Obamacare Meltdown

[Dan40]

MEDICARE is the Governments health care system for seniors. MEDICARE has NO connection with Medicaid, which is a welfare system for the poor.
Medicare PRESENTLY covers 45 MILLION people. The most it has ever covered. Yet in its 4.4 decades of existence it has cost OVER a TRILLION dollars per decade. A full Gov. health care system will cover 330,000,000 people TODAY, plus illegals, another 5 to 30 million, who the hell knows?
About 7.5 TIMES the number Medicare covers now, and they CLAIM it will save money, AND IMPROVE our health care!!!
How can anyone be dumb enough to believe that and still have enough sense to breathe in and out?

[cobra de capell]

Plus, Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security - as well as the Post Office and Amtrak - are headed for bankruptcy - now, they (actually, we) want to take over all health care?

I'm thinking that there is a huge disconnect between voters and representatives.

Question - if the election were re-held today, even with McCain the only other choice, would Obama be re-elected POTUS?

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by Dan40

and they CLAIM it will save money

The great lie, "It will save money." Save versus what? Notice they never say , "The COST WILL GO DOWN. " They don't even say "THE COST WILL REMAIN THE SAME."

Show me one government-run entity or one government-subsidized entity that is healthy and profitable. Post Office? Broke. Social Security? Bankrupt. IRS? Can't collect what's owed. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac? Ha.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

Question - if the election were re-held today, even with McCain the only other choice, would Obama be re-elected POTUS?

In my opinion, yes. The Obama Administration have only begun to trip themselves up, there is more of this to come. Most of the really pissed people are all of us, not Democrats jumping the fence. Now let them keep on pissing on the elderly with this healthcare and the blue collars with the gutting of the industries that lean on labor unions etc etc and then you might see a shift. But the minorities and immigrants who voted for him are still happy because he's doin' battle to get 'em all their FEMA and DOC4FREE cards.

[cobra de capell]

You could be right, but apparently independents are uphappy, as well as republicans and conservatives - he won by only 3-4 million - he'll be one-term for sure by the time 2012 rolls around. Reducing the unemployment rate without hiring primarily government workers is the key. He's really the liberal golden boy but he's not delivering to them - now, Shehan is set to protest him on vacation in Martha's Vineyard - that should be a kick for the locals (not).

[VRM]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

Question - if the election were re-held today, even with McCain the only other choice, would Obama be re-elected POTUS?

That's a really interesting question. I think the answer would still be yes, but by a smaller margin. Democrats did not elect Obama, and Republicans did not elect Bush. The independents who were sick of 8 years of Clinton elected Bush, and those same people elected Obama after 8 years of Bush.
Both parties will always have their base, but the voters in the middle who vote on issues will decide who wins. I don't think that those people have yet decided that a continuation of the policies of the Bush administration (by a guy who admitted that he didn't know much about economics) would be better than the poor decisions/policies of Obamas.

We will see in a couple of years.

Steve

[cobra de capell]

Abraham Lincoln famously said “government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.” For our philosophically liberal leaders in government, “for the people” will suffice.

[Bartruff1]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

I'm thinking that the 60,000 is the tip of the iceburg - seniors tend to talk about this stuff, regularly and it's they are very unhappy campers at this point.

I can just see their red faces with the veins pulsing....I also suspect they get their information from Faux News and talk radio...I also suspect they will continue to take advantage of the AARP Lobby....now if they would tear up their Social Security and Medicare Cards and refuse to recieve the benefits, I would really be impressed. The thing that really pisses me off about our "system" is that I have to pay for the freaking fat people...the smokers...the drunks and the dopers... I don't mind paying for kids even illegal ones....

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Bartruff1

I can just see their red faces with the veins pulsing....I also suspect they get their information from Faux News and talk radio...I also suspect they will continue to take advantage of the AARP Lobby....now if they would tear up their Social Security and Medicare Cards and refuse to recieve the benefits, I would really be impressed. The thing that really pisses me off about our "system" is that I have to pay for the freaking fat people...the smokers...the drunks and the dopers... I don't mind paying for kids even illegal ones....

Do you forget that people PAID into Soc. Sec. all their lives by law. And they have paid into Medicare since 65, again by law.
The SS and Medicare cards AND the funds that are 'supposed' to be behind those programs, BELONG to the people that paid into them.

You are willing to pay for an ILLEGAL freeloader, but want American Citizens to tear up cards they have EARNED and PAID into for years.

Is that the essence of lobotomized liberal logic or what?

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by Dan40

Is that the essence of lobotomized liberal logic or what?

No...that's his opinion.

...and it is no better or worse than your opinion.

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by Bartruff1

I can just see their red faces with the veins pulsing....I also suspect they get their information from Faux News and talk radio...I also suspect they will continue to take advantage of the AARP Lobby....now if they would tear up their Social Security and Medicare Cards and refuse to recieve the benefits, I would really be impressed. The thing that really pisses me off about our "system" is that I have to pay for the freaking fat people...the smokers...the drunks and the dopers... I don't mind paying for kids even illegal ones....

So, what's 'Faux' about Fox News? You would do well to listen up - Fox is providing a fair and balanced view 24/7. Seniors are listening to Fox and talk radio with the points being made coming right from pending bills.

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by computerworks

No...that's his opinion.

...and it is no better or worse than your opinion.

Pay for parasites but steal from those that PAID THE BILLS FOR YEARS?

That is an opinion?

It is also insane, illogic, and un-American. And that is a FACT, not an opinion!

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by Dan40

That is an opinion?

Why, yes...it is. Good work.

[Bartruff1]

Originally Posted by Dan40

Do you forget that people PAID into Soc. Sec. all their lives by law. And they have paid into Medicare since 65, again by law.
The SS and Medicare cards AND the funds that are 'supposed' to be behind those programs, BELONG to the people that paid into them.

You are willing to pay for an ILLEGAL freeloader, but want American Citizens to tear up cards they have EARNED and PAID into for years.

Is that the essence of lobotomized liberal logic or what?

But the alliteration was really cool.....

[RAZOR]

Originally Posted by Bartruff1

I can just see their red faces with the veins pulsing....I also suspect they get their information from Faux News and talk radio...I also suspect they will continue to take advantage of the AARP Lobby....now if they would tear up their Social Security and Medicare Cards and refuse to receive the benefits, I would really be impressed. The thing that really pisses me off about our "system" is that I have to pay for the freaking fat people...the smokers...the drunks and the dopers... I don't mind paying for kids even illegal ones....

It stilling takes reasoning to form an opinion, and to think people who have not paid into the program is more deserving than those who have paid their entire life is at best bassackwards.
And why stop at fat people,smokers,drunks and dopers? How about teens they are proportionately in more car accidents, then their is the evil motorcyclist, 90% sexually transmitted AIDS is male homosexuals, single parent homes produce more crime, poverty, very draining on our economy, and the elderly, a great deal is spent in the last couple years of life, whack those years off and save a bundle.

[cobra de capell]

This entire thread is about how people have conducted their lives over time - those that have made the right decisions, personally and professionally, have worked within the system should enjoy system benefits to the max. Those that have not contributed should be at the back of the line waiting for health care, etc. - but, they should in time get health care based on how much those that pay for it want to provide to them - it's welfare, at best.

Obama wants to equalize the playing field - everyone gets the same, regardless. That means that the 47 million people, including illegals, that have not contributed would join the system on an equal basis with those that have contributed for decades - that fact would slow down the entire delivery system and result in rationing - there are simply not sufficient family doctors to allow direct access to another 47 million people.

Any opinion that supports the Obama plan is nonsensical, at best and borders on insanity. Obama can't even get Democrats to support his plan in sufficient numbers to vote for his plan. If they do, most of them had better kiss their political career goodbye - Thanks God for small favors.

As an aside, whacking all liberals at birth would produce the greatest savings of all, not that that would be a good thing to do.

[Bartruff1]

Originally Posted by RAZOR

It stilling takes reasoning to form an opinion, and to think people who have not paid into the program is more deserving than those who have paid their entire life is at best bassackwards.
And why stop at fat people,smokers,drunks and dopers? How about teens they are proportionately in more car accidents, then their is the evil motorcyclist, 90% sexually transmitted AIDS is male homosexuals, single parent homes produce more crime, poverty, very draining on our economy, and the elderly, a great deal is spent in the last couple years of life, whack those years off and save a bundle.

I think you may have something to build off here....and I believe the various insurance companies and financial instutions take those factors into account....but you have to start somewhere to hold people accountable for their bad choices and I would start with the fat people....I see kids (0-16) as victims and investments... assuming the cost of keeping them healthy is cheaper...and besides it is what Jesus would do !!!

[Bartruff1]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

So, what's 'Faux' about Fox News? You would do well to listen up - Fox is providing a fair and balanced view 24/7. Seniors are listening to Fox and talk radio with the points being made coming right from pending bills.

And Sara Palin is going to be the leader of the Free World....

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

Obama wants to equalize the playing field - everyone gets the same, regardless.

Not just Obama, every liberal that has ever held office. They have taken the words "equal opportunity" and contrived them to mean "equal entitlements." Because free enterprise in a capitalistic society won't give away healthcare, and because 47 million are now without, enter the US Government under liberal rule. Every time a liberal administration gets into office, the first thing they do is start spending money on social programs and expanding the footprint of "government." Its yet another attempt to reduce and EQUALIZE all of the hard working Americans to the lowest common denominator of the unemployed slob living a welfare mentality. And with that social equalization in place they get one step closer to a socialist regime. Now ask yourselves, how many idiot 20-somethings even understand all this enough to consider it when voting?

[RAZOR]

Originally Posted by Bartruff1

I think you may have something to build off here....and I believe the various insurance companies and financial instutions take those factors into account....but you have to start somewhere to hold people accountable for their bad choices and I would start with the fat people....I see kids (0-16) as victims and investments... assuming the cost of keeping them healthy is cheaper...and besides it is what Jesus would do !!!

Liberals seem to see everyone as a victim. Thats what Marx would do