Obamacare Meltdown

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

... But, keep your day job.

Happily....

[Excaliber]

Here's the bottom line:

The guy with gall stones died because he couldn't get treatment, that is the essential fact(s) of this case. Lack of or denial of treatment, whatever, we have a problem! It's something that needs to be addressed. If you weren't such a wuss you might be able to grasp that reality. Rather than run around calling everyone that gets in your way a liar, from the POTUS, to forum members to the man on the street.

Sounds like you need therapy to overcome your paranoia that you are surrounded by liars? Try the pink pill this month, the blue ones seem to be highly agitating for you.

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Here's the bottom line:

The guy with gall stones died because he couldn't get treatment, that is the essential fact(s) of this case. Lack of or denial of treatment, whatever, we have a problem! It's something that needs to be addressed. If you weren't such a wuss you might be able to grasp that reality. Rather than run around calling everyone that gets in your way a liar, from the POTUS, to forum members to the man on the street.

Sounds like you need therapy to overcome your paranoia that you are surrounded by liars? Try the pink pill this month, the blue ones seem to be highly agitating for you.

"The guy with gall stones died because he couldn't get treatment,"


WRONG, he could get treatment, but he had to agree to pay for it.


Bottom line, your president intentionally lied. He lied to promote HIS outrageous total destruction and rebuilding of the best health care system
on the planet. And he lied to make an insurance company look bad when they were only following the regulations put on them by politicians. And he lied against a business that simply followed the law and good business practices, in favor of a man attempting fraud against that business. That is the lie by omission. obummer 'neglected' to inform the audience that the patient was attempting to defraud. And he 'neglected to inform the audience that the man could have had all the treatment he needed,but he had to sign the form that allows the hospital to treat him. but that form also states that the man accept financial responsibility for the cost of the treatment.

Had the man been honest on the application, the insurance company would have covered his serious illness, but ridered out coverage on his gall stones.

He got caught in his own commission of a criminal act. That, not the health care system was his problem.

And I have consistently and constantly said that our health care system needs adjusting. The business end certainly does, but not the medical care part.
Tossing out a working system in favor of a yet to be decided system. There are now at least 6 to pick from. 600 pages, to 1100 pages to 1600 pages and in between.
Want a simple cost cutter with Government involvement? Malpractice, want to sue? Sue the US Gov. Malpractice dept.
Doctors no longer have to carry $400,000.00 per year malpractice insurance, nor do they have to preform every possible test to protect themselves against malpractice suits. If they can have a "Death Panel," they can have a Malpractice suit dept.
Try a single step like that or anything else for 24 months. See what it did. Worked or not then try one more thing.
Planning to implode the system with NOTHING tried or tested to replace it is the height of arrogance, conceit, and stupidity. Add liar and you got obummer.

[Excaliber]

Pay up or die! What kind of program is that? Sounds like a Mafia deal...

You pay, or sleep wid da fishes.

Faced with a life or death decision based on a flawed insurance program you leave this guy with few choices and condem him to death if he get's it wrong.

Obama seems to have got the essential facts correct all right.

[392cobra]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Pay up or die! What kind of program is that? Sounds like a Mafia deal...

You pay, or sleep wid da fishes.

You and that attempted con have no "Right"' to Health Care at my expense.

Get a grip.
Nothing in life is Free,somebody has to pay for it.
I think you have been living off others so long you feel entitled to the rewards of their labor.

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Here's the bottom line:

The guy with gall stones died because he couldn't get treatment, that is the essential fact(s) of this case. Lack of or denial of treatment, whatever, we have a problem! It's something that needs to be addressed. If you weren't such a wuss you might be able to grasp that reality. Rather than run around calling everyone that gets in your way a liar, from the POTUS, to forum members to the man on the street.

Sounds like you need therapy to overcome your paranoia that you are surrounded by liars? Try the pink pill this month, the blue ones seem to be highly agitating for you.

Excaliber - all the members know who needs therapy and it's you.

As too lying, including embellishing, Obama is a confirmed master with no equal.....case in point....


In President Obama’s recent speeches and in his editorial in the New York Times today, he has continued to mention the sad case of a man who lost his health coverage during life saving chemotherapy and consequently died because he did not disclose a previous condition of gallstones.

Quoting his editorial in the New York Times, “A man lost his health coverage in the middle of chemotherapy because the insurance discovered that he had gallstones, which he hadn’t known about when he applied for his policy. Because his treatment was delayed, he died.”

Unfortunately for the president, the story is not true. The man received his life saving operation and lived an additional three years. The man in question is Otto Radditz, an Illinois businessman. He became a central focus in a hearing on June 16th entitled “Terminations of Individual Health Policies by Insurance Companies” held by the Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations in the Energy and Commerce committee. His sister, Peggy Radditz, testified on his behalf. She testified that the insurance company Fortis dropped his coverage right before a life saving stem cell transplant because he failed to notify the company of pre-existing gallstones and an aneurysm.

Soon after, he was mentioned all over the left blogosphere as having perished because he did not receive this treatment. For instance a blogger on Slate states “Otto Raddatz, a restaurant owner in Illinois, was rescinded in 2004 by Fortis Insurance Co. after he was diagnosed with non-Hodgkins lymphoma. Fortis said this was because Raddatz had failed to disclose that a CT scan four years earlier had revealed that he had an aneurism and gall stones. Raddatz replied—and his doctor confirmed—that he had never been told about these conditions (the doctor said they were "very minor" and didn't require treatment), but Fortis nonetheless refused a payout until the state attorney general intervened. The delay in treatment eliminated Raddatz's chances of recovery, and he died.”

http://www.slate.com/discuss/forums/thread/3054423.aspx

The president was quick to pick up this meme and it has become part of his health care reform stump speech and at his town halls. The only problem with his narrative is that Otto Raddatz received his treatment and lived another 3 years. According to the meeting transcripts found at

http://energycommerce.house.gov/Pres...0090616_oi.pdf

starting on page 4, “… Otto Raddatz was a 59-year-old restaurant owner from Illinois who was diagnosed with an aggressive form of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, a cancer of the immune system. He underwent intensive chemotherapy and was told that he had to have a stem cell transplant in order to survive. With coverage provided by his individual insurance policy, he was scheduled to have the procedure performed. But then his insurance company suddenly told him it was going to cancel his insurance coverage. Otto could not pay for the transplant without health insurance. The stem cell transplant surgery was cancelled. The insurance company told him that it found when he applied for his insurance, he had not told the company about a test that had shown that he might have gallstones and an aneurysm, or weakness of the blood vessel wall. In fact, Otto's doctor had never told him about these test results. He didn't have any symptoms, and these conditions did not have anything to do with his cancer, but the insurance company was going to rescind his policy, effectively tearing up the contract as if it never happened and it would not pay for his stem cell transplant. Otto made a desperate plea to the Illinois Attorney General's Office seeking help to get his insurance company to reverse its decision. He told them, and I quote, ``I was diagnosed with non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. It is a matter of extreme urgency that I receive my transplant in 3 weeks. This is an urgent matter. Please help me so I can have my transplant scheduled. Any delay could threaten my life." The Illinois Attorney General's Office launched an investigation, confirmed that Otto's doctor had never even told him about the test findings and sent two letters to press the insurance company to reinstate his policy. The company relented and Otto received his stem cell transplant. He was able to live 3 more years before passing away earlier this year.”

Now certainly the insurance company looks bad in this instant and should have not rescinded the policy. But why does our President need to embellish and outright lie to try to bolster his case. His arguments should stand on there own merit.

All of Obama’s lies need to be pointed out as often as possible. Eventually even the dumb people, and Excaliber, will catch on that Obama is a fraud.

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by 392cobra

You and that attempted con have no "Right"' to Health Care at my expense.

Get a grip.
Nothing in life is Free,somebody has to pay for it.
I think you have been living off others so long you feel entitled to the rewards of their labor.

That's really the bottomline - Not only do people not have a 'right' to health care, they don't have the 'right' to premium health care if they are not willing the manage their life so that they can contribute to it.

Everyone has health care in America at this time - even those who are not legally in America. The issue is: do those of us who have managed our lives in a way that has produced funds to pay for premium health care, meaning a private policy, need to step up and pay for those that have not.

Yes, bad things happen to people that don't have a private health care policy. And, the private health care policy industries needs to be tweaked by Congress - so, tweak it, don't blow it up.

[Ronbo]

Of course another thing is this will now have the IRS involved in yet another deduction. You think the insurance co. is bad? Wait till these azzholes get involved.

I had a minor mistake in my payroll deductions, ended up paying too much withholding of about $270. Six months later the IRS caught it and fined me $300. (BTW they can also do this to an individual, although it's one of those special screwings they reserve for businesses who collect their taxes for them free of charge)

The state people are just as bad if not worse.

Let me fill you in on the "uninsured" if I just paid my employees the money I spend on their insurance, half of them would be out shopping for boats or cars. Either way this goes I'll end up paying the non-working's medical expenses in the form of permiums (it's well established how hospitals pad bills to the ins. co's) and of course tax dollars going currently to indigent care. (for gunshot "victoms" and the clap clinics)

Let the churches run the charities and get the government out of this. The same people pay the bills either way and the church is at least more efficiant.

[Don]

Kevin Rennie writes an Opinion article for the Hartford ( CT ) Courant . His credit reads : " Kevin Rennie is a lawyer and a former Republican state legislator . His column appears Sunday in the CTOpinion section. "

Regarding the controversy on Health Care, Rennie writes " The must read of the week on all this belongs to Camille Paglia in her monthly column at Salon.com "

If not familiar with Salon.com, the Home site is:

http://www.salon.com/

Camille's article, posted in the Opinion section, titled " Obama's healthcare horror "

http://dir.salon.com/topics/camille_paglia/

http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/...lls/index.html

..... another perspective and opinion on the topic.

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

Excaliber - all the members know who needs therapy and it's you.

As too lying, including embellishing, Obama is a confirmed master with no equal.....case in point....


In President Obama’s recent speeches and in his editorial in the New York Times today, he has continued to mention the sad case of a man who lost his health coverage during life saving chemotherapy and consequently died because he did not disclose a previous condition of gallstones.

Quoting his editorial in the New York Times, “A man lost his health coverage in the middle of chemotherapy because the insurance discovered that he had gallstones, which he hadn’t known about when he applied for his policy. Because his treatment was delayed, he died.”

Unfortunately for the president, the story is not true. The man received his life saving operation and lived an additional three years. The man in question is Otto Radditz, an Illinois businessman. He became a central focus in a hearing on June 16th entitled “Terminations of Individual Health Policies by Insurance Companies” held by the Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations in the Energy and Commerce committee. His sister, Peggy Radditz, testified on his behalf. She testified that the insurance company Fortis dropped his coverage right before a life saving stem cell transplant because he failed to notify the company of pre-existing gallstones and an aneurysm.

Soon after, he was mentioned all over the left blogosphere as having perished because he did not receive this treatment. For instance a blogger on Slate states “Otto Raddatz, a restaurant owner in Illinois, was rescinded in 2004 by Fortis Insurance Co. after he was diagnosed with non-Hodgkins lymphoma. Fortis said this was because Raddatz had failed to disclose that a CT scan four years earlier had revealed that he had an aneurism and gall stones. Raddatz replied—and his doctor confirmed—that he had never been told about these conditions (the doctor said they were "very minor" and didn't require treatment), but Fortis nonetheless refused a payout until the state attorney general intervened. The delay in treatment eliminated Raddatz's chances of recovery, and he died.”

http://www.slate.com/discuss/forums/thread/3054423.aspx

The president was quick to pick up this meme and it has become part of his health care reform stump speech and at his town halls. The only problem with his narrative is that Otto Raddatz received his treatment and lived another 3 years. According to the meeting transcripts found at

http://energycommerce.house.gov/Pres...0090616_oi.pdf

starting on page 4, “… Otto Raddatz was a 59-year-old restaurant owner from Illinois who was diagnosed with an aggressive form of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, a cancer of the immune system. He underwent intensive chemotherapy and was told that he had to have a stem cell transplant in order to survive. With coverage provided by his individual insurance policy, he was scheduled to have the procedure performed. But then his insurance company suddenly told him it was going to cancel his insurance coverage. Otto could not pay for the transplant without health insurance. The stem cell transplant surgery was cancelled. The insurance company told him that it found when he applied for his insurance, he had not told the company about a test that had shown that he might have gallstones and an aneurysm, or weakness of the blood vessel wall. In fact, Otto's doctor had never told him about these test results. He didn't have any symptoms, and these conditions did not have anything to do with his cancer, but the insurance company was going to rescind his policy, effectively tearing up the contract as if it never happened and it would not pay for his stem cell transplant. Otto made a desperate plea to the Illinois Attorney General's Office seeking help to get his insurance company to reverse its decision. He told them, and I quote, ``I was diagnosed with non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. It is a matter of extreme urgency that I receive my transplant in 3 weeks. This is an urgent matter. Please help me so I can have my transplant scheduled. Any delay could threaten my life." The Illinois Attorney General's Office launched an investigation, confirmed that Otto's doctor had never even told him about the test findings and sent two letters to press the insurance company to reinstate his policy. The company relented and Otto received his stem cell transplant. He was able to live 3 more years before passing away earlier this year.”

Now certainly the insurance company looks bad in this instant and should have not rescinded the policy. But why does our President need to embellish and outright lie to try to bolster his case. His arguments should stand on there own merit.

All of Obama’s lies need to be pointed out as often as possible. Eventually even the dumb people, and Excaliber, will catch on that Obama is a fraud.

Addendum:

This entry contains information applicable to United States law only.

A provision in a life or health insurance policy that precludes the insurer from alleging that the policy, after it has been in effect for a stated period (typically two or three years), is void because of misrepresentations made by the insured in the application for it.
An incontestability clause prevents an insurer from denying benefits on the ground of misrepresentation in the application. The clause applies only when the policy has been in effect for a specified period of time. This time period, the contestability period, is usually two or three years.
Most states maintain statutes that require an incontestability clause in life and health insurance contracts. The incontestability clause strikes a balance between providing predictable coverage and protecting the right of insurers to select the precise risks they seek to insure.

This was cut and pasted.

[Gordon Claunch]

Say AHHH!!

[cobra de capell]

Some good progress.....

WASHINGTON – Apparently ready to abandon the idea, President Barack Obama's health secretary said Sunday a government alternative to private health insurance is "not the essential element" of the administration's health care overhaul.

The White House indicated it could jettison the contentious public option and settle on insurance cooperatives as an acceptable alternative, a move embraced by some Republicans lawmakers who have strongly opposed the administration's approach so far.

Officials from both political parties reached across the aisle in an effort to find compromises on proposals they left behind when they returned to their districts for an August recess. Obama has been pressing for the government to run a health insurance organization to help cover the nation's almost 50 million uninsured.

Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said the White House would be open to co-ops instead of a government-run public option, a sign Democrats want a compromise so they can declare a victory on the must-win showdown.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_overhaul

It's interesting - Obama got the AMA and AARP (sort of), etc on board but under estimated the citizens of America - the giant woke up just in time - if anything passes it will not look anything like the bills that are currently pending in Congress. Thank God for the people of America, especially those that have and will attend the Townhall meetings - a lot of democrats would love to vote for the pending bills but they would love to be re-elected even more.

Actually, Obama has been 'exposed' through this process. Any of you that have worked closely with the CEO of practically any type of business, especially CEO's that are incompetent will recognize Obama's incompetence as the CEO of America. Of course, that was expected by practically every member posting here, except for 3-4 and we all know who they are.

[Jamo]

CdC and Oinie...from earlier this morning. You two either need to start using similies when you use "wuse" or suggest "therapy" to someone else...

...or step back a bit from each other.

[cobra de capell]

But, what if someone really needs therapy? Aren't we here to help each other? We've ended up with some really more than passingly strange members, some that have been around for a long time - I don't know what their problem is, but I'll bet it's hard to pronounce.

Also, keep in mind who starts this stuff - Clue: it's not me. I'm thinking that a note to the member that starts strange stuff is the action to be taken, not the one that feels a need to respond, gently.

[Jamo]

CdC...I know, you're just trying to save your fellow earthmen who have lost their way, but help me out here a bit, will ya.

[cobra de capell]

OK, I'm just out to share with the little people.

[computerworks]

...just try and do your "sharing" without taking cheap shots at other members.

[Excaliber]

Is there anybody you DON'T argue with?

...just wondering.

Suggested emoticon here:

[Dan40]

Just watched a bit of obummer's health care whine in Co.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf4Pj...eature=popular

In it he states that insurance premiums have doubled in the "last few years"
(is this in the last 3 years? 2 years?, 7 years?, or 12 years? or does he not want to be specific so I can't say he is lying?)
I know that no one on this site that has run a business would accept such vague info in a report from an employee. And obummer is an employee.

He also states in re: the rising premiums that "NO one is holding the insurance companies accountable for this!"
One of 2 things is true of that statement,
1. He is a lawyer but does not have the knowledge that insurance premiums are regulated by the home states of the insurance. Companies must submit a rate hike request to the STATE INSURANCE COMMISSIONER or Office of Business Regulation. Different states have different names for it.
For instance, State Farm is pulling out of Florida because their property insurance rate request has been disapproved for the 3rd time. Medical insurance premiums must also be approved.

So obummer either LACKS rudimentary knowledge on a subject that is hyper important to him,
OR
2. He is ly,,,,MISREPRESINTING, DISEMBLING, DECEITFUL, DISHONEST OR STUPID. pick your favorite.

[Ronbo]

What Dan said is 100% correct. Here in Florida Medical ins. plans are defined by the Ins. Commisioner, not the Insurance Co. itself.

I'm not sure where State farm is right now, that issue was over S.F. wanting to increase rates in the areas that frequently get hit by hurricanes. The I.C. said no you can increase all rates this %. S.F. told them to pack sand.

Basically the Insurance Commisioner showed his azz, and got called on it. My agent called me some time ago to let me know this was just a pissing contest and they wern't going anywhere. The only other company that could realisticly write all those policies is Allstate and they don't want it either.

Which then leaves the state or the feds... (kinda like Obamacare)