I Now Know Why GM is Going Bankrupt

[patrickt]

I just spent the afternoon replacing my "Multifunction Switch" on my GM car. How did I learn my MF Switch was bad? A friend told me my brake lights were out, but not the brake light in the rear window -- there is no sign off this problem inside the car. A moronic design. I have all the factory service manuals for the car and nowhere in the diagnostic tree does it ever mention the MF switch -- you have to find it on the internet. These are the three volume set bigger than the Manhattan Yellow Pages, but nowhere do they mention the MF switch causing the rear brake lights to fail. Sooooo, I stop off this week at the dealer to pick up a MF switch. I tell the parts guy what I want and he pulls it up on his computer and says "Holy Cow, you might want to try and find it on the internet since we want $525 for it." I thank him for his time and find it at RockAuto for $275. Same AC/Delco part in the box, but for $250 cheaper. Of course changing the switch out was a royal PITA. GM jams Torx screws in the steering column where you can't get to them without a special tool. No, I didn't buy the special tool, I used Torx bits and vise grips and the like to do it. And of course the damn ribbon cables run up under the dash where you can't see what you have to undo to plug it all back in -- it goes together like a computer ribbon cable in the motherboard, but you have to take this big square plug thingy apart to even figure out how to plug it all in together. Whoever engineered every single light to go through one monster switch in the steering column should be shot. Took me three hours, with breaks. I suppose a competent mechanic with the special tools could have probably done it in half that. GM basically sucks. I bet if I had dropped the car off at the dealer and said "My brake lights are out, will you fix it?" that bill would have come back around $1,000.

[FWB]

so you now can say "you've got that great GM feeling, with genuine GM parts"

[cobra de capell]

My brake lights went out on a Buick - around $750 to get it fixed - 1/2 parts.

It's almost like they put cars together to make big money after warranty is gone.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

My brake lights went out on a Buick - around $750 to get it fixed - 1/2 parts.

It's almost like they put cars together to make big money after warranty is gone.

You know if they had just made the wires (like 50 of them) disconnect at the switch in addition to disconnecting at the big plug thingy up under the dash, both the parts and labor cost would be cut in half. BTW, this is what a MF switch looks like if anyone is curious.

[FWB]

what does MF stand for? mother f***er

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by FWB

what does MF stand for? mother f***er

Its real name is the "MultiFunction Switch." It's what handles your turn signals, windwhield wipers, cruise control, hazard flashers, and two of your three brake lights meander through it as well.

[fsstnotch]

Patrick, what car was this on? I ask because My dad and my father in law both had the old s10 style Blazers a while back. One was a 94 and one was an 89. BOTH had the same problem! One would do nothing and one would flash the lights, run the wipers and everything on an intermittent setting and you couldn't shut it off. So it could be 100* and sunny and your wipers were on delay and the lights would flash at the same time the wipers would go.

One word... JUNK! lol

[Ron61]

Patrickt,

Remember these cars are assembled while they are apart and with no thought to what the person who has to work on them once they are all together. A switch like that which controls so many things should be mounted in a way that it is easy to get to. You know that at least one of the functions is going to fail after a lot of usage. I am becoming a bigger fan of having everything in the steering wheel. I know they cost a fortune, but at least you can get to them. Probably with $10K in special tools to do anything though.

Ron

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by fsstnotch

One would do nothing and one would flash the lights, run the wipers and everything on an intermittent setting and you couldn't shut it off. So it could be 100* and sunny and your wipers were on delay and the lights would flash at the same time the wipers would go.

That's classic MF switch symptoms. You can sometimes fix it by rapidly turning the hazard flasher button on and off. But my button was broken. Actually, the whole steering column is kind of like one of those kids puzzles. Just getting the plastic top and bottom of was a chore, and putting it back on last night took a half hour. Two pieces of plastic and four screws and it took me a half an hour to do it.

[Ronbo]

Another quality Delphi part no doubt...

[vector1]

3 hrs., 3 breaks, must be union

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by patrickt

You know if they had just made the wires (like 50 of them) disconnect at the switch in addition to disconnecting at the big plug thingy up under the dash, both the parts and labor cost would be cut in half. BTW, this is what a MF switch looks like if anyone is curious.

WOW, that's just about the same thing that the guy who fixed it for me stated - he was being fair relating to the labor part - it's just time consuming.

I wonder if GM ever considers the time it takes to fix this sort of thing as they plan the set-up of this sort of thing. As you noted, there are alternatives.

[joyridin']

I was just commenting to my GF last night that this switch is a pain in the rear. My Toyota has the Wiper switch on one side, and the turn signals on the other. Real nice at night when it is dark and you need to use them without seeing.

All those trips GM took to Toyota years ago and they still haven't figured it out.

[lovehamr]

I knew there were good reasons why I don't own any Government Motors vehicles.

Steve

[RICK LAKE]

patrickt You did it the hard way. Warranty time pays 1.2 hours, Chilton pays about 2.0. You did it without pulling the steering wheel?? That's a B!t$h to do. the worst thing is you are lucky and didn't break the horn pin. Garage mechanics break them about 50% of the time and the horn just keeps on blowing. There is a special socket, cost about $35.00 from Snap-on that makes this simple to do. Gald you fixed it and everything is working ok. Any time you want to give up sitting behind that deck and get some STEEL in your hand, GM is looking for a few good techs that are a little crazy.


By the way Delphi is not making parts in the US any more thanks to people who are tired of too many safety laws, unions, and people without PRIDE in there work. They closed the battery plant here in New Brunswick 3 years ago and put over 200 people out of work. You know thw worst part, the union guys got transfered to another plant, the workers got the shaft. They went out on strike about 6-7 years ago, playing hard ball with GM. When the contract was up in 3 years so was there jobs. Union worked well for them. IT's great to see all the jobs are going to Mexico, Tiawan, China, and Korea. The union is finished in the USA and time will show it in the future with more plants and places closing because of people following unions like sheep and not thinking for themselves. Yes I have worked for the union, and having a choice wouldn't want to work for another one. Find a good company, work hard, do the right things, not make waves, and you are set for life. I am back with a company that I worked for 4 years ago. The only reason I left was the $4.30 per gallon of gas, got a job 2.1 miles from the house and could ride the bicycle to work. At that time it was a good idea. Today only 3 dealerships I have worked for are still open, the rest are going bye-bye in the next 6 months. Again there will be a fight to have a job. 2 guys in my shop are on the way out the door and don't even know it. GM doesn't care about butt kissing any more, Game,Set and Closed doors. All the auto companies are going to have big changes over the next year. Rick L.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

patrickt You did it the hard way. Warranty time pays 1.2 hours, Chilton pays about 2.0. You did it without pulling the steering wheel?? That's a B!t$h to do. the worst thing is you are lucky and didn't break the horn pin. Garage mechanics break them about 50% of the time and the horn just keeps on blowing. There is a special socket, cost about $35.00 from Snap-on that makes this simple to do. Gald you fixed it and everything is working ok. Any time you want to give up sitting behind that desk and get some STEEL in your hand, GM is looking for a few good techs that are a little crazy.

Well it didn't occur to to me to check the horn. I just walked out and tapped it and it blew. Yes, I did it without pulling the steering wheel, and without messing with the air bag, and I wasn't even smart enough to be aware of the horn pin issue. And real men fix cars without the proper tools. Yes, I did it in less than twice the time it takes real mechanics to fix it... and I didn't even break the plastic covers that go around the steering column. I still can't figure out though why the dealer wanted $525 and RockAuto wanted $275.

[RICK LAKE]

patrickt Pat how do you think they pay for the building rent, lights heat, taxes, gas, office personal, and owners???? Wishes and DREAMS???? There is about a 1.35% mark up on all parts sold over the counter. It is higher in some states than others.

When Hollywood is looking for a new McGyver, you get my vote. Rick L.

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by joyridin'

I was just commenting to my GF last night that this switch is a pain in the rear. My Toyota has the Wiper switch on one side, and the turn signals on the other. Real nice at night when it is dark and you need to use them without seeing.

All those trips GM took to Toyota years ago and they still haven't figured it out.

Perhaps you have it installed in the wrong place???

[FWB]

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

patrickt Pat how do you think they pay for the building rent, lights heat, taxes, gas, office personal, and owners???? Wishes and DREAMS???? There is about a 1.35% mark up on all parts sold over the counter. It is higher in some states than others.

When Hollywood is looking for a new McGyver, you get my vote. Rick L.

rick i think your decimal point is in the wrong spot.hehehe.

its 135% ................1.35% is cost times .0135, at several ford dealers that i have worked at we usually took cost and doubled it for retail. this was not a written in stone thing either. if the guy that was an a-hole came you tripled it and giggled as he squawked and paid.

[Cobrabill]

[quote=patrickt; there is no sign off this problem inside the car. [/QUOTE]

My daily driver is a 1977 Datsun 810.It has a diagnostic system in the dash that tells me when any rear lights aren't functioning among 6 other functions that are monitored.

Screw GM in the heart.