Obamacare Meltdown

[cobra bill]

Originally Posted by RAZOR
Our Founding Fathers were fearful of government tyranny, they gave us the Bill of Rights to protect the people from the government,that is certainly valid fear today

Your are only half correct here, they worried about the government having a standing Army and in the beginning it was supposed to be a well trained militias, ready to form a standing army, they feared a tyrannical government would turn the army on its people. At no time were they ever worried about the government helping the sick!

[Dan40]

And your boy got 52.9 % of the vote against a placeholder. EVERYBODY, including the Republicans knew that McCain would not and could not win against anyone. A Democrat was in for sure. And he was the candidate because Hillary is shrill and unlikeable. Yet the obummer won a majority by 2.9 points. An easily and already eroded, "mandate."
His election proves only that we have too many lazy, and ignorant people looking for a free ride on productive peoples money.
It WILL Stop!

[map]

The Dems are on Defense now there spending Millions on commercial time because the sleeping giant finally woke up and read the bill Chairman Obummer will be going Critical Mass soon...

[Dan40]

Hey Cobra Bill,



A friend of mine wants a Cobra real bad, REAL bad. He wants one so bad, he "NEEDS" it! You believe in "redistribution of wealth," SEND [redistribute] HIM YOUR COBRA!

[cobra de capell]

[Jamo]

"...no ware in the constitution does it say either should have any influence."

SpaceBill...please understand that I do not moderate you because of your liberal rants or underdeveloped ability to understand the world around you.

It's the grammar thing. Another day off...spend it with a good dictionary.

[Jamo]

Everyone else...keep it down to a low rumble, please.

I'm not sure what there is to really argue about. For eight years we heard screaming and yelling, derogatory remarks against our President by Americans either here and worst...when they were abroad, demonstrations against the war while we were at war...the likes of which haven't been seen since Jane Fonda snuggled up to Ho, the Dixie Chicks, etc.

...and liberals accused conservatives of treating them as anti-American because of these activities. We read about that right here on these pages.

Here, we're having a conversation across this country about something which is internal to this country, and the liberals are branding outbursts at town hall meetings as un-American?

What is un-American are our representatives cancelling meetings out of fear that folks might let them know what they think.

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Bartruff1

AARP will support the plan...Obama has won every fight... every battle ....every skirmish....from TARP to the Budget...From the Court to General Motors....Stimulus to Cash for Clunkers...he may even have stopped settlement construction in the West Bank....every fricking pissing match....

And now he is losing one and disintegrating right before our eyes. Posted above is the Presidential approval rating and the obummer is now at a MINUS 8, after just 8 months in office.
Liberals love to cite Bush. Try this Gallup pool.
From election in 2000, Bush's approval was above 50% until MAY 2004. It hit 50% then went back up until MAY 2005 when, FOR the first time his approval rate fell below 50% and his disapproval went above it. 5 years and 5 months to fall to where obummer has fallen in 7 MONTHS. And HISTORY, [one of liberals most hated FACTS] is that recovery for a President is all but non-existent. Once they are in the toilet, they're flushed!

[RAZOR]

Originally Posted by cobra bill

You obviously have no clue who really controls every aspect of this country! it's not our elected government. As for your premise about our founding fathers, you are wrong and I can prove it. As to your disability, that should be changing for you, if it is social security you are trying to get, the Bush administration was given marching orders to deny claims, just like the insurance companies Ha! Any way they have been given new marching orders,
So they are supposed to be reviewing all those denied claims.

OK, prove it to me, after your time out. Because your on the wrong side of that argument also!

[cobra de capell]

Nicely stated, Jamo!

People seem overwhelmed by the entire mess. It appears that liberals have thrown everything into their bills to see what floats, for example....

Sections 440 and 1904 of the House bill (Page 838), under the heading "home visitation programs for families with young children and families expecting children." The programs (provided via grants to states) would educate parents on child behavior and parenting skills.

The bill says that the government agents, "well-trained and competent staff," would "provide parents with knowledge of age-appropriate child development in cognitive, language, social, emotional, and motor domains ... modeling, consulting, and coaching on parenting practices," and "skills to interact with their child to enhance age-appropriate development."

Now, First: how can we afford to do this?; Second: why would we want to do this?

People all over America are confused - it seems as if Obama and his team just want a bill passed with tons of stuff included so that they can use it to achieve some very strange goals.

By the way, the Republicans have an alternative plan - http://rsc.tomprice.house.gov/Soluti...tsFirstAct.htm

[Bartruff1]

and town halls don't matter. Every pol I know, knows that the only people that go to town halls are mad....mostly out of ignorance that generates fear....this legislation will be written by the lobbyists like all bills are and every single word will be carefully parsed and debated by reasonable, intelligent people who know the stakes and have skin in the game. Obama will get his bill, bet on it. And in the next election and subsequent elections we will see what the voters think and I suspect there will be very little change in the Congress.. Faux News and Talk Radio have reduced the Grand Old Party to a Southern Regional Rural Party full of Jesus Freaks, Gun Nuts and Bigots that has no influence over events. What ever happened to Cheney ? Someone(s) must have told him to STFU ??

[Bartruff1]

Originally Posted by Dan40

And your boy got 52.9 % of the vote against a placeholder. EVERYBODY, including the Republicans knew that McCain would not and could not win against anyone. A Democrat was in for sure. And he was the candidate because Hillary is shrill and unlikeable. Yet the obummer won a majority by 2.9 points. An easily and already eroded, "mandate."
His election proves only that we have too many lazy, and ignorant people looking for a free ride on productive peoples money.
It WILL Stop!

The Republican't ran the only candidate that could possibly have won and the Democrats ran the only candidate that could possibly have lost....and a young black man with no experience and a funny name won ....and the electoral vote was never close. It was a landslide..... a historical and transformational election.... and elections have consequences ...and we will likely move toward a secular northern european government....for the next 20 years...

[Excaliber]

Wouldn't matter who was in office right now, with the economy in ruins, the way it is now, ANY sitting President would be sinking in approval.

Some of you guys seriously underestimate the intelligence of forum members and the public...

On another note, I see Great Britain is getting fed up with the distortations of their health program by American radicals. The English talk funny, but their not stupid.

[Jamo]

The English talk funny, but their not stupid.

Is this a liberal thing?

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

fed up with the distortations of

...you missed this one.

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Wouldn't matter who was in office right now, with the economy in ruins, the way it is now, ANY sitting President would be sinking in approval.

Some of you guys seriously underestimate the intelligence of forum members and the public...

On another note, I see Great Britain is getting fed up with the distortations of their health program by American radicals. The English talk funny, but their not stupid.

Wouldn't matter who was in office right now, with the economy in ruins, the way it is now, ANY sitting President would be sinking in approval.

Ahh, the old, "its Bush's fault excuse." Make that the VERY, VERY old, excuse.

Some of you guys seriously underestimate the intelligence of forum members and the public...

You certainly DO!

[RAZOR]

Originally Posted by cobra bill

Originally Posted by RAZOR
Our Founding Fathers were fearful of government tyranny, they gave us the Bill of Rights to protect the people from the government,that is certainly valid fear today

Your are only half correct here, they worried about the government having a standing Army and in the beginning it was supposed to be a well trained militias, ready to form a standing army, they feared a tyrannical government would turn the army on its people. At no time were they ever worried about the government helping the sick!

Wow, the liberal mind is a wondrous thing.

First they were fearful of a standing army not because the government would use it but that the army itself would overthrow the government. They knew history, and that Oliver Cromwell, under the authority of Parliament,was victorious against King Charles I who had attempted to force uniformity of religious worship and to rule without Parliament,had then turned on Parliament when it became unruly, and splintered. Cromwell dispersed Parliament and became a military dictator in 1649, he called himself the Lord Protector, it remained a commonwealth(republic) until 1660, then returned to a monarchy.
King George III said at the end of the Revolutionary War that George Washington would truly be the greatest man on earth if he relinquished his power and army. Which he did to the surprise of England and the relief of America.

Now to the absurd statement about the "government helping the sick" absolutely they were fearful of an omnipotent government, Thom. Jefferson "Government at its best, governs the lest". Thomas Paine,"Government even in its best state is but a necessary evil" Checks and balances,consent of the governed, limited government those was the guiding principles.

We in the USA have now taken on the European thinking and it will emasculate us as it has them, they think government is the ultimate source of all rights,law and justice. The Founding Fathers, on the other hand held that man possessed certain inherent rights simply by the virtue of his humanity, and that governments were merely social constructions, created for the purpose of safeguarding those rights, and health care is not one of them.
Your worldview is that society should ensure equal outcome, our Founding Fathers was that society should ensure equal opportunity. I am fighting for the right to fail, and may I add humbly, I have been very successful up to this point in my life.

This nations founding was a complete break with the whole of human history, from out of the centuries of tyranny,& oppression, Thom. Paine wrote"We have it in our power to begin the world over again" We are now the first and longest living Constitutional Republic in history. What Jefferson termed as the "Grand Experiment" in liberty and freedom, is speedily sinking into the cesspool of government control and being strangled by the tentacles of a far reaching bureaucracy.

These are quotes of Thomas Jefferson, "A wise and frugal government which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned, this is the sum of good government."

"Dependence begets subservience & venality suffocates the germ of virtue"

Experience hath shown that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have in time & by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny"

[Excaliber]

...man the grammar police are out enforce today.

So Dan40, are you saying Bush is the cause of the current economic meltdown? I didn't say that, but the cause could be argued that way.

distortation, is that a word? Sounds like a good one.

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by Jamo

The English talk funny, but their not stupid.

Is this a liberal thing?

Yes, they are a sloppy bunch, at best.

Here's something for your use......

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

...man the grammar police are out enforce today.

So Dan40, are you saying Bush is the cause of the current economic meltdown? I didn't say that, but the cause could be argued that way.

distortation, is that a word? Sounds like a good one.

Everybody knows, "Its Bush's fault." is the liberal mantra. And your next sentence after the "poor economy" would naturally be, "Its Bush,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
And "could be argued that way? You got wood just trying to make that arguement.