Good Move Mr. President....you clown!

[Danr55]

Here are the final numbers on the cash for clunkers, way to go O' bama

What a bargain for us taxpayers !

Did anyone run the numbers ? ? ?

I guess I must be on the wrong page…
A vehicle at 15 mpg and 12,000 miles per year uses 800 gallons a year of gasoline.
A vehicle at 25 mpg and 12,000 miles per year uses 480 gallons a year.
So, the average clunker transaction will reduce US gasoline consumption by 320 gallons per year.
They claim 700,000 vehicles – so that's 224 million gallons / year.
That equates to a bit over 5 million barrels of oil. 5 million barrels of oil is about ¼ of one day's US consumption. And, 5 million barrels of oil costs about $350 million dollars at $75/bbl. (high compared to current price)
So, we all contributed to spending $3 billion to save $350 million.
How good a deal was that???
They'll probably do a great job with health care though!!

[Excaliber]

Savings gas was only one aspect of the program, and it's a good one. Saving jobs and stimulating the economy was another aspect. Did it work? Tough call on that...

[SunDude]

I hate to say it, but I think your numbers are a bit off.

One barrel of crude oil = 42 gallons of oil which yields 19.5 gallons of gasoline.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_g...l_of_crude_oil

Therefore, saving 320 gallons of gas per vehicle per year, times 700K vehicles, would save 224 million gallons of gas per year, as you state. However, this equates to 11.49 million barrels of crude oil per year (not 5 million barrels).

At $75/BBL this represents an annual savings of $861.5 million.

At this rate the government's $3 billion C4C outlay would be recouped in 3.5 years.

Now what's the average useful life of these new, more fuel-efficient vehicles in the national fleet? 10 years? 15 years? 20 years?

[RedBarchetta]

Originally Posted by SunDude

At this rate the government's $3 billion C4C outlay would be recouped in 3.5 years.

Recouped by who?!? The government isn't going to get that $3 billion back, and they have no incentives to do so. It was a handout, plain and simple, at the cost to taxpayers. And it only supported predominantly one primary industry. Was a sham from the start and short-lived to boot. Typical Democratic solution (band-aid) to a deep gunshot wound.

Don't get me started. I already sent Congressman Wilson a thank you e-mail for having the balls to call a spade a spade. He's my new hero.

[Excaliber]

I think characterizing it as "one" industry is a bit miss leading. The auto industry has HUGE tentactles that reach deep into our financial base on many levels.

As far as stimulus money goes I am receiving income indirectly tied to some of it from other sources in my neighborhood that are receiving income directly tied to it. Those sources of income, for me, would not be working if it were not for stimulus funds being appropriated. So for me, at least, I see the plan as very real and really working!

[DWRAT]

Originally Posted by SunDude

I hate to say it, but I think your numbers are a bit off.

One barrel of crude oil = 42 gallons of oil which yields 19.5 gallons of gasoline.

Therefore, saving 320 gallons of gas per vehicle per year, times 700K vehicles, would save 224 million gallons of gas per year, as you state. However, this equates to 11.49 million barrels of crude oil per year (not 5 million barrels).

At $75/BBL this represents an annual savings of $861.5 million.

At this rate the government's $3 billion C4C outlay would be recouped in 3.5 years.

Now what's the average useful life of these new, more fuel-efficient vehicles in the national fleet? 10 years? 15 years? 20 years?

1 barrel of oil Will make more then 19.5 gallons of fuel.
Your facts are how a barrel is used in the USA.
If we were only after gasoline it would go much further.

"One barrel of crude oil contains 42 gallons
About 46% of each barrel of crude oil is refined into automobile gasoline
In the US and Canada an average of 3 gallons of crude oil are consumed per person each day
The US imports about 50% of its required crude oil and about 50% of that amount comes from OPEC countries
Product Refined Gallons/Barrel
Gasoline 19.3
Distillate Fuel Oil (Inc. Home Heating and Diesel Fuel) 9.83
Kerosene Type Jet Fuel 4.24
Residual Fuel Oil 2.10
Petroleum Coke 2.10
Liquified Refinery Gases 1.89
Still Gas 1.81
Asphalt and Road Oil 1.13
Petrochemical Feed Supplies 0.97
Lubricants 0.46
Kerosene 0.21
Waxes 0.04
Aviation Fuel 0.04
Other Products 0.34
Processing Gain 2.47"

So your cals are not accurate either.

[Bob In Ct]

Dan:
How about a post on what the previous "clown" did for his friends on Wall Street. It wasn't millions, it was billions and billions.

Bob

[SunDude]

Originally Posted by RedBarchetta

Recouped by who?!? The government isn't going to get that $3 billion back...

True enough. I was just trying to respond using Dan's original premise. He stated that the government spent $3 billion in taxpayer money to save only $350 million, implying some sort of payback calculation. Firstly, he did not point out that this was an ANNUAL savings. Secondly, he didn't calculate the savings correctly. I've edited my post to add a link to the source of my crude-to-gasoline conversion, for everyone's reference.

[RedBarchetta]

Originally Posted by Bob In Ct

Dan:
How about a post on what the previous "clown" did for his friends on Wall Street. It wasn't millions, it was billions and billions.

Bob

Bob, you must be referring to Bill Clinton (along with Democratic Senator Byrd), who ensured that Glass-Steagall was overturned, thus allowing safe banking institutions to suddenly operate like Wall Street hedge funds? Yeah, I believe that's the previous clown you are referring to. And all the efforts of the Bush administration to "right the cart" wouldn't be allowed under a democratically controlled Congress. Study the history, my man!

Keep 'em coming, people. I have a response for pretty much all of this crap.

-Dean

P.S. The Republican CA congressman from my current residence, Yorba Linda, whom I voted for, ought to be tarred, feathered and stockcaded in our town square. There is a lot of blame to go around to all parties, that is for sure. What's sad to think is that this sort of behaviour is being repeated country-wide...he was just a doofus and bragged (and subsequently got caught as a result). I hope the gal that represented the utility gets hammered by the Feds and squeals that her bosses put her up to it all. Should make great theater.

[SunDude]

OK then, look at it this way. The C4C program has saved 224 million gallons of gas per year which can be used to power your Cobras!

[RedBarchetta]

Originally Posted by SunDude

OK then, look at it this way. The C4C program has saved 224 million gallons of gas per year which can be used to power your Cobras!

Now we see eye to eye!

[RodKnock]

Did anyone mention the carbon (or lack thereof) that is emitted by the old cars versus the new cars?

[RedBarchetta]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Did anyone mention the carbon (or lack thereof) that is emitted by the old cars versus the new cars?

Oh gee, Rod, are we going to stay on the health care debate or be competely sidetracked by the government's latest ponzi scheme, aka "Cap and Trade" where markets will be created out of thin air to trade carbon credits to and fro, thus creating "real jobs" to back the phantom green effort?!? Yeah, right. Cap and Trade = govt tax. The sooner we all get that, the easier it will be to understand.

[computerworks]

Mod Note... moved to the Lounge

[Mulv]

This is not exactly a car discussion, good call

Evidently there are a lot of people who have no idea as to how businesses work and sales in particular. These are people who read very little apparently as they have never heard of an auto manufacturer offering rebates to move product that is either undesireable, of questionable quality or just flat overproduced and thus overstocked. In other words, basically every American car maker has rebates and incentives to move product, government owned manufacturers like Volkswagen do this as well. Why should the companies that we control not do the same. What you should be asking is - How stupid is a person who takes on a $30,500- debt for a new car when they thought that they could not afford $35K?

Why any of this would be a point of contention is beyond me except that this country is so polarized due to mean spiritedness and ignorance that one side wants the other to fail regardless of the cost to all of us.

We are in a mess and for a reason that is beyond me you have someone who has stood up and is not only trying to fix the mess, but is taking the abuse of rather less than educated people who have forgotten how this happened. Blame Bill Clinton if you like, it was a Republican House and Senate that deregulated derivatives and other risky financial forms. Blame Obama if you wish but he did not get us into a stupid ,senseless unwinnable war in a country no one gives a hoot about. Blame Bush if you want, he was really too stupid to be president and got the job by default so lesser members of the government had control.

It is easy to blame everyone but yourself.

We are the reason this happened. All of us were celebrating the ridiculous appreciation in our homes. All of us were jumping for joy at our stock portfolios. All of us were buying gizmos and junk that we didn't need. Few of us were looking at the obvious-- If a starter home is $650K and Johnny makes $50K a year, how many years will Johnny have to work to pay back the almost $2 million in debt. Answer: until he is 110. A correction was apparent and given and if that wiped you out then WTF is wrong with you? Too Greedy? sense of entitlement to the toys of the rich when you neither worked nor studied enough to have their incomes?

Please try to remember the time when all Americans hoped for success both for themselves and for the country and when they were not deliberately negative because someone they disliked was in the White House.

Grow up and get over it and do your part to help.

[BeanCounter]

Mulv,

Blame yourself my ass. Not all of us did one or any of the things you mentioned. We did the right things and now this asshole wants to come along and punish us for doing things the right way. Well he can kiss my ass. I'll quit working and do everything I can to see that he gets as little of the fruits of my labor as he can. I'm tired of this ****. Inouye has sent the last of my dollars to some crappy little island where they have no work ethic and are proud of it (another headline that has grated on me today).

[Mulv]

Originally Posted by BeanCounter

Mulv,
Well he can kiss my ass. I'll quit working and do everything I can to see that he gets as little of the fruits of my labor as he can. ).

I am sure that the government will fall if you quit working. You display exactly the attitude that I point out in my post...
Very mature...

maybe you should join this guy:

http://www.huntingtonnews.net/letters/le37000.html

[Excaliber]

I might need some of those fruits of your labor Bernie, in the form of taxes, so please, keep chugging away, for me!

[BeanCounter]

Wrong way Ernie. Since I'm not making any money you will have to send some to me besides my social security. I love it! Better sell that Cobra, I got a big screen to buy.

[BeanCounter]

Nice comeback there Mulv. Where'd you get that? PeeWee Herman.