How does police radar work? - Page 2

Dan40 · #21 (**permalink**) 10-02-2009, 11:53 AM

I was in traffic court with/for my teenage son [speeding]. One offender tried to use the "ticket Book" to fight his citation. He said, "A telephone pole was clocked at 90 mph by radar." The judge said, "Were you driving a telephone pole?" He said a large rock was clocked at 75mph!" Judge, "Were you driving a rock?" "A TREE was clocked at 84mph!" I don't suppose you were driving a tree either?"

I'm thinking, "Give it up fella, he's is going to nail you. The guy changed his plea to "No contest," and the judge gave him a minimum fine.

Wayne Maybury · #22 (**permalink**) 10-05-2009, 09:20 AM

I drove through that 70 kmh construction zone yesterday afternoon at 80 to 85 kmh. Cars were going past me like I was standing still but I had a pretty good line behind me also.

Still no court date.

Wayne

Wayne Maybury · #23 (**permalink**) 11-30-2010, 11:48 AM

I finally received my court date. It is May 9, 2011 which will be 21 months after I was stopped. They seem to want to negotiate a settlement as they are giving me the opportunity to change my plea, but I am going to go for all or nothing. I will let you know how I make out May 9th or 10th.

Wayne

VRM · #24 (**permalink**) 11-30-2010, 01:46 PM

Wayne,
I would still get pics of where he was sitting, and try to get it at the same time of day, and in the same light conditions.

You were following other cars and being passed by the truck - sounds like at least a two lane road? How closely were you following the other cars - would you have ended up in their back seat if they were going the speed limit and you were speeding? And were you in the 'slow' lane behind the other cars?

What colour was the other truck, and what colour is your Explorer? Could the officer confuse the two, especially at the time of day you were pulled over? I would take a picture of your car from the front, and a dualie that is the same colour as the one that passed you, and shrink each to about 2cm square. This is what he might see in his mirror - and at the same time he is looking up to see what the speed display on the radar says.

I would also prepare a simple set of pictures - show the road with all lanes, show where you were, and where the cars in front of you were, and where the truck was, as well as where the cruiser was. The second pic should show the truck accelerating past you and pulling in front of you, and the last pic should show the cop pulling in behind you probably thinking you were the dualie, and the other cars in front of you.

What Trularin said about line-of-sight is very 'tru' - his line of sight is limited - possibly to just his mirror, and radar may be somewhat compromised also. It sounds like his car was pointed in the same direction you were traveling. Ask him where he parked his car, and how he was angled. Ask if he was hidden behind anything.

Ask him what he was doing while he waited for speeders to set off the alarm. If he says he was looking in the mirror the whole time, follow up with a question about him being sure he didn't answer radio calls, drink coffee, shift in his seat, or anything that may cause him to take his eyes away from the mirror for even a split-second.

70kph is around 65 feet per second - that is a fair bit of travel, but 115kph is around 105fps or so. Easy enough for a guy going that fast to pass you and pull in front of you in a couple of seconds.

You said you were cited for the speed limit in the construction zone - this is good. If you are asked if you were speeding you can truthfully say that you were slowing down to comply with the change in speed limit because of the construction, and this also helps back up anything about construction equipment being present.

Not sure what the rules are in Canada, but in the US I would send a registered letter to the officer requesting the serial number, model, and calibration info of the radar gun. It helps you if he does not provide it, and it may show him you are serious about pursuing this enough for him to drop it. Course, it could also piss him off.

Hope that helps. I fought a red light ticket recently (won it), but it still cost me $75 in hearing costs (in MA you do not get those costs back even if you win).

Steve

SP01715 · #25 (**permalink**) 11-30-2010, 02:08 PM

I have never seen anyone win a radar ticket in court. As a matter of fact I have only seen a few people beat any type of ticket for a moving violation. Good luck...

It may be different in Canada though...

VRM · #26 (**permalink**) 11-30-2010, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SP01715

I have never seen anyone win a radar ticket in court. As a matter of fact I have only seen a few people beat any type of ticket for a moving violation. Good luck...

It may be different in Canada though...

I've beaten more than a few (lost a few, too). It helps to know that radar is a very imperfect tool. And being able to explain complicated science in simple terms helps also.
I also beat Lidar once - in my Corvette

(lost in my F150 though).

scaffold · #27 (**permalink**) 11-30-2010, 04:09 PM

I heard long ago that radar picks out the largest vehicle but I don't know that for a fact. I too have received many speeding tickets over the years (50,000 miles per year for 17 years) and most every one I got I deserved but the last one in Greenville/Spartanburg, SC. I went through the whole process--even wrote the Governor a letter to no avail. I was there to scout out a location for an additional branch of my business. In the final analysis, I declined to open a new branch there as well as I closed the existing branch I already had in Columbia, SC. With the loss of existing jobs at the Columbia location and the loss of upcoming jobs at the new location as well as the loss of state taxes, I hope it's the most expensive $150 SC ever screwed someone out of. don't get mad---get even!

scaffold

Wayne Maybury · #28 (**permalink**) 12-01-2010, 08:21 AM

VRM This occurred entering a construction zone on a major divided highway which has 2 lanes in each direction. I had been following 3 or 4 other cars for several kms at about 110 kmh in a 100 kmh zone. When we approached the construction zone, all of the cars including me in my Explorer began to slow down. As far as I know, no one jumped on the brakes, everyone simply released the gas pedal. I believe that I was about half way between the highway speed of 110 kmh and the final work-zone speed of 80kmh when I theoritically entered the construction zone.

Just as I entered the speed zone in my red Explorer a white duel wheel Dodge pickup passed me. This construction zone was being changed/modified at the time so we had to sort of zig-zag to the right, them immediately to the left as we entered the zone. I was in the right lane and the pickup was passing me in the left lane. The police cruiser was parked on the right shoulder behind some construction material about 200 or 300 feet inside the zone with the radar unit mounted on the left rear window. The only way the officer could see the oncoming traffic would be by looking at the left mirror.

As soon as the driver of the pickup saw the police cruiser, he immediately jumped on the brakes but by that time he had already passed me. He cut in front of me as soon as he could and the police cruiser then followed this line of cars and trucks for the next minute or two. The driver of the pickup knew he had been caught as he kept looking in his mirriors waiting to see what the police officer was going to do. My wife and I were laughing as this guy kept peeking at his mirrors in anticipation of getting pulled over.

Finally when we exited the construction zone, the officer stopped me instead of the pickup. I tried to explain to him that he had stopped the wrong vehicle but he basically told me to tell it to the judge which I intend to do. I like your idea of making a diagram outlining the position of the various vehicles as well as the police car and the construction equipment, etc. I admit that I was exceeding the speed limit (just like everyone else that I was following) but the fastest vehicle was the pickup as he was passing me.

Maybe the officer has been transferred to another district and will not even show up in court.

Wayne

SP01715 · #29 (**permalink**) 12-01-2010, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VRM

I've beaten more than a few (lost a few, too). It helps to know that radar is a very imperfect tool. And being able to explain complicated science in simple terms helps also.
I also beat Lidar once - in my Corvette

(lost in my F150 though).

Back in my Law Enforcement days I watched a guy go through a defense of a radar ticket for almost two hours. The guy went from the start of radar technology to the present. It took about 30 seconds when he was done for the judge to find him guilty. It was kind of funny, but a huge waste of time.

VRM · #30 (**permalink**) 12-02-2010, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SP01715

Back in my Law Enforcement days I watched a guy go through a defense of a radar ticket for almost two hours. The guy went from the start of radar technology to the present. It took about 30 seconds when he was done for the judge to find him guilty. It was kind of funny, but a huge waste of time.

Yep - you have about 5 minutes. I come up with 10 questions, and then eliminate the 5 worst, and then draw up a picture or three showing where everything was.

The best I know of was from guy I met at a car show a couple of years ago - he mentioned he got a ticket for chirping a tyre (display of speed) and said he was hoping the cop would not show up. I told him (half jokingly) to ask the cop if he had ever squeaked a sneaker on a basketball court, and how fast he thinks he was going when he did. He left a message on my machine a year or so ago saying he did just that and he won.

RAO-3 · #31 (**permalink**) 12-03-2010, 09:50 AM

Up to you how you want to handle it, but maybe you could talk to the prosecutor at the court just before court is in session and plead it down to a lower offense?

I haven't had a speeding ticket in a long time, but several people that I know have been successful in handling it in this manner.

Good luck!

Ray

Wayne Maybury · #32 (**permalink**) 12-06-2010, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAO-3

Up to you how you want to handle it, but maybe you could talk to the prosecutor at the court just before court is in session and plead it down to a lower offense?

I haven't had a speeding ticket in a long time, but several people that I know have been successful in handling it in this manner.

Good luck!

Ray

I may do that since I do readily admit that I was going about 90 as I entered the 70 zone.

Wayne

SP01715 · #33 (**permalink**) 12-06-2010, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VRM

Yep - you have about 5 minutes. I come up with 10 questions, and then eliminate the 5 worst, and then draw up a picture or three showing where everything was.

The best I know of was from guy I met at a car show a couple of years ago - he mentioned he got a ticket for chirping a tyre (display of speed) and said he was hoping the cop would not show up. I told him (half jokingly) to ask the cop if he had ever squeaked a sneaker on a basketball court, and how fast he thinks he was going when he did. He left a message on my machine a year or so ago saying he did just that and he won.

Traffic court was always interesting. I never worked traffic because I hated writing tickets and dealing with people at accident scenes, but I found myself there once in a while when someone talked their way into a ticket. The only reason the guy on the radar ticket got so much time was because it was a judge pro tem. The regular judge would have stopped the guy after a few minutes.

RET_COP · #34 (**permalink**) 12-06-2010, 04:54 PM

Ran radar for 25 years, big, small, side mounted, dash mounted, laser, you name it. Bobcat hit it on the head, The radar pickes up the strongest signal which most of the time is the largest surface area. And in close dense traffic this can be problematic for us to figure out what vehicle it is reading. A seasoned cop can cut through the obvious and make a statistically correct decision. A seasoned cop will HOPEFULLY let a possible error go, as there is always another big fish to catch. I did not get hung up on the average "over the speed limit cars". I had a job to do... but there was always a really crazy driver on the road, and that was the one that flew by you when you were giving a ticket out to a mild speeder. Now that pissed me off. I hold the record for recording the fastest speed OVER the posted limit. 108 MPH . I never caught that motorcycle.

Lou

Wayne Maybury · #35 (**permalink**) 12-07-2010, 07:36 AM

Lou

When I was much younger, I got more than my share of speeding tickets.

Of course I tried to talk my way out of them or politely asked the officer if he could give me a break, etc. I never said that I wasn't guilty, if I was guilty as I figured that would just piss off the officer.

In this case, I know that the pickup was going faster than me as he passed me and then applied the brakes as he changed lanes and cut in front of me. I am relatively sure that the officer's view was limited so he probably did not see the pickup therefore he assumed that I was the one speeding. I feel that I had no choice but to plead not guilty. The judge may, or may not agree with me but at least I will have my chance in court.

What really got me was the officer saying to me that the radar told him that I was the one speeding. My impression was (and you have confirmed this) that the radar will pick up the fastest moving vehicle or possibly the speed of the biggest vehicle. In this case, both were the dual-wheel pickup.

Wayne

RET_COP · #36 (**permalink**) 12-07-2010, 02:57 PM

Wayne, Good Luck in traffic court. You could plead good drivers record and in several states this ticket can and will be filed. It usually is a first ticket kind of situation.
The radar cannot tell the police officer anything, it merely recorded the speed of a vehicle in the cone of the radar, which is rather large and CANNOT pinpoint an individual vehicle with any certainty like a laser can. Its up to him to decipher the situation which you can bring up some doubt. The rear view mirror vision is a good point. Unless the officer has a bad track record with the judge, he will usually trump the rebuttal from the accused without a lawyer.
With a real charming and sound argument, and an officer with some doubt about what he determined ( and smile and say hi to him if you see him in court)

, may agree with you.
Lou

Wayne Maybury · #37 (**permalink**) 12-10-2010, 09:15 AM

Thanks for the encouragement Lou.

I had my share of tickets many years ago but I have only had one speeding ticket in the past 10 years. About 9 or 10 years ago I was rushing to catch a flight and I had no idea that a radar trap was set up on the entrance to that airport. Since then the only thing I have had was one parking ticket until now. I drive a lot so I have been lucky not to have had more tickets but I do have a very good record.

I honestly think that the officer did not have a good view of the situation. He had to pick somone and in my opinion, he got the wrong guy. I hope the judge sees it my way. My wife was with me so it will be 2 against 1, for whatever that's worth.

Wayne