Obamacare Meltdown

[Bartruff1]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Excellent point. Many of us didn't like it when folks were derogatory about Bush.

President Obama is lying to give people healt care !!!

[Ronbo]

No, Obama is lying to get control of health care. (money)

Since there haven't been any new attacks on our soil, I'd say at least a majority of the right people are dying.

These people have hated us for decades, so there's no room for being pussies about their disposition. The ex-drunk from Texas responded better than the conman from Arkansas who was busy playing "hide the cigar" with fat chicks.

Obama's biggest problem is he's no where near the conman the hillbilly was.

[Bartruff1]

Originally Posted by Ronbo

No, Obama is lying to get control of health care. (money)

Since there haven't been any new attacks on our soil, I'd say at least a majority of the right people are dying.

These people have hated us for decades, so there's no room for being pussies about their disposition. The ex-drunk from Texas responded better than the conman from Arkansas who was busy playing "hide the cigar" with fat chicks.

Obama's biggest problem is he's no where near the conman the hillbilly was.

High praise indeed !!!

[cobra de capell]

Obama pulls plug on flag@whitehouse.gov... Emails bounce back

[cobra de capell]

Great Mark Steyn article on this subject....

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/l...29244-say-good

Unplugging Grandma isn't the problem


He speaks truth to my ears.

“The problem with government health systems is not that they pull the plug on Grandma. It’s that Grandma has a hell of a time getting plugged in in the first place. The only way to “control costs” is to restrict access to treatment, and the easiest people to deny treatment to are the oldsters. Don’t worry, it’s all very scientific. In Britain, they use a “Quality-Adjusted Life Year” formula to decide that you don’t really need that new knee because you’re gonna die in a year or two, maybe a decade-and-a-half tops. So it’s in the national interest for you to go around hobbling in pain rather than divert “finite resources” away from productive members of society to a useless old geezer like you. And you’d be surprised how quickly geezerdom kicks in: A couple of years back, some Quebec facilities were attributing death from hospital-contracted infection of anyone over 55 to “old age.” Well, he had a good innings. He was 57.”

[cobraduke]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

"Palin" and "dream" in the same sentence? I think that's only allowed if it's a wet dream...

Nice Earnie, now I see why you were silent for so long on these forums. You need to consider that option again, or think about your posts more carefully before you post it. Counter the ideas, not the messenger, especially in such a sleezey way. Your lack of tact is much more objectionable and destructive of dialogue than some frustrated folks raising their voices at open meetings when the politicians persist in reading misleading or outright false prepared statements rather than answering the concerns of participants who have actually read some of the proposed legislation while they obviously have not.

My opinion is that Obama, Reid and Pelosi et al. are about to back down on government run health insurance option and may be some of the new direct regulation of health care in these bills; however, that will not fix the crisis as it leaves in place all the perverse incentives to over bill, over treat, over medicate and over sue of the current system, largely in place due to GOVERNMENT intervention at the national and state levels that make cost saving and innovation from new entry into this market costly or impossible. For sure those that profit from such government restrictions on heath care entry will line up to support this.

When costs continue to escalate and treatment continues to become more the province of risk managers and lawyers, there will be another push to grab hold of health care and nationalize it. I see that as exactly the wrong direction to go, but that is likely when so many view bureaucrats as the solution to every problem and have so little appreciation how largely unregulated markets work to promote innovation, individual consumer choice and cost control. Only the government can make me buy something I don't want or prevent a seller from selling me something I do want. General motors never got a dime from me after the Citation I bought in 1981. Now they have claim to my income and that of my children and grandchildren without our permission. The same will result from increased and continued government control of health care.

Now about Obama winning all the fights. Agreed. And the national deficit for this year is over $1.6 trillion, more that four times the previous record in 2008. Which was nothing to sneeze at. Thanks to all who empowered this congress and this president for passing on to my kids and their kids an ADDITION to their share of the public debt of $5100 per person in just this year for which they will pay interest on the rest of their lives. Don't even try to give me the inherited argument. Demo congress passed it all with Obama voting yea.

For those of you who like the "hope" and "change" we now have, I'll keep my choice and you keep the "change". My hope is that 2010 sees a dramatic reversal of the current death spiral we have embarked upon in 2006 and 2008 and that a viable alternative emerges. Honestly the difference between the two parties is a matter of degree, not principles. Do you like to slide down this razor blade slow or fast? That has been about it. McCain was a perfect example as was Bush. A 3+ trillion dollar national government is way too big. Over 40 trillion dollars of unfunded obligations is absurd. The real issue of equity and justice is the intergeneration transfer of debt to our children. If you want to buy health care for someone who is an illegal or between coverages or self insured or young and dumb or is lacking job skills, then do it privately, but please allow me the same choice. I do my charity locally where there are no bureaucrats skimming off the top and where I know the need is real. Don't use your social concern to steal the money from our kids so you can feel noble on the cheap. When did we get the right to make such choices for the future generations?

Catch a clue, not only is this huge in direct present and future costs, it will kill future private investment, private jobs, private choice and increasing living standards. I lived in Europe for six years, it is dying quickly under the weight of the costs of exactly this sort of all encompassing government social welfare entitlements and regulation. We are close on their heals and gaining ground. Obama might win that one also. Hope is not a method and change is not good in and of itself. We are getting what we asked for, but I can not see this as positive.

Mike

[VRM]

Originally Posted by Ronbo

Obama's biggest problem is he's no where near the conman the hillbilly was.

I think it may even go deeper than that.

I met Clinton. He seemed like a very bright guy who could grasp difficult concepts, but that also made him good at being able to use things to his advantage. I think he could have been a better leader if he had paid attention in ethics classes.

Bush seemed to have problems (or was too lazy) getting the concepts, but I think he knew this and that's what his people were for. I consider his father, though, to be one of the best statesmen we have ever had.

McCain seemed too high strung and not all that sure of the details, and that seemed quite a bit different from the guy who ran back in 2000.

Obama is a great speaker, and he has some grand aspirations. He seems to have convinced himself that he knows all the details, and is thus able to convince others. He seems to be reasonably bright, and hopefully he is learning some fast lessons. Time will tell.

Hillary cracks me up - she will go to her grave convinced that she is a better man than Bill.

Steve

[VRM]

Originally Posted by cobraduke

Nice Earnie, now I see why you were silent for so long on these forums. You need to consider that option again, or think about your posts more carefully before you post it. Counter the ideas, not the messenger, especially in such a sleezey way. Your lack of tact is much more objectionable and destructive of dialogue than some frustrated folks raising their voices at open meetings when the politicians persist in reading misleading or outright false prepared statements rather than answering the concerns of participants who have actually read some of the proposed legislation while they obviously have not.

Mike

Mike,
I agree with pretty much the rest of what you said.
Regarding this part - there are plenty of others on this forum who do exactly the same thing. They are on all sides of pretty much all the debates. We all do it from time to time. Some more than others.
Steve

[Dan40]

The obamalumpas first say there is no "single payer" in their health care bill. Then they say they will take it out. Then they say they won't. How do you remove or not remove what was never there? Phucking Magic? [aka FM]

The obamalumpas say there is no "Death Panel" in the bill. Then they say they will take it out! More FM?

Then they say there is no Government system in the bill and then they say they will use Co-Ops instead of the Government. Co-ops ARE the Government.

That's just the steaming pile of bullcrap. What about the money? The obamalumpas say their plan will save millions. Disregarding the FACT that so far they have had NO Plan in place for anything they have done yet.
Like the American auto industry WILL NOT go bankrupt, Well Ford, American Toyota and American Honda didn't go bankrupt. But GM and Chrysler DID. Despite obama's assurances that they would not be ALLOWED to go bankrupt. But they did! Then the obamalumpas GIVE Chrysler to Fiat in spite of the secured creditors guarantees to be first paid. And then they GIVE GM to the UAW. Screwing the secured creditors again. Many of them just ordinary citizens. Was that all "PLANNED" from the start? No the "PLAN" was knee jerk from beginning to end, same as the health care "plans" are now.
The Congressional Budget Office says one plan will increase debt by over a trillion and another plan with increase debt by over 1.6 trillion. obamalama calls the CBO head on the White House carpet. The Executive Branch does not have authority over the CBO and had NO business calling its head in for an azz chewing. Then BHO says the CBO has adjusted their numbers. The CBO says the health care plan will not increase debt by a trillion---------------------------If you steal 300 million from Medicare and raise taxes by 700 million. Obamalama left that out. And the $1.6 trillion overspend just vanished to somewhere. Then the obamalama says he will not sign a bill that, "is not revenue neutral!"

"REVENUE NEUTRAL"!!!! What happened to the savings? Where'd they go?
Plan? What plan, what day/hour?

[elmariachi]

Obama is just another idiot Senator who is unqualified to be ram-rodding this fast-track healthcare down our throats, much less running this country. Like Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Barny the Pickle Smoker, he is listening to his gaggle of junior-level MBAs and economists, who are advising him on all this ****. None of them have ever run a company or procured and maintained insurance for a group of employees, and most of what they say is lab-rat tested at best. The reason he is backing off is they are losing the "bull**** sells" battle amongst grass-roots voters. You can bet every Democratic election office in the US is getting slammed by people who voted this liar in and are now feeling screwed. I say bring on the Balanced Budget Amendment.

This isn't about premiums doubling (another lie) this is about trying to get everyone else to foot the bill for the 47 million without insurance. This administration wants to go down in history as socializing free healthcare and medicine, it suddenly isn't going their way, and they are now backing up faster than ole Stickum himself:


.

[Dan40]

Just saw a new Democrap add for Health Care reform,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Except it explicitly said, "HEALTH INSURANCE REFORM!"

Does that mean that despite being 37th in the world, our health CARE is now OK? Its just our INSURANCE that needs to be reformed?

The insurance that for many, many decades, has been regulated, supervised, approved, and controlled by politicians, that insurance????????


Following the jinking and juking by this obamalama is a worse, AND BIGGER, job than the guy with the scooper that follows the elephants at parades.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by Dan40

obamalama

Bring on the doo-wop chorus!!

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by VRM

Bring on the doo-wop chorus!!

You dint like his "posse?" The obamalumpas?

[cobra de capell]

Rep. Massa: I will vote against the interests of my district

MASSA: I will vote for the single payer bill.

PARTICIPANT: Even if it meant you were being voted out of office?

MASSA: I will vote adamantly against the interests of my district if I actually think what I am doing is going to be helpful.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/weblo...nterests-my-d/

[cobra de capell]

CBS) CBS News has learned that up to 60,000 people have cancelled their AARP memberships since July 1, angered over the group's position on health care.

Elaine Guardiani has been with AARP for 14 years, and said, "I'm extremely disappointed in AARP."

Retired nurse Dale Anderson has 12 years with AARP and said, "I don't wanna be connected with AARP."

Many are switching to the American Seniors Association, a group that calls itself the conservative alternative as CBS News Investigative Correspondent Sharyl Attkisson reports.

Last week alone, they added more than 5,000 new members. Our camera was there Friday when the mail came.

Letters were filled with cut-up AARP cards.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...html?tag=stack

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

Rep. Massa: I will vote against the interests of my district

MASSA: I will vote for the single payer bill.

PARTICIPANT: Even if it meant you were being voted out of office?

MASSA: I will vote adamantly against the interests of my district if I actually think what I am doing is going to be helpful.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/weblo...nterests-my-d/

Rep Massa needs some book learnin',

rep·re·sen·ta·tive (rpr-znt-tv)
n.
1.. One that serves as a delegate or agent for another.
2. Authorized to act as an official delegate or agent.
3. Of or characteristic of government by representation.
4. Like or typical of others of the same class.

They are not "deciders", same as Bush wasn't. They are representavies of the electorate, not of a political party.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

CBS) CBS News has learned that up to 60,000 people have cancelled their AARP memberships since July 1

Which explains why they vomited up this site:

http://www.healthactionnow.org/Default.aspx

Just a little more pushing and this thing is going to blow wide open.

[Bartruff1]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

CBS) CBS News has learned that up to 60,000 people have cancelled their AARP memberships since July 1, angered over the group's position on health care.

Elaine Guardiani has been with AARP for 14 years, and said, "I'm extremely disappointed in AARP."

Retired nurse Dale Anderson has 12 years with AARP and said, "I don't wanna be connected with AARP."

Many are switching to the American Seniors Association, a group that calls itself the conservative alternative as CBS News Investigative Correspondent Sharyl Attkisson reports.

Last week alone, they added more than 5,000 new members. Our camera was there Friday when the mail came.

Letters were filled with cut-up AARP cards.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...html?tag=stack

" When cattle and women (and seniors) get restless , there is trouble brewing " This must be shaking AARP to it's roots.....lets see, down from 40,000,000 to 39, 940,000 with tens of thousands joining each month. They might have waited till there was a actual bill but I am sure they will be more comfortable in ASA. Context is important.

[cobra de capell]

Yes, it's a odd position for a 'representative' to take and re-election will be a *****.

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by Bartruff1

" When cattle and women (and seniors) get restless , there is trouble brewing " This must be shaking AARP to it's roots.....lets see, down from 40,000,000 to 39, 940,000 with tens of thousands joining each month. They might have waited till there was a actual bill but I am sure they will be more comfortable in ASA. Context is important.

I'm thinking that the 60,000 is the tip of the iceburg - seniors tend to talk about this stuff, regularly and it's they are very unhappy campers at this point.