Obama Wants to Let Those Pesky Geezers Die

cobra de capell · #1 (**permalink**) 06-25-2009, 01:22 PM

President Obama suggested at a town hall event Wednesday night that one way to shave medical costs is to stop expensive and ultimately futile procedures performed on people who are about to die and don't stand to gain from the extra care.

In a nationally televised event at the White House, Obama said families need better information so they don't unthinkingly approve "additional tests or additional drugs that the evidence shows is not necessarily going to improve care."

He added: "Maybe you're better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller."

http://spectator.org/blog/2009/06/25...et-those-pesky

So, if you are a geezer and possibly even a pesky geezer are you ready for Obama care? If yes, prepare to die sooner versus later - but, at least it will be pain free (until those meds are also eliminated).

Eliminating end of life care, I suppose, is cost-effective. Just doesn't seem like a fully human way to go.

joyridin' · #2 (**permalink**) 06-25-2009, 01:43 PM

Yep, and I agree 100%.

Take a medical ethics class full of nurses and you'll probably feel the same way.

FWB · #3 (**permalink**) 06-25-2009, 01:48 PM

first its the old, then will come the mental deficient, then another group, and yet another............when they came for your neighbor you said nothing....when they came for your friends you said nothing.....when they come for you there will be no one to stand with you to stop them....

it's deja-vue all over again.....
yogi berra

cobra de capell · #4 (**permalink**) 06-25-2009, 03:21 PM

Dan40 · #5 (**permalink**) 06-25-2009, 03:44 PM

Well a high percentage of liberals are younger and a high percentage of conservatives are older, Sooooo.................................

I did read or hear that 70% of a person's total life medical expenses are spent in the last 10 DAYS of their life.

So under obummer's new health care program, the good news, bad news scenario would go like this. "I have good news and bad news." "Gimmie the good news first Doc!" "The good news is, this is Day ONE.",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Bill Bess · #6 (**permalink**) 06-26-2009, 06:58 AM

Kind of sounds a little bit like the 1944 Final Solution.

Why not just set an age limit for medical payments, then go to straight pain killers and then ..........off to the ovens for disposal.
This would save a lot of money and create a bigger market for the natural gas industry along with getting rid of those old pesky conservatives.

Hey, good judgement and reasonable decision making is the best answer to these kinds of questions and situations.

Obama is dangerous in his thinking to suggest withholding medical aid to old folks.

Bill

cobra de capell · #7 (**permalink**) 06-26-2009, 09:45 AM

1ntCobra · #8 (**permalink**) 06-26-2009, 11:06 AM

My one grandfather worked in a machine shop until he was ninety some years old and became ill with some sort of blood cancer which the hospitals were not exactly sure what kind it was. He ended up moving between 2 hospitals and a nursing home for over six months. With the doctors basically asking my mom to do various treatments to keep him going. At some point he asked my mom why wasn't she letting him die? It was only after one of her friend's daughters who was a nurse kind of took my mom to the side and suggested to my mom to put him on the do not recessitate (sp?) list because they may end up breaking his ribs at some point bringing him back and then he will just be more miserable...

Looking back on it, it seems like the doctors, hospitals and nursing home had found a good revenue stream from Medicare and the state of PA in keeping my grandfather alive. My grandfather wanted to just leave the hospital and go back home to die. Maybe if he had not gone to the hospital in the first place, that could have happened. But I'm sure we thought whatever he had could be treated when he first got sick.

cobra bill · #9 (**permalink**) 06-26-2009, 11:30 AM

I've seen too many stories like that, when profit is the motivating factor, and the system prays of those that are grieving for their family members condition, it's all too easy to push outrageous treatments on them, It's like Terry Schivo, not sure of the spelling, but to keep her alive for 8 years when they knew she was brain dead was a disgrace!

cobra de capell · #10 (**permalink**) 06-26-2009, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

My one grandfather worked in a machine shop until he was ninety some years old and became ill with some sort of blood cancer which the hospitals were not exactly sure what kind it was. He ended up moving between 2 hospitals and a nursing home for over six months. With the doctors basically asking my mom to do various treatments to keep him going. At some point he asked my mom why wasn't she letting him die? It was only after one of her friend's daughters who was a nurse kind of took my mom to the side and suggested to my mom to put him on the do not recessitate (sp?) list because they may end up breaking his ribs at some point bringing him back and then he will just be more miserable...

Looking back on it, it seems like the doctors, hospitals and nursing home had found a good revenue stream from Medicare and the state of PA in keeping my grandfather alive. My grandfather wanted to just leave the hospital and go back home to die. Maybe if he had not gone to the hospital in the first place, that could have happened. But I'm sure we thought whatever he had could be treated when he first got sick.

So, at some early point - say when he's was simply having pain - just get him some Obama pain pills and let him 'go'? If this sort of thing happens, it will be primarily the poor that will be let go, early. Once that starts, why not earlier and earlier if the 'condition' results in expensive treatment?

By the way, don't listen to Cobra (space) Bill - no one tells him stories.

1ntCobra · #11 (**permalink**) 06-26-2009, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

So, at some early point - say when he's was simply having pain - just get him some Obama pain pills and let him 'go'? If this sort of thing happens, it will be primarily the poor that will be let go, early. Once that starts, why not earlier and earlier if the 'condition' results in expensive treatment?

By the way, don't listen to Cobra (space) Bill - no one tells him stories.

Well, at some point you could probably let yourself go, if you were old, tired, sick and stopped eating on your own. But if you are in a hospital and they basically keep you going on IVs and transfusing all of the blood in your body every once in a while and pounding on your chest every time your heart stops, well who knows how long they can keep you going.

One of my coworkers once said to me that his grandmother gave him power of attorney because she knew he would pay attention to her wishes and pull the plug when it was necessary. All of the other relatives would have probably not had the courage to let her go.

cobra de capell · #12 (**permalink**) 06-26-2009, 12:39 PM

Here's the deal, yes - having a medical power of attorney is great and deciding before the end that you don't want to be on life support, etc. is the way to go - but, having the federal government decide that it's time for you to go is a whole different issue.

The decision needs to stay will the doctors and patients, along with the family. And yes, money is a factor but it cannot be the overridding factor - if it is, part of our humanity will be lost forever.

As for me, I'm arranging for the quality of my life to be the deciding factor - I'm not going to end up being a vegetable and/or end up in a nursing home unable to care for myself - so, money will be saved but that's my decision.

1ntCobra · #13 (**permalink**) 06-26-2009, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

Here's the deal, yes - having a medical power of attorney is great and deciding before the end that you don't want to be on life support, etc. is the way to go - but, having the federal government decide that it's time for you to go is a whole different issue.

The decision needs to stay will the doctors and patients, along with the family. And yes, money is a factor but it cannot be the overridding factor - if it is, part of our humanity will be lost forever.

As for me, I'm arranging for the quality of my life to be the deciding factor - I'm not going to end up being a vegetable and/or end up in a nursing home unable to care for myself - so, money will be saved but that's my decision.

That makes sense.

On the other hand, my grandfather did not really plan too well. At some point he got his house in the name of my aunt, who is a bit crazy, never worked a day in her life and never got married. If that had not happened, the house would have gone to the state to pay for his medical bills. He did give power of attorney to my mom. But the government ended up footing his medical bills for all of those months. I'm sure the liberals will believe that was the way it should be. And somehow, my crazy aunt got on disability, not she ever worked and is getting money (but not enough) to pay her bills. So my mom (and the government) are paying for my crazy aunt. Luckily mom is a democrat and is glad the government is kicking in some cash...

cobra de capell · #14 (**permalink**) 06-26-2009, 03:47 PM

Well, planning is everything especially for the end of life. My younger brother passed on recently - way too early in life. Luckily, he had done some planning and the end was easy on him and the entire family.

Jamo · #15 (**permalink**) 06-26-2009, 05:57 PM

Sorry for your loss.

I'm of the same mind. Armenians live a long damn time if left to their own devices...doesn't mean it's a good long damn time.

I made a pact with a Turkish fellow to pull the plug, and I have promised to do the same for him. Course, everytime one of us sneezes, the other one's ready to hurry things along.

Gotta tell ya, though...I'm thinking Obama's not really wrong in his observation, and a tip of the hat to him for having the guts to say it. That being said, the last organization I want administering an HMO is the federal government.

Ron61 · #16 (**permalink**) 06-27-2009, 02:41 AM

Ray,

Sorry to hear of your loss. Back in 1986 I went in and paid all of my funeral expenses, plus had the head stone set. I then had powers of attorney made out so they could not keep me plugged into a machine and stated that no extraordinary measures were to be used to keep me alive. I don't use any Govt. money for me medical bills as I pay them from my savings. So I don't have any guilty feelings about living off other people work. I have always paid my own way since I was old enough to work and will do so until the time comes to end it.

Ron

cobra de capell · #17 (**permalink**) 06-27-2009, 08:46 AM

I'm also surprised at what Obama is saying, admitting, about his plan to save money - that's really not a creative idea, it's always been available to doctors - but now Obama wants to pull the plug by cutting off services through the government insurance program.

The interesting thing is that poor people will be impacted 100% with people with a few dollars ready to pay for the 'extra care' or procedure - those with real money - the sky's the limit as it's always been and always will be.

If you think about it, it’s really assisted suicide via a government program. Therefore, if the government can do it, why not allow each one of us the legal right to off ourselves with a doctors assistance? Life is America is getting really strange.

cobra de capell · #18 (**permalink**) 06-27-2009, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron61

Ray,

Sorry to hear of your loss. Back in 1986 I went in and paid all of my funeral expenses, plus had the head stone set. I then had powers of attorney made out so they could not keep me plugged into a machine and stated that no extraordinary measures were to be used to keep me alive. I don't use any Govt. money for me medical bills as I pay them from my savings. So I don't have any guilty feelings about living off other people work. I have always paid my own way since I was old enough to work and will do so until the time comes to end it.

Ron

Well, you do pay into Medicare so when that time comes you should take advantage of Medicare.

I'll admit, I'm a little confused as to being buried or cremation. I'm thinking cremation - it's quick and probably painless. Buried - down the road, the worms get you - slowly. Plus, I've watch way too much TV about people being buried alive.

Jamo · #19 (**permalink**) 06-27-2009, 03:57 PM

Cremation for me...but not in a furnace (I'm not even Jewish).

I want a big phuking funeral pyre, coins for the ferryman and some beer for me friends while Stairway to Heavan blasts through some bigassed speakers.

...and naked wimmin dancing...and a pig or five on spits...and...and...damn, I wanna be there!

computerworks · #20 (**permalink**) 06-27-2009, 04:18 PM

It's a Hefty bag at the curb for me.