NASCAR to fuel injection?

[fsstnotch]

It's about damn time!

BRISTOL, Tenn. -- NASCAR is researching the possibility of moving from engines with carburetors to fuel injection.

Officials met with top engine builders from organizations earlier this month to discuss the move of that technology and others that would make cars more fuel efficient and more like cars on the manufacturer showroom floor.

Manufacturers switched fully from carburetors to fuel injection in the 1980s.

No timetable has been set for when fuel injection could be used, but Toyotas Lee White said his company could be ready to go by the 2010 opener at Daytona if NASCAR gave the go-ahead.

"I would vote for it," White said on Friday at Bristol Motor Speedway. "No question, because everyone right now is spending an absolute fortune on [carburetor technology] that has absolute zero application in real life."

White said all manufacturers need to be more conscious about the environment to survive, and he believes NASCAR needs to move more in that direction.

"Sit in the grandstands and watch these cars go into Turns 1 and Turns 3 and watch all the fuel belching out the tailpipe," he said.

White said the transition could be made easily and without great expense.

"Its something that could be implemented along with a few other things that could be discussed that could potentially reduce costs and increase the potential audience for the sport," he said.

[tcrist]

Just more computer run items for Nascar to control. I could just see someone that Nascar does not want to win a race and them shut them down by remote control.
They would probably want to control of a Nascar shutdown switch like the drag racers and monster trucks have (in case of an emergancy "of course").

Don't say that it could not happen. Nascar would control the operation and programming of the computers.

I wonder how much in kickbacks Bill France Jr would get from the computer and FI companies.

Terry

[427sharpe]

To stay relevant, you have to stay with the times. NASCAR needs FI, and smaller displacement engines to progress. An added benefit would be the demise of the restrictor plates and a return to racing on the superspeedways.

[Dan40]

Would racing actual real production cars solve the problem? Too easy?

[tcrist]

I for one would like to see them go back to grass roots racing. Stock body shaped cars. No wings, spoilers, front air dams and such. Although, with all of the safety features that the cars have now.
Of course I am old school. The new generations watching today do not understand old school. They were brought up in a different time (of course). I guess racing does need to change with the times just like everything else.
What is going to happen though when all of the eco-nuts try to stop racing because it is bad for the environment. Do we just shut it down because that is what they want not us?

Terry

[Don]

FI might be an approach to eliminating restrictor plate racing while at the same time being able to control the speeds.

Increasing the fuel mileage would change the race/pit stop strategy , for the better......racing to the end

[fsstnotch]

Terry, I'd love to see it too. I'd love to see ACTUAL cars with cages and such.. but that will never happen.

I'd like to lose the splitters and spoilers, Fuel injection, no restrictor, let the teams be more innovative, lose the lucky dog, lose the 10 lap cautions, lose the rough driving penalties unless they are seriously blatant. There should be a difference between rough and agressively trying to win.

[Don]

A number of articles using Google search: Fuel Injection & NASCAR, such as:

A much-needed injection
Wed, August 19, 2009
NASCAR finally thinking of updating its engines

By DEAN MCNULTY

Could it be that NASCAR finally is willing to dive into the deep end of the motor racing gene pool by developing a new engine design in time for the 2010 season?


http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/Sports/M...09111-sun.html

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by fsstnotch

It's about damn time!

BRISTOL, Tenn. -- NASCAR is researching the possibility of moving from engines with carburetors to fuel injection.

1)Officials met with top engine builders from organizations earlier this month to discuss the move of that technology and others that would make cars more fuel efficient and more like cars on the manufacturer showroom floor.

2)Manufacturers switched fully from carburetors to fuel injection in the 1980s.

3)No timetable has been set for when fuel injection could be used, but Toyotas Lee White said his company could be ready to go by the 2010 opener at Daytona if NASCAR gave the go-ahead.

4)"I would vote for it," White said on Friday at Bristol Motor Speedway. "No question, because everyone right now is spending an absolute fortune on [carburetor technology] that has absolute zero application in real life."

5)White said all manufacturers need to be more conscious about the environment to survive, and he believes NASCAR needs to move more in that direction.

6)"Sit in the grandstands and watch these cars go into Turns 1 and Turns 3 and watch all the fuel belching out the tailpipe," he said.

White said the transition could be made easily and without great expense.

7)"Its something that could be implemented along with a few other things that could be discussed that could potentially reduce costs and increase the potential audience for the sport," he said.

1)"More like the cars on the showroom floor"?What planet is he on?
2)Detroit was about 10 years behind the curve on that one.
3)Does anyone think the other makes are going to let Toyota run a "wrung-out" FI system while they are still on carbs?
4)Like NASCAR has a "real life application".THis comment is absurd at best.
5)If NASBORE is looking to FI to save it's "bacon"-it's already too late.
6)So what?
7)Again,if they are looking at FI to increase audience share,they are really screwed.

A computer run fuel management system is a "Pandora's box".

[Don]

But, there still is a following, one example being tonight @ Bristol. 160,000 fans at a high banked 1/2 mile track, sold out for the 56th consecutive time. Granted, every track is not a sell out and Bristol has it's own mystique. I doubt those attending really care if the engine has FI or a carb or the cars all look the same. Nothing like short track racing on a Saturday night under the lights, with Mark Martin having the pole, 15.414 seconds @ 124.484 MPH

http://www.bristolmotorspeedway.com/

[Ronbo]

I'm not sure who Detroit was 10 yrs. behind.

GM offered FI on the vette starting in 1964. Later it was brought back in 1982 (cross fire). The Japanese and German cars as well as Italian and English all went FI right around the same time to meet emission and mileage requirements.

I don't see where clinging to obsolete induction systems somehow benefits the sport.

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by Ronbo

1)I'm not sure who Detroit was 10 yrs. behind.

2)GM offered FI on the vette starting in 1964. 3)Later it was brought back in 1982 (cross fire). 4)The Japanese and German cars as well as Italian and English all went FI right around the same time to meet emission and mileage requirements.

5)I don't see where clinging to obsolete induction systems somehow benefits the sport.

1)Everyone
2)And it was a 100% COMPLETE joke..Confirmed by GM's switch back to Q-jets.
3)"Mis-fire"?The laughing stock of fuel management systems.With the exception of the late 50's-early 60's mechanical FI,"Cross-fire"was THE worst FI system EVER designed.
4)Sorry,the Z-car had a Bosch FI system on it in 1975.
5)And changing to FI is going to help them-how?

[rustyBob]

NASCAR dosent need FI. They need to get rid of the 4 car teams.1owner,1driver,1crew chief,1car that will bring in more owners and make it harder to win races/championchips and the guy with the most points at the end of the season wins the big trophy.

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by rustyBob

NASCAR dosent need FI. .

Agreed.................

[fsstnotch]

The switch to FI is beneficial because they have been developing OLD technology forever now! This technology benefits everyone in the industry. Same will go for FI. It benefits the Auto industry to further develop the technology.

[tcrist]

Sounds good, but what part of a race car can you find on your street car? NOTHING!!!!!!

These race cars have nothing in commen with the cars that they are supposed to represent and haven't for years.

Unlesss you are going to make the street cars with 700+ HP and full race suspension.

Terry

[Ronbo]

Not so much a joke as having the same flaw carbs did, it was mechanical.

Since sacrificing half the passenger compartment for the vacum tube computer management system in 1964 proved unpopular and expensive it was unable to self-adjust. Not much different than the high maintenance multi carb systems that people still try to convince themselves are better.

The "mis-fire" while poorly received, was actually quite good if you could find someone who had the ability to set it up correctly. The dealer mechanics were 99.9% of the problem with this system, unlike today's where the mechanic only has to read the blinks from the check engine light and know what the sensor looks like.

LSI integrated circuits didn't come along till the mid 80's so the electronics just wasn't there to make it cost effective (or much more efficient). The Bosch system, being from '75 would at best have had rudementary fuel management.

Detroit also offered four wheel disc brakes on the vette starting 1963, the Z finally offered them in when? Around 1985 or so? Camero and Firebird also had the option starting 1976. Ford finally got around to it around the same year (Lincoln mkIII).

But we've been down this path before...

[fsstnotch]

Originally Posted by tcrist

Sounds good, but what part of a race car can you find on your street car? NOTHING!!!!!!


Terry

Hey, the concept is the same!

But believe it or not, running FI on a race car can be very beneficial to street cars as well. SOOOOO much money goes into race cars in the R&D department to make the cars reliable and such and that R&D can and will be passed along to the real world.

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by fsstnotch

The switch to FI is beneficial because they have been developing OLD technology forever now! This technology benefits everyone in the industry. Same will go for FI. It benefits the Auto industry to further develop the technology.

But the "old technology"still works.And at WOT(where these cars are 99% of the time),FI offers NO advantage.ANd please don't say"Fuel milage".

After a little homework,GM came out with TPI(their FIRST realistic FI)in 1985.10 years after Datsun.Not to de-rail the topic but this is just another example of why GM/Detroit is in the mess it is today.

[tcrist]

Originally Posted by fsstnotch

Hey, the concept is the same!

Yep, they at least still have four wheels

Terry