would be appreciated, I would hate to have sell it before I am even able to drive it

You might want to edit this.... just a thought. You know.. leave a few details out- that kind of thing.

Tough break buddy. Hope it works out.

[patrickt]

Call your local bar association for the County/City where you ran in to this trouble and ask the receptionist for the lawyer referral service. When you call them, ask for the name of the most experienced criminal defense attorney who, preferably, started out his/her career in the District Attorney's office. Go see that attorney and hear what he/she thinks about approaching the DA to re-open your case in view of the necessity/safety of your child issue. It's a longshot, and it will require the consent of the prosecutor, so you want to find a defense attorney who has a really good relationship with the prosecutor's office. The girl who answers the phone at the lawyer referal service will know who that is. Be prepared to explain your situation to her and you might even try the old "If this happened to you when you were rushing your child to the hospital, who would you call?"

[LudicrousSpeed]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

You should have hired a lawyer and you would have had it dismissed. The cop never saw you drive the car, never saw when you drink the beer. For all he knew you drank it after you got to the hosiptal to calm your nerves, it had been in your trunk. Did he even read you any rights before you answered questions. Good to see the POS has to find a "criminal" at the hosipital, should have asked him how many child molestors he locked up, gang members.

I'm absolutely blown away by the responses to this post.

Explain to me why this Police Officer is a "POS" for doing his sworn duty???

My first fatal accident scene involved a dad who rolled his car off the freeway. His 4 year old daughter was standing in the back seat when they crashed. She was partially ejected as the vehicle rolled several times. I was the second person on scene (off duty Officer was the first). I found her in the grass a few hundred feet from the car, crushed from the waist up, breathing her last breaths. She died in my arms.
Her dad was drunk. He killed his little girl.
I still have dreams about her.

To Calcob: I'm sorry for your child's suffering. But were there not other licensed drivers at this gathering? We also have these things called Ambulances with highly trained Paramedics who can drive with lights/sirens and who are sober. You spun the wheel man, I'm glad the worst that came of it was a DUI for you. Learn from it & pass this experience on to all who will listen.

To all who threw the cop down, seriously, get bent. I've been to too many scenes where the drunk driver is cursing the Firemen/Paramedics who are trying to patch up his minor wounds while more Firemen are cutting whats left of the other family from their car.

To the retired cop who chimed in I'll say this: not sure what state you hail from, but in California we have a section in the Vehicle Code (40300.5 CVC- look it up) that allows a Police Officer to arrest for DUI even if he didnt see the person driving. You dont even have to be behind the wheel of a vehicle when you're contacted.

Wow, what a bunch of sheep. Dont worry tho, I'll be back on the job tomorrow keeping the wolf at bay.

[Ronbo]

LS, Your respose is understandable. As a police officer you see the worst things possible, except of course what a soldier sees. Some of the "sheep" you refer to are these people.

Many police officers take the easy route and enforce the letter of the law, the difficult part is retaining your humanity and compassion for a father with an injured child. Unfortunately, doctors and law enforcement personel provide the most examples of people who trade compassion for professionalism.

If it was good police work it would not be so easily tossed out in court. As to your sheepdog referance, many sheep are well aware of the sheepdog's job of leading them to slaughter. A good example is how Police consider everybody Civillians when in fact only Soldiers toss away their civil rights.

God forbid the officer merely reminded him of his error and instructed him to not drive until he's sobered up. Considering your average emergency room wait this shouldn't be a problem.

[SPF2245]

Ronbo,
Many agencies have removed the "verbal warning" for DUI, if you have probable cause to believe a guy has been driving while intoxicated...you must place the subject under arrest per policy. Is that to say that is what has occurred? Don't know. But I know that I've never recieved a days suspension for arresting someone, but sure have felt the pain of "cutting a guy a break". The other part of the problem stems from this, by Fed. stats a guy who has driven drunk once and been caught has driven impared upto 400 times before and not been caught. It's not that I'm saying Calcob is one of those making up the stats, but it's on my mind everytime I conduct field sobriety checks.

As for the civilian remark, look up the definition of "civilian" (Webster-one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting ) and you'll see why most officers refer to them as such, and it's not derogatory.

[pcoghlan]

This is a pretty difficult situation and not being a cop myself I wont try to make judgment one way or the other. I do think that it is a little too easy to take sides against the cop as the original post appeals to the parent in anyone here with kids. Totally understandable.

Believe me, I grew up in the UK and Ireland and when I hear people's opinions about Northern Ireland it makes me realize that they hear a small sound bite and form an instant, and usually wrong, opinion.

For my part I do feel very bad that CALCOB got a DUI. I do have to ask whether there was no one else that could have driven the car that night. If the answer is no, which would surprise me, then I feel REALLY bad for him. That said the cop, whether you agree or not with his actions, WAS doing his job.

I haven't seen what a cop typically sees but I suspect a few fatal crashes with bodies strewn on the road would change your thinking too.

Paul

[Ronbo]

Understandable, however there's a reason we have a "human bridge" between the black and white letter of the law and the grey area of everyday life.

Vending machine justice is a very real problem with these automated traffic systems and the like. Robot police, judges, and lawyers are probably in the future.

I am concerned about the reference to the terrible accident and wonder about the effect it has on judgement calls all officers have to make, wether policy or not. If I lost perspective with some of the stuff I've seen, I'd never get behind the wheel again. The current DUI laws are excessive and flat. It's also the largest source of police (and government) abuse of power.

As a Police officer I'm sure your aware you can charge someone with DUI if any alchohol is in their system.

[madmaxx]

Explain to me why this Police Officer is a "POS" for doing his sworn duty???

Make no doubt, It was CALCOB duty to adminster medical care to his daugheter ASAP (The dog would have also been executed shortly thereafter) regardless of his condition. Fuking cop shows up at the hospital, probably still had krispy kream on his shirt and penalizes him for it. I am sure when Calob saw his kid, adrelanin kicked him and he was the most sober person at the party.

Kalifornia is so far in left field I see 2 or 3 commercial a night begging people to come visit and live there. Taxes are so painfully high, along with everything else. Now their considering delaying state tax refunds. What a sucess story, maybe the govener of Mississippi and CA should switch for the worst state in the union.

I feel better now

[Fordzilla]

I'm a Sheep Dog (Former Police Officer & a Disabled Veteran) & I think this is what LS refers to when he says Sheepdog, Sheep & Wolves. It's a good read even if you think it's not relevant to this post.

ON SHEEP, WOLVES, AND SHEEPDOGS
By LTC(RET) Dave Grossman, RANGER, Ph.D.,author of "On Killing."

Honor never grows old, and honor rejoices the heart of age. It does so
because honor is, finally, about defending those noble and worthy
things that deserve defending, even if it comes at a high cost. In our time, that
may mean social disapproval, public scorn, hardship, persecution, or as always,
even death itself. The question remains: What is worth defending? What is worth
dying for? What is worth living for? - William J. Bennett - in a lecture to the
United States Naval Academy November 24, 1997

One Vietnam veteran, an old retired colonel, once said this to me:
"Most of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive
creatures who can only hurt one another by accident." This is true. Remember, the
murder rate is six per 100,000 per year, and the aggravated assault rate
is four per 1,000 per year. What this means is that the vast majority of Americans
are not inclined to hurt one another.

Some estimates say that two million Americans are victims of violent
crimes every year, a tragic, staggering number, perhaps an all-time record
rate of violent crime. But there are almost 300 million Americans, which
means that the odds of being a victim of violent crime is considerably less than one
in a hundred on any given year. Furthermore, since many violent crimes are
committed by repeat offenders, the actual number of violent citizens is considerably
less than two million.

Thus there is a paradox, and we must grasp both ends of the situation:
We may well be in the most violent times in history, but violence is still
remarkably rare. This is because most citizens are kind, decent people
who are not capable of hurting each other, except by accident or under extreme
provocation. They are sheep.

I mean nothing negative by calling them sheep. To me it is like the
pretty, blue robin's egg. Inside it is soft and gooey but someday it will grow
into something wonderful. But the egg cannot survive without its hard blue
shell. Police officers, soldiers, and other warriors are like that shell, and
someday the civilization they protect will grow into something wonderful.? For
now, though, they need warriors to protect them from the predators.

"Then there are the wolves," the old war veteran said, "and the wolves
feed on the sheep without mercy." Do you believe there are wolves out there
who will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil
men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget
that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in
denial.

"Then there are sheepdogs," he went on, "and I'm a sheepdog. I live to
protect the flock and confront the wolf."

If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive
citizen, a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy
for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath, a wolf. But
what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow
citizens?
What do you have then? A sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking
the hero's path. Someone who can walk into the heart of darkness, into the
universal human phobia, and walk out unscathed

Let me expand on this old soldier's excellent model of the sheep,
wolves, and sheepdogs. We know that the sheep live in denial, that is what makes
them sheep. They do not want to believe that there is evil in the
world. They can accept the fact that fires can happen, which is why they want fire
extinguishers, fire sprinklers, fire alarms and fire exits throughout their kids'
schools.

But many of them are outraged at the idea of putting an armed police
officer in their kid's school. Our children are thousands of times more likely
to be killed or seriously injured by school violence than fire, but the
sheep's only response to the possibility of violence is denial. The idea of someone
coming to kill or harm their child is just too hard, and so they chose the
path of denial.

The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the
wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is
that the sheepdog must not, can not and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheep
dog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished
and removed.
The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative
democracy or a republic such as ours.

Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that
there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn't tell them
where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our
airports in camouflage fatigues holding an M-16. The sheep would much
rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, "Baa."

Until the wolf shows up. Then the entire flock tries desperately to
hide behind one lonely sheepdog.

The students, the victims, at Columbine High School were big, tough
high school students, and under ordinary circumstances they would not
have had the time of day for a police officer. They were not bad kids; they just had
nothing to say to a cop. When the school was under attack, however, and SWAT
teams were clearing the rooms and hallways, the officers had to physically peel
those clinging, sobbing kids off of them. This is how the little lambs
feel about their sheepdog when the wolf is at the door.

Look at what happened after September 11, 2001 when the wolf pounded
hard on the door. Remember how America, more than ever before, felt
differently about their law enforcement officers and military personnel? Remember how
many times you heard the word hero?

Understand that there is nothing morally superior about being a
sheepdog; it is just what you choose to be. Also understand that a sheepdog is a
funny critter: He is always sniffing around out on the perimeter, checking the
breeze, barking at things that go bump in the night, and yearning for a
righteous battle. That is, the young sheepdogs yearn for a righteous
battle. The old sheepdogs are a little older and wiser, but they move
to the sound of the guns when needed right along with the young ones.

Here is how the sheep and the sheepdog think differently. The sheep
pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day. After
the attacks on September 11, 2001, most of the sheep, that is, most citizens in America
said, "Thank God I wasn't on one of those planes." The sheepdogs, the warriors, said,
"Dear God, I wish I could have been on one of those planes. Maybe I
could have made a difference." When you are truly transformed into a
warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there.
You want to be able to make a difference.

There is nothing morally superior about the sheepdog, the warrior, but
he does have one real advantage. Only one. And that is that he is able
to survive and thrive in an environment that destroys 98 percent of the
population.
There was research conducted a few years ago with individuals
convicted of violent crimes. These cons were in prison for serious,
predatory crimes of violence: assaults, murders and killing law enforcement officers. The vast
majority said that they specifically targeted victims by body language: slumped
walk, passive behavior and lack of awareness. They chose their victims like
big cats do in Africa, when they select one out of the herd that is least able
to protect itself.

Some people may be destined to be sheep and others might be
genetically primed to be wolves or sheepdogs. But I believe that most
people can choose which one they want to be, and I'm proud to say that more and more Americans
are choosing to become sheepdogs.

Seven months after the attack on September 11, 2001, Todd Beamer was
honored in his hometown of Cranbury, New Jersey. Todd, as you recall, was the
man on Flight 93 over Pennsylvania who called on his cell phone to alert an
operator from United Airlines about the hijacking. When he learned of the other
three passenger planes that had been used as weapons, Todd dropped his phone
and uttered the words, "Let's roll," which authorities believe was a signal to
the other passengers to confront the terrorist hijackers. In one hour, a
transformation occurred among the passengers - athletes, business
people and parents. -- from sheep to sheepdogs and together they fought the wolves,
ultimately saving an unknown number of lives on the ground.

There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible
evil of evil men. - Edmund Burke

Here is the point I like to emphasize, especially to the thousands of
police officers and soldiers I speak to each year. In nature the sheep, real
sheep, are born as sheep. Sheepdogs are born that way, and so are wolves.
They didn't have a choice. But you are not a critter. As a human being, you can be
whatever you want to be. It is a conscious, moral decision.

If you want to be a sheep, then you can be a sheep and that is okay,
but you must understand the price you pay. When the wolf comes, you and your
loved ones are going to die if there is not a sheepdog there to protect you. If
you want to be a wolf, you can be one, but the sheepdogs are going to hunt
you down and you will never have rest, safety, trust or love. But if you want
to be a sheepdog and walk the warrior's path, then you must make a conscious
and moral decision every day to dedicate, equip and prepare yourself to thrive
in that toxic, corrosive moment when the wolf comes knocking at the door.

For example, many officers carry their weapons in church.? They are
well concealed in ankle holsters, shoulder holsters or inside-the-belt
holsters tucked into the small of their backs.? Anytime you go to some form of
religious service, there is a very good chance that a police officer
in your congregation is carrying. You will never know if there is such an individual in your
place of worship, until the wolf appears to massacre you and your loved ones.

I was training a group of police officers in Texas, and during the
break, one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other
cop replied, "I will never be caught without my gun in church." I
asked why he felt so strongly about this, and he told me about a cop he knew who was at
a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas in 1999. In that incident, a mentally
deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning down fourteen
people. He said that officer believed he could have saved every life that day
if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot, and all he could do
was throw himself on the boy's body and wait to die. That cop looked me in the
eye and said, "Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself
after that?"

Some individuals would be horrified if they knew this police officer
was carrying a weapon in church. They might call him paranoid and
would probably scorn him. Yet these same individuals would be enraged and would call for
"heads to roll" if they found out that the airbags in their cars were defective,
or that the fire extinguisher and fire sprinklers in their kids'
school did not work. They can accept the fact that fires and traffic accidents can
happen and that there must be safeguards against them.

Their only response to the wolf, though, is denial, and all too often
their response to the sheepdog is scorn and disdain. But the sheepdog
quietly asks himself, "Do you have and idea how hard it would be to live with
yourself if your loved ones attacked and killed, and you had to stand there
helplessly because you were unprepared for that day?"

It is denial that turns people into sheep. Sheep are psychologically
destroyed by combat because their only defense is denial, which is
counterproductive and destructive, resulting in fear, helplessness and
horror when the wolf shows up.

Denial kills you twice. It kills you once, at your moment of truth
when you are not physically prepared: you didn't bring your gun, you didn't
train. Your only defense was wishful thinking. Hope is not a strategy.
Denial kills you a second time because even if you do physically survive, you
are psychologically shattered by your fear helplessness and horror at
your moment of truth.

Gavin de Becker puts it like this in Fear Less, his superb post-9/11
book, which should be required reading for anyone trying to come to
terms with our current world situation: "...denial can be seductive, but it has an
insidious side effect. For all the peace of mind deniers think they get by saying it
isn't so, the fall they take when faced with new violence is all the more
unsettling."

Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme, a contract written entirely in
small print, for in the long run, the denying person knows the truth on some
level.

And so the warrior must strive to confront denial in all aspects of
his life, and prepare himself for the day when evil comes.

If you are warrior who is legally authorized to carry a weapon and you
step outside without that weapon, then you become a sheep, pretending that
the bad man will not come today. No one can be "on" 24/7, for a lifetime.
Everyone needs down time. But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you
walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to
yourself...
"Baa."

This business of being a sheep or a sheep dog is not a yes-no
dichotomy. It is not an all-or-nothing, either-or choice. It is a matter of degrees,
a continuum. On one end is an abject, head-in-the-sand-sheep and on
the other end is the ultimate warrior. Few people exist completely on one end or the
other.
Most of us live somewhere in between. Since 9-11 almost everyone in America
took a step up that continuum, away from denial. The sheep took a few steps
toward accepting and appreciating their warriors, and the warriors started
taking their job more seriously. The degree to which you move up that
continuum, away from sheephood and denial, is the degree to which you and your loved
ones will survive, physically and psychologically at your moment of truth.

[patrickt]

Mick, interesting read. FWIW, I've always been treated quite professionally by our police. I would go out on a limb and say our state troopers are a cut above the County police, but that's just my perception. A state trooper did pull me over in the Cobra last Fall "just to check my license and registration." Mostly, he walked around it, eyeballing, saying "this is really a nice car." No tickets, but we did share a laugh when I told him that if he ever saw anyone but me driving this car to pull them over immediatly.

[RedBarchetta]

Originally Posted by LudicrousSpeed

To Calcob: I'm sorry for your child's suffering. But were there not other licensed drivers at this gathering? We also have these things called Ambulances with highly trained Paramedics who can drive with lights/sirens and who are sober. You spun the wheel man, I'm glad the worst that came of it was a DUI for you. Learn from it & pass this experience on to all who will listen.

Well said. It's all about "accountability", something many in this country seem to forget about.

[SPF2245]

Ronbo, I agree that there is some lost love between the public and law enforcement due to more restrictions on using the spirit vs letter of the law. But on the same note, people were also tired of hearing about some people getting breaks while others did not (and I can't say I blame them if they drew the short straw). As for impacts of seeing the results of crimes effecting my decisions, I guess telling people their loved ones had been killed as a result of a OWI driver...those do/did make me a little less forgiving.

Regardless, in America as compared to say...Germany, our OWI laws are weak. And even under the recommendation of prosecutors, MADD and law enforcement, many felony cases are still reduced to misdemeanors. And in the last decade the amount of paperwork for a DUI arrest has turned what used to be a simple one hour arrest/report into a three hour hell...for a simple misdemeanor. I've had friends and family arrested for OWI and I don't have much simpathy only because the laws are clear and there is always other options...too often it's that little bit of imparement which stops us from looking at the big picture and all our options.

Regarding arresting anyone for any alcohol in their system, that is true and false. It's the imparement I have to prove. The Per Se laws cover numerical values (below the number, your ok), the rest of the OWI laws cover straight driving while impared (which means I don't have to assign a number just prove driving while impared).
Just a thought.

[pcoghlan]

Lets put it this way. Supposing a driver, bringing his injured child to a hospital and doing his parental duty as it has been put, mows down and kills 5 people due to his alcohol intake. The whole story then changes doesn't it....

Back to the original post. Do I think he was wrong to do it? No.

Would I have done it, yes, quite probably.

Should he have to accept the consequences, yes.

Final thought. I am not trying to get anyone angry but think about this. I find it very interesting that soldiers are considered by some to be heroes and cops a "POS". The key difference? Possibly the fact that soldiers 'do it' to THEM and cops to US. Oh, and I know a few cops, back in the UK and here in the US. None of them wears shirts covered in Krispy Kremes.

Paul

[Got the Bug]

This thread should be moved to the Lounge.....

[decapello]

I wander what would have happened at the hospital had Calcob been an off duty cop.