"obama has done Many Great Things"

[fsstnotch]

Originally Posted by 427sharpe

I guess Dad doesn't count anymore...

That is the way things are nowdays. Like they used ot tell us in high school.... the safest sex is no sex! I have personally been in the situation with my ex-fiance. She just wouldn't see my side. I was fully against it, we had no reason to abort... we had every means to take care of the child, and she was fully for it. Notice I said ex....

As far as abortions go... for the most part I am against it. An abortion should not be your failsafe birth control. However, in some cases, i think it is acceptable, ie if a father rapes his daughter and she becomes pregnant... not only is that just screwed up but that child will undoubtable be scarred for life. Any rape cases really.

[392cobra]

Originally Posted by fsstnotch

he has GREATLY increased the deficit... does that count?

Maybe a good tasering would awaken dormant brain cells of said idiot (Huggy Bear).

[427sharpe]

Not Huggy Bear...Erckel (sp?) from previous photo!
And all you bigots and close minded right wing fascists should get off this abortion thing! Anything you say to limit a womans freedom to murder her own child is a sign of your caveman-like attitude and sexist tendencies to objectivize women. And of course, you MUST be made to PAY for the clinical homicide as a sign of your enlightenment. All in the name of progress.

[BeanCounter]

Steve,

I guess it's time to argue with you again. My granddaughter was born at 21 weeks gestation and weighed 15 ounces when she was 3 days old. Now tell me, would you be willing to back that 6 months up to say 21 weeks? I have living proof in my 11 year granddaughter that each and every one after 21 weeks is murder. And I imagine that as medicine progresses that term will grow shorter and shorter. I've got a better idea about unwanted pregnancies. Kill the mother and adopt the child out. That way you get the guilty party and the recidivism rate would be 0%. And I'd bet the first time rate would go down drastically.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by BeanCounter

Steve,

I guess it's time to argue with you again. My granddaughter was born at 21 weeks gestation and weighed 15 ounces when she was 3 days old. Now tell me, would you be willing to back that 6 months up to say 21 weeks? I have living proof in my 11 year granddaughter that each and every one after 21 weeks is murder. And I imagine that as medicine progresses that term will grow shorter and shorter. I've got a better idea about unwanted pregnancies. Kill the mother and adopt the child out. That way you get the guilty party and the recidivism rate would be 0%. And I'd bet the first time rate would go down drastically.

Bernie,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I somehow missed this post and wondered if anything had happened on this thread after the recent murder of the abortion doc.

Anyway - We are capable of growing people in Petri dishes now. However, at what point do we decide that a blob of cells is a human? Does simply having human DNA count as being human? Would exfoliating or wanking be considered manslaughter?

Jews do not consider that blob of cells a person until birth, though they do consider that an unborn fetus has value as potentially being human.

If I were you I would go win the battle you can win right now. Roughly 85-90% of Americans are against abortions in the third trimester unless the mothers health is threatened.

Oh, and in Bernie and Steves dictatorship your solution might work - I would kill the father as well.

Steve

[427sharpe]

Actually, Beancounter has hit upon a novel solution! After all, it's TIME FOR CHANGE! , right? Here is a good candidate for the first spot:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...092daddy1.html

[Buzz]

Kill the mother. Stone them to death. Cut their nuts off... Sounds to me like you guys are really crying out for Sharia Law. Seems y'all have a lot more in common with the Muslim extremists than you care to admit.

[BeanCounter]

Steve,

What I held that first night was more than just a "blob of cells".

[95CobraR]

Originally Posted by VRM

Anyway - We are capable of growing people in Petri dishes now.

We can not grow a human child in a petri dish.

Bernie says that at exactly 21 weeks (147 days); the fetus becomes a human being. I disagree since the heart starts beating in 8 weeks after fertilization. The hands, feet, head, brain, and other organs are present.

The most spectacular changes of human embryology occur in this first two months during which the developing baby acquires its main organs and just begins to be recognizable as human.

I am against abortion at any time after fertilization as it concerns my family.

[BeanCounter]

I think you've mischaracterized what I said. I never said at exactly 147 days it becomes a human. Being Roman Catholic I believe that it's far earlier than that, when I don't know but I'm not putting my personal beliefs off on someone else. What I am saying is that a child is viable outside the womb at 21 weeks and that is prima facie evidence that a human being is being killed.

[95CobraR]

Originally Posted by BeanCounter

I think you've mischaracterized what I said.

Sorry, I did misunderstand your post.

[cobra bill]

If you are basing everything on ancient religions, then it's all a moot point, they would have never survived outside the womb, well at least not earlier then 7 month and even then it would have been seen as a miracle. No one wants, or is for abortion, but to force ones religious beliefs on everyone is the same as the Taliban, there's no difference. give them an alternative that works for them, not forced incubation.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by BeanCounter

Steve,

What I held that first night was more than just a "blob of cells".

Bernie,
I'm happy for you and her that she survived, and I hope she is doing well. I'm sure she is well cared for and is with a great family.

I would like to eliminate abortion, but making it against the law will not do that, and it will also cause other problems.

I still think that pro-lifers should take the easy win and propose outlawing third trimester abortions with an exception for rape and the health of the mother.

We can also educate kids and explain birth control a bit better. I hate to say it, but I'm sure your granddaughter knows more about sex than you even want to think about. And this is part of the problem (I'm speaking in general terms - I have no idea how you and yours are with sex ed). Americans tend to bury their heads in the sand about certian things. Western Europe has an abortion rate that is about half of ours, and Eastern Europes rate dropped 50% in 10 years just by making contraception more readily available (though it is still pretty high).

So pro-lifers can probably eliminate about 50% of the abortions in this country with some education and contraception - but it seems that they just do not want to.

Steve

[95CobraR]

Originally Posted by cobra bill

No one wants, or is for abortion...

The National Abortion Federation is for abortion. They proudly state:

One in three American women will have an abortion by age 45. Abortion is one of the safest medical procedures provided in the United States and Canada today.

http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/index.html

I didn't know that an abortion is as safe as removing a mole or sun spot from my skin?

Providing abortions is also a very profitable business for doctors, nurses, drug companies, medical device manufacturers, clinics, and also pays the salaries of the people who work for organizations that promote abortions. You could say that it is good for the economy and provides jobs to Americans.

Originally Posted by cobra bill

...but to force ones religious beliefs on everyone is the same as the Taliban, there's no difference.

Not everyone forces their religious beliefs on others (it's just an opinion). I am against abortion for personal moralistic reasons. I just feel that killing the life of a human fetus that has a heart that is beating is not right. BTW, I am a Methodist. I have no idea what they think of abortion, but I have heard that the fancy new building program is important to our very survival.

[VRM]

Right CobraR - there is a lot of money involved in abortion.

There are also 16 or 17 states that will fund abortions for low income people. So is it better for our tax dollars to pay for the abortion or to pay for kids on welfare?

Steve