Senate committee rejects 'public option' amendment

[Scott S]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

. Or had a major health problem and found out their insurance was cancelled. There are a bunch of reasons why we need reform.

47 years ago I slipped on the planks from my way back from the outhouse and got a big sliver stuck in my left palm that nobody noticed until my hand swelled up and I got sick with blood poisoning. I spent 10 days in the hospital and had a newly developed surgery along with the new wonder drug(penicillin)IV administered to save my hand.

2 years later(I was 6) I had my appendix removed, that same year I broke my left arm.

The summer between 2nd and 3rd grade I had a softball sized Bakers tumor removed from behind my left knee and got infected with Scarlet Fever during the surgery and spent 30 days in a hospital while being injected every 8 hours with the new wonder drug Ampicillon..

I broke my left arm again when I was 12, at 16 I had my tonsils removed with complications that turned a overnight stay into a week.

Since all of this I have had 1 knee surgery, 3 shoulder surgeries, and my gall bladder removed.

4 years ago I was sitting at State controlled road repair project and was rear ended.... the gal failed to see the half dozen or so notices but the 60 ton log truck I had just loaded didn't have any trouble stopping just behind her...

Whiplash can be very real, I suffered for a couple of months before I realized I need to turn in my >EXTRA TOUGH LOGGER CARD< and get some help. I had a new procedure done to isolate a some of nerves to control the pain. It worked but it triggered a very rare symptom for men....

I have been diagnosed with fibromyalgia which can be be very painful. I described it best as if you have ever split a cord or two of wood or done several dozen crunches you might feel some discomfort... it's kinda like that but even your toenails hurt.


All this is considered when I apply for health care coverage for my employees, just because of my unfortunate health history I have to pay far above the market to cover some of the best of my industry.

It's down to this,l I can pay my guys about 5-6 bucks more a hour it they weren't penalized by my health history.

THIS REPUBLICAN HAS HAD IT WITH THE SYSTEM WE HAVE>>>>

[Scott S]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

. Or had a major health problem and found out their insurance was cancelled. There are a bunch of reasons why we need reform.

47 years ago I slipped on the planks from my way back from the outhouse and got a big sliver stuck in my left palm that nobody noticed until my hand swelled up and I got sick with blood poisoning. I spent 10 days in the hospital and had a newly developed surgery along with the new wonder drug(penicillin)IV administered to save my hand.

2 years later(I was 6) I had my appendix removed, that same year I broke my left arm.

The summer between 2nd and 3rd grade I had a softball sized Bakers tumor removed from behind my left knee and got infected with Scarlet Fever during the surgery and spent 30 days in a hospital while being injected every 8 hours with the new wonder drug Ampicillon..

I broke my left arm again when I was 12, at 16 I had my tonsils removed with complications that turned a overnight stay into a week.

Since all of this I have had 1 knee surgery, 3 shoulder surgeries, and my gall bladder removed.

4 years ago I was sitting at State controlled road repair project and was rear ended.... the gal failed to see the half dozen or so notices but the 60 ton log truck I had just loaded didn't have any trouble stopping just behind her...

Whiplash can be very real, I suffered for a couple of months before I realized I need to turn in my >EXTRA TOUGH LOGGER CARD< and get some help. I had a new procedure done to isolate a some of nerves to control the pain. It worked but it triggered a very rare symptom for men....

I have been diagnosed with fibromyalgia which can be be very painful. I described it best as if you have ever split a cord or two of wood or done several dozen crunches you might feel some discomfort... it's kinda like that but even your toenails hurt.


All this is considered when I apply for health care coverage for my employees, just because of my unfortunate health history I have to pay far above the market to cover some of the best of my industry.

It's down to this,l I can pay my guys about 5-6 bucks more a hour it they weren't penalized by my health history.

THIS REPUBLICAN HAS HAD IT WITH THE SYSTEM WE HAVE>>>>

[VRM]

Scott,
Is there any resentment from your crew that you are costing them a fair chunk of change? Do they even know?

So what would you do? From an insurers standpoint you are a terrible risk (I know you don't need me to tell you that), so what should your rates look like compared to theirs?

What sort of changes would you like to see? Should you pay the extra for your coverage yourself? The DNC says that is not fair (not true - being responsible for yourself is fair) and that people are being wiped out financially because of medical bills for situations like yours (true - folks without coverage have to pay for those bills themselves, or some of them default 'cause they can't afford the $300,000 for treatment so we pick up the tab).

So what should we do? What/who should be covered, and how does it get paid for?

Steve

[Ron61]

Steve,

Both you and Scott have good points, but I still don't think anyone should be made to buy insurance or anything else the Govt. decides on. I pay all of my own medical bills and don't have insurance. I don't want to be forced to buy it as then I most likely won't be able to pay other bills and they are more important to me than having the Govt. tell me what I have to buy. Also when they force this down our throats, every person that can afford their prices will run to the doctor every time they sneeze. Many people in this area are barely making it now on their retirement and adding Insurance to their bills will cause them to lose their homes and then we will have more homeless. Also a loss of property tax, more crime which is already on the increase around here, loss of sales taxes because they won't be able to buy anything and it goes on. The argument that they force you to buy car insurance does not hold water as they don't force you to buy a car, and about 1/2 of the wrecks they have here at least one party has no insurance or drivers license. This is sort of rambling, but I just don't like being told that I have to buy something because the Govt. has decided it is good for them. Oh, and on top of that they have just tripled our water and electric rates and have sent out a paper outlining the increases for the next two years. In 2011 our rates will be more than 4 1/2 times what they are now and they are already foreclosing on people that can't pay todays rates. And these are people that lost their jobs and won't be getting them back as this area has no real employment opportunities and they will have to leave the state to find anything. So another Govt. added expense is not the answer. I wish I knew a way to overhaul the Health Care plan without a lot of poor people getting shafted, but without big tax increases I see no way. By the way, this is not meant to pick any fights or start any flame wars. Just my opinion based on what I see around here and the fact I don't believe that our Govt. has the Constitutional authority to start deciding what we will buy and when.

Ron

[Excaliber]

Ron, a public option is just one aspect of a possible health bill. That proposal would include a sliding fee based on income so it's not likely to "break" you or anybody.

In Scott's example he is paying a penalty because he is higher risk, which is similiar to people with pre-existing conditions. Steve says OK, thats reasonable for him to pay more. Maybe not. Insurance companies "Cherry Picking" or flat out denying coverage to their clients is one of the big problems we have with current health plans. They do so to aggressively. To address that make Health Care a mandate that ALL people must have it. That spreads the risk out to a larger group. Now HOW that mandate is enforced, at a State or Federal level, the cost per citizen and a myriad of other details need to be worked out.

A minimum charge per Dr. visit would be one way to keep folks out of the office for a "runny nose".

DOES the Government have the Constitutional authority to "force" you to buy insurance? Maybe, maybe not. IF not, Congress can pass an amendant making it so. It's not a major hurdle, good or bad, that's just the way it is.

[Ron61]

Ernie,

Ron, a public option is just one aspect of a possible health bill. That proposal would include a sliding fee based on income so it's not likely to "break" you or anybody.

How far does it have to slide before they actually make a workable bill? By breaking people I never meant that alone, but many are just barely making their payments now and can't afford anything else. Of course this is the same Congress that just said the Cost of Living hasn't increased and that Seniors now have more buying power than 4 years ago. But I noticed they didn't refuse their Cost Of Living Increases.

Ron

[Excaliber]

I don't know, how far do Federal Income taxes slide before they break someone?

[Ron61]

Ernie, my interpretation of slide is to go down. If Federal Taxes slid enough, no one should have to pay them. Just my idea of course.

Ron

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

This isn't about creating a welfare state or folks asking for handouts. It's about reforming health care for the benefit of all the people and bring affordable health care to those that don't have any. The number of those without is growing every day. These aren't welfare folks, there normal everyday hard working people who may have lost their job and health care along with it. Or had a major health problem and found out their insurance was cancelled. There are a bunch of reasons why we need reform.

...not ready for the rockin' chair, but when I am, I want a Harley engine on it.

Would the harley engine be for extraction of the huge amount of poop that you dispense every day?

[VRM]

Ron,
I understand your concern about being told to buy an insurance plan. Being told what to do by the government never sits well with me.

Have you looked at the MA regs on this sort of thing? Romney did up the initial plan with some (good and bad) tweaks by the legislature. There are still problems, but it also offers some interesting ideas.

One of them is that everyone will have an insurance plan or they will pay a fine (I think this is done annually - we now have to file an insurance coverage certificate with out taxes). Romneys original plan mandated that you either post a bond that would be used if health care is needed, or you are enrolled in a plan.
The plan can be anything from just basic catastrophic coverage to whatever your silver spoon can get you.

I would rather they had kept the bond option in addition to the other two.

I'm not fond of being forced to do anything like this, but too many people are abusing the system, and the taxpayers are paying for it.

Steve

[Excaliber]

...too many people are abusing the system,

Can't argue with that, but it could also be said: Too many insurance companies are abusing the system.

I suspect posting a bond would be similiar to a company carrying it's own private auto insurance. You can essentially cover yourself, BUT, you basically have to be Daddy Megabuck's to reach the level where it becomes cost effective. Those that could afford to post a bond in lieu of buying insurance would be able to afford insurance in the first place!

[Excaliber]

For those 65 or older (or there abouts) we all ready have a Governement plan, Medicare. For those who are disabled or cannot work we have a plan, Medicaid. What we need is a plan to cover those who are somewhere in between those two extremes. Regular hard working folks who have fallen on hard times for one reason or another.

While Medi whatever is not the best of plans it beats the heck out of NO plan! Even illegals have better coverage than a family who has lost their job and struggling to stay in their home. At least the illegal can go to emergency room and get basic coverage with no cost, 'cause he has no money. The "family" in question here WILL get a bill and THAT could be the straw that breaks the camels back.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

For those 65 or older (or there abouts) we all ready have a Governement plan, Medicare. For those who are disabled or cannot work we have a plan, Medicaid. What we need is a plan to cover those who are somewhere in between those two extremes. Regular hard working folks who have fallen on hard times for one reason or another.

While Medi whatever is not the best of plans it beats the heck out of NO plan! Even illegals have better coverage than a family who has lost their job and struggling to stay in their home. At least the illegal can go to emergency room and get basic coverage with no cost, 'cause he has no money. The "family" in question here WILL get a bill and THAT could be the straw that breaks the camels back.

There is always a cost - it's just that the illegal does not pay for it - we do.
I have no problem helping someone having hard times who is otherwise a contributing member of society, but I have no interest in helping someone who lives on welfare. If you want universal health care then take the money currently being used to pay for welfare and move it to a health care system.

Steve

[Excaliber]

Well that's not a bad idea! Welfare reform may in fact be the way to help defer the costs!

Step one: Treat welfare like unemployment benefits, if you don't look for work, you don't get paid! Now of course some folks won't be able to work, that's OK, have the proper guidelines setup to account for that. For those that CAN work, "no soup for you".

There's been some talk of allowing illegals to buy into a public option plan to defer the cost of their emergency room visits where they pay nothing! I'd rather see: Have them sign up and then open an investigation as to WHY they are here in the first place!

[cobra de capell]

Exc - you are starting to make sense, sort of - have you stopped drinking that nasty Indonesian Civet Coffee? I know VRM and space bill drink that stuff, daily.

[Excaliber]

More lime in the coconut maybe, it's raining today, I'm locked inside, so....

I'll be here to Friday, try the fish.

[cobra de capell]

There goes that nasty Indonesian Civet Coffee again, keep plucking that chicken.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

Exc - you are starting to make sense, sort of - have you stopped drinking that nasty Indonesian Civet Coffee? I know VRM and space bill drink that stuff, daily.

Nope - I don't drink coffee - it tastes like I would expect dirty mouldy chocolate feet to taste. So since you seem to be the expert on poop (you talk about it often enough) just exactly how nasty is that civet coffee?

So do you have anything useful to add?

[VRM]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Well that's not a bad idea! Welfare reform may in fact be the way to help defer the costs!

Step one: Treat welfare like unemployment benefits, if you don't look for work, you don't get paid! Now of course some folks won't be able to work, that's OK, have the proper guidelines setup to account for that. For those that CAN work, "no soup for you".

There's been some talk of allowing illegals to buy into a public option plan to defer the cost of their emergency room visits where they pay nothing! I'd rather see: Have them sign up and then open an investigation as to WHY they are here in the first place!

Ernie,
I'm not really thinking of reform, more like complete elimination. I would phase it out over a few years (3-5) to get the layabouts time to get an education, and out from in front of the game shows.

The folks who are incapable or working are a differnt story, but they are not on welfare anyway.

Steve

[BeanCounter]

DOES the Government have the Constitutional authority to "force" you to buy insurance? Maybe, maybe not. IF not, Congress can pass an amendant making it so. It's not a major hurdle, good or bad, that's just the way it is.

Can someone tell me when we changed the method of amending the Constitution? I must have missed that somewhere.