Now they want your knives.......

[VRM]

Originally Posted by turnpike boy

Hmmm....maybe, just maybe.... his new boss decided for him that it was time for him to re-evaluate a protocol that had been sitting for 6 years (+), unresolved, as far as the new boss was concerned.

Nah. This new administration wouldn't do that. Pshaw. Must be another Republican flunky, posturing to show he's still relevant......

Hmmm, maybe you should just go read the thing for yourself.
http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/.../43genno21.pdf

Start reading around page 5. It gets good and technical around page 25.

[Ron61]

Originally Posted by SP01715

Section 12020 of the California Penal Code covers weapons. It is a long section, but if you read through it you can get a pretty good idea of what is legal to own and carry. I will stick with my Glock .40

Paul,

You are correct about it being a long read and somewhat repetitious in some instances. Like you, I will stick with my 9MM and other guns as I haven't carried a pocket knife since I was in the boy scouts. Thanks for the section number. I am physically unable to hike through the canyons any more, but when I was able to I carried a hunting knife on a belt and had no problems with any LEO that I met. Same for the guns.

Ron

[turnpike boy]

Originally Posted by VRM

Hmmm, maybe you should just go read the thing for yourself.
http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/.../43genno21.pdf

Start reading around page 5. It gets good and technical around page 25.

Hhmmm....you're right, and I was wrong.

The protocol had been around since 1971, when 15 CFR was implemented -after being adopted in 1958.

That's, what? - 38 years (adopted) ? I guess I was way off . And, of course, ol' Mr. McCray saw nothing wrong with some submitted knives in August of 2008 - when he was just another Republican flunky under GW Bush - and permitted their entry and sale. Just as several of his predecessors had done, as early as 2004. Bush administration, tho.

But in April 2009 - now under the GodSent Administration - he suddenly sees the light and error of his ways, and sends God's Own lightning out and rescinds not only his own prior judgment, but those of his predecessors as far back as 2004.

Which - of course - was the George Bush era.

Hhmm. Maybe I shouldn't have read it closer. Then again, maybe you should have, too.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by turnpike boy

Hhmmm....you're right, and I was wrong.

The protocol had been around since 1971, when 15 CFR was implemented -after being adopted in 1958.

That's, what? - 38 years (adopted) ? I guess I was way off . And, of course, ol' Mr. McCray saw nothing wrong with some submitted knives in August of 2008 - when he was just another Republican flunky under GW Bush - and permitted their entry and sale. Just as several of his predecessors had done, as early as 2004. Bush administration, tho.

But in April 2009 - now under the GodSent Administration - he suddenly sees the light and error of his ways, and sends God's Own lightning out and rescinds not only his own prior judgment, but those of his predecessors as far back as 2004.

Which - of course - was the George Bush era.

Hhmm. Maybe I shouldn't have read it closer. Then again, maybe you should have, too.

TB,
Yep - I read it.

And I actually do not think that McCray is a flunky of either party - that was sarcasm (and thus the smiley). He is a bureaucrat - his own political views are not known.

Yes they reversed their previous decisions - but did you read the technical description of why? They applied a plain English definition to the law as written (and even listed what those definitions were). Did you read the description of the Van Hoy? They call them 'spring assist' - from an engineering point of view I don't see much that differentiates them from a switchblade. It carries stored energy in order to open the blade when a mechanism is triggered.

Perhaps the Obama administration does not like these knives, however, they are enforcing the law as it is written, and they state their rationale for doing so. That is their job. Perhaps that job was not a priority under previous administrations, or perhaps McCray is an 'activist' and wanted these knives available. We simply do not have enough info to make that determination. However, if you read page 32 you will see that a number of similar knives were prohibited with dates ranging from 2000 to 2008 indicating that people in the Bush and Clinton administrations were also busy banning the import of knives.

As much as I dislike this specific law (it's like banning all naked women because a kid might accidentally see one, or the rationale used by many that want to ban guns), it is still the law and the executive branch is obligated to follow and enforce it to the best of their ability, regardless of whether they agree with it or not.

You are welcome to challenge the findings - you have 10 days left to comment. I do not see a way past the technical issues, but perhaps you can come up with something.

You are also welcome to try and change/eliminate the law, and you would have my support on that. That bill was written by a DNC Congress and signed into law by a GOP president who I happen to have a great deal of respect and admiration for, but who I do not view as infallible.

But lets keep blaming Obama. Oh, and the stock market might go up or down tomorrow as well - I bet that is his fault too.

Steve

[427sharpe]

Second, the Feds do not have the power to ban a product - they can only limit the interstate sale of that product using the commerce clause.

A ban by any other name.....
By using the incredibly hyper-extended commerce clause, the federal government has gotten into areas completely out of their jurisdiction; including this one. As Ron commented earlier, the fact of knife regulations being entertained by the federal government is ludicrous. In actuality, the issue is and should be an import issue only. The remainder should fall into states rights as per the constitution:
Article one, section 8:
To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes [emphasis added]
And, of course, the 10th Amendment:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
And there lies the rub...it's NOT the federal governments business to establish ANY state policy!

[VRM]

Originally Posted by FWB

should i send you links to some of your posts where you are a fan of obama.

Hey Meier,
Times up. Find anything?

I saw your activity on some of the old threads yesterday afternoon.

I'm betting you are not man enough to admit that your searching turned up nothing, so as far as I am concerned your name is now Meier.

And just so you know - Hermann Goering once told the Germans that if Germany was ever bombed in WW2 that they could call him 'Meier'. Well, they did. Congrats - you are in good company...

Steve

[VRM]

Originally Posted by 427sharpe

Second, the Feds do not have the power to ban a product - they can only limit the interstate sale of that product using the commerce clause.

A ban by any other name.....
By using the incredibly hyper-extended commerce clause, the federal government has gotten into areas completely out of their jurisdiction; including this one. As Ron commented earlier, the fact of knife regulations being entertained by the federal government is ludicrous. In actuality, the issue is and should be an import issue only. The remainder should fall into states rights as per the constitution:
Article one, section 8:
To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes [emphasis added]
And, of course, the 10th Amendment:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
And there lies the rub...it's NOT the federal governments business to establish ANY state policy!

I agree 110%!

[Alex Donghi]

I know in NY you can't have an self opening knife. But in GA you can get anything openly love GA but they did mess up the kit car business

[turnpike boy]

VRM, in alignment with your tacit observations, I don't believe Obama is blameless; the policies he cleaves to are well-known and - by extension - handed down to those who work for him. Does this include Mr. McCray? We can deflect all we want, but coincidence frequently has its' basis in fact.

That the federal code began with Eisenhower and gained enforcement with Reagan is noted - that there appears to have been some regulatory slippage under the Bush regime is also. Enforcing essentially pointless laws shouldn't be observed as an acme of competency; on the contrary, eliminating them should. And Lord knows our government doesn't arbitrarily apply the laws on the books . That a useless law - as this one plainly is - got ignored for several years could be observed as pragmatic - but then, it could also be observed as slipshod and careless. All depends on your perspective of what's important, which is pretty interesting as it relates to Mr. Obama.

Nope - not gonna try to change the law; besides, there's plenty of time past those 10 days to make that change. In regard to the technical issues, surely there must not be a way past them, as you so cunningly observe .

However, the market......ahh, who knows.



-Roger

[392cobra]

Originally Posted by Roscoe

I carry a Benchmade automatic knife.

If you read the article you would find that the previous personnel that made decisions on this were replaced by bureaucrats who know nothing about knives. I believe, as the article does, this will restrict knives that have the thumb stud. Here is the knife in question. Buy one now!!

https://www.bladehq.com/item--CRKT-Van-Hoy-OnFire--1947

Roscoe

UPDATE!

Roscoe just ordered one......

Roscoe

Good news !!

NRA-ILA GRASSROOTS ALERT
Vol. 16, No. 42 10/23/09
Congress Passes NRA-Backed Legislation
Protecting Pocketknife Classification


Back in June, we reported on a proposed U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) rule change that would have expanded the Switchblade Knife Act of 1958 to include spring-assisted or one-handed-opening knives, and would have directly targeted the importation of "assisted opening" folding knives. (Read the proposed rule here.) Assisted opening knives are frequently used by hunters, anglers, farmers, ranchers, firefighters, law enforcement and emergency personnel and anyone else who may need to open a knife with only one hand.

The proposed regulations would have designated all such knives as "switchblades" -- despite the fact they do not fall under the federal definition of "switchblades" -- and would have made them illegal for import into the United States.

Fortunately, in July, the U.S. Senate unanimously passed an amendment to the Federal Switchblade Act as part of the Homeland Security Appropriations Act of 2010. This NRA-supported amendment then headed to a House-Senate conference committee.

Last week, the U.S. House passed the amendment. We are happy to report that this week, the U. S. Senate passed the measure as well.

[Excaliber]

Other than being a cool toy I can't figure out why you would need such a knife? I carried a classic folding knife for years. I'm drawing a blank trying to think of a single time I actually needed to...

...instantly spring the blade fully open after you have used the knurled thumb stud to open the blade approximately 30 degrees.

[Roscoe]

Well, I got mine and use it every day. Very convenient....but that ain't the point is it?

Roscoe

[BeanCounter]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Other than being a cool toy I can't figure out why you would need such a knife? I carried a classic folding knife for years. I'm drawing a blank trying to think of a single time I actually needed to...

My brother lost his right arm in a motorcycle accident when he was 17. Have you ever tried to open a knife with your teeth? Try it 25 times and report back to me.

[Excaliber]

Valid point Bernie!

[Ron61]

Ernie would eat the knife if he tried that. I really think this law got all messed u in the writing and was primarly aimed at keeping long bladed switch blade knives out of the hands of kids. Of course the bad guys can still get them easily. I now carry my gun and sword in the car. Nothing hidden about the sword and it will easily outreach one of the dopers with a 10" blade.

Ron

[Excaliber]

Shortly after I discovered how neat wire strippers were I hardly ever used my knife again.

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Shortly after I discovered how neat wire strippers were I hardly ever used my knife again.

As a young computer engineer, I had my teeth notched for 26, 28 and 30 AWG.

[Ron61]

Yea, they sure work a lot better don't they. No nicks that will cause the wire to break at the first bend. I must have a half dozen different types left over from my days working and they get a lot of work.

Hey Ernie, when you get your Cobra over here are you going to bring it out and let me see it?

Ron

[SP01715]

Originally Posted by Ron61

Ernie would eat the knife if he tried that. I really think this law got all messed u in the writing and was primarly aimed at keeping long bladed switch blade knives out of the hands of kids. Of course the bad guys can still get them easily. I now carry my gun and sword in the car. Nothing hidden about the sword and it will easily outreach one of the dopers with a 10" blade.

Ron

Your better off with just the gun. Carrying a sword in California in your car for protection is a felony. Besides a gun has even more stand off capability.

[Ron61]

Normally true but it you have special permit to have one in the car then it is ok. I don't take any of them often unless I am going to show them to another collector. The gun is my main tool of protection and with the dope going out of control around here it is getting to be almost a necessity to carry one if you are going to walk down any street. And has ammo gone out of sight. I just returned from the range and the high velocity personal protection 147 grain is now $35 for a 25 round box.

I wouldn't be any good with a sword in a fight any way as I never trained with them.

Ron