New Build: Shelby Cobra Daytona Coupe CSX9126

[decooney]

Originally Posted by vector1

I was just reading elsewhere the ultra 850 actually flows more than the ultra 950 and the boosters come in earlier, probably a wise choice!

Just picked up the Ultra 850 HP. I'll be selling both my Holley 750 HP and 830 HP carbs as a result. I had the 830 fairly dialed too. My ported FE cylinders heads, cam profile, and more open exhaust warranted me giving the Ultra a try. Still making some adjustments across the board, but so far I'm very impressed and how the motor seems to take ultra advantage of it

[Racer_X]

Originally Posted by decooney

Just picked up the Ultra 850 HP. I'll be selling both my Holley 750 HP and 830 HP carbs as a result. I had the 830 fairly dialed too. My ported FE cylinders heads, cam profile, and more open exhaust warranted me giving the Ultra a try. Still making some adjustments across the board, but so far I'm very impressed and how the motor seems to take ultra advantage of it

I might be interested in the 830HP for my FE build. Any pictures? specs?

Thanks,
Curtis

[Pliskin]

Duane-The reasons my motor has the Ultra 850...Tom Lucas originally put a Quick Fuel carb on it and I hated the red anodizing on it. If you've looked at my pics, you know I'm going for a black and blue, sinister look for the car. The Dart block was painted Navy to match the exterior and the rest of the motor is black and polished aluminum for the most part. Had to spend a few dollars to get a black MSD cap, etc. so when I saw the red QF carb it was an instant turn off that didn't fit with my "vision", lol. They don't make a polish/black one. Tom likes an Annular carb, which the QF is, and was, at least initially, not that excited about the non-annular Holley.

I previously ran a 750 Ultra on the 393 stroker in my Superformance Mk III roadster with good results, suggested it to Tom. He recommended the 850 based on what we had cubic inch, cam and head-wise. I think he was a little, if not a lot, surprised come dyno day when she pulled 611 horses at 6200 and 584 lb. ft. of torque! The original estimate was 575 hp. He claims the Ultra is more of a drag racing carb and still questions it's performance in a road race scenario, the reason he recommends the annular QF.

With the size of the fuel bowls on the Holley, I personally doubt there will be a starvation problem blasting through a twisty mountain road. The annular may atomize a bit better but I don't foresee any regrets with going to the Holley. The polish and black is the right choice aesthetically for me and I couldn't be happier with the power this "little" motor wrings out. Happy motoring.

Snake

[decooney]

Pliskin,

You'll be pleased with the carb. Just ran mine through about 300 sharp turns up/down mountain grades all through Auburn Ravine, Salmon Falls road, and more. You know what these roads are like around here, well, I even lugged it a bit staying in the same gear not having to downshift going from turn to turn just to see if I could do it just like my last carb which had Annular boosters. Other than some mild adjustments, a primary accelerator pump cam change, I'm extremely pleased. It comes with 84/84 jets squared and 4.5 PVs - and not to be confused with other Holleys, totally different design. Did Tom note the final (primary/secondary) jetting numbers and power valve on your dyno sheet?

[twin turbo]

You're Coupe looks both beautiful and wicked at the same time. Curious what you're going to run regarding the sidepipes so they are not a restriction? Cheers.

[Pliskin]

Duane-Yeah I don't think I'll be disappointed at all. Tom did not notate the sheet with those specifics...I just have a straight printout from the session. I can certainly find out though.

Twin-Thanks for the compliments on the car's look. Glad to hear it impressed an observer in the way I intended. My Wife and I have been using words like sinister, stealth and menacing to describe it for quite some time.
There are two ways to configure the exhaust system on a 9000 series coupe. Naturally the quad side pipes are integral to the look of a Daytona so they are present with either setup. First option is to have the side pipes as ornaments, basically, then they route the real exhaust system, pipes, mufflers and tailpipes to exit holes cut into the forward portion of the tucked under rear valance. This quiets the car considerably. On my car the side pipes are fully functioning, much louder and this avoids a few extra pounds of piping and, important to me, no holes cut in the bodywork. Look at the photos in my album, click "Pliskin", top right of this page, there's a shot of the pipes back from the coating vendor and you can make out a full length chamber that is behind the pipes, unseen, when mounted. Added resonance and depth to the tone.
Personally, I can't imagine building one of these cars and wanting to muffle it's character. It is a Cobra after all and should be loud, rude and in your face...no apologies.

Snake

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by Pliskin

There are two ways to configure the exhaust system on a 9000 series coupe. Naturally the quad side pipes are integral to the look of a Daytona so they are present with either setup. First option is to have the side pipes as ornaments, basically, then they route the real exhaust system, pipes, mufflers and tailpipes to exit holes cut into the forward portion of the tucked under rear valance. This quiets the car considerably.

A word of advice.
A professional builder friend built a FF Daytona and powered it with a 650HP stroked FE. It's primarily for track and he immediately noticed that the motor hit an RPM wall about 5000 and determined the 'stock' Coupe quad small block sidepipes were too small. He fabricated basically a 427 sidepipe and found 6800 RPM again. Totally different on-track power.
And adding 40-50 pounds of undercar pipes won't help.
If appearance is all that matters, ignore...

[twin turbo]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

A word of advice.
A professional builder friend built a FF Daytona and powered it with a 650HP stroked FE. It's primarily for track and he immediately noticed that the motor hit an RPM wall about 5000 and determined the 'stock' Coupe quad small block sidepipes were too small. He fabricated basically a 427 sidepipe and found 6800 RPM again. Totally different on-track power.
And adding 40-50 pounds of undercar pipes won't help.
If appearance is all that matters, ignore...

Chas, my point exactly. I've "heard" the quad pipes kill 50-100 hp in stock configuration.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by twin turbo

Chas, my point exactly. I've "heard" the quad pipes kill 50-100 hp in stock configuration.

Yes, I think they're at their limit near 400HP-like on the originals.

[Pliskin]

ERA Chas/Twin Turbo-Big block FF Daytona? Hope that's an Aluminum motor unless handling was not a concern. Factory Five makes a nice roadster, friend of mine has a nice one, but I have to say their Daytona is plain goofy looking. Every time I've seen one I can't get past the shape of the body. I have no idea what they used as inspiration but they definitely got it wrong.
Interesting points concerning the exhaust and I suppose I will find out soon enough. Looks are not "all" that's important to me, function is as well. ERA Chas, you said your friend was trying to run the small pipes on a big motor, wonder what he expected to happen. The Shelby is engineered for the use of a small block motor only. I'll be running a 611 hp 427 inch small block so perhaps my combination will be more complimentary. I would think they have the exhaust worked out properly. Hopefully there won't be any surprises.

Happy Motoring;
Snake

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by Pliskin

ERA Chas/Twin Turbo-Big block FF Daytona? Hope that's an Aluminum motor unless handling was not a concern. Factory Five makes a nice roadster, friend of mine has a nice one, but I have to say their Daytona is plain goofy looking. Every time I've seen one I can't get past the shape of the body. I have no idea what they used as inspiration but they definitely got it wrong.
Interesting points concerning the exhaust and I suppose I will find out soon enough. Looks are not "all" that's important to me, function is as well. ERA Chas, you said your friend was trying to run the small pipes on a big motor, wonder what he expected to happen. The Shelby is engineered for the use of a small block motor only. I'll be running a 611 hp 427 inch small block so perhaps my combination will be more complimentary. I would think they have the exhaust worked out properly. Hopefully there won't be any surprises.

Happy Motoring;
Snake

You misunderstood several things. It is NOT a twin-turbo big block-that's the screen name of the #28 poster. It IS an all aluminum, big roller cam, FI FE. Yes the FF Coupe has inaccurate shapes, but it was chosen to be a track car and not a concourse car. It was greatly cut and altered for a full roll cage and frame strengthening. It was chosen for the huge cost difference between it and Shelbys.
The builders were not "trying to run the small pipes on a big motor".
The build was completed with the supplied small pipes and the first test session proved they were inadequate. After they built the second sidepipe arrangement, the car showed it's true potential on track.
Your builders may NOT "have the exhaust worked out properly", figuring you may not know the difference between 511 and 611HP. They built it as supplied and did not re-engineer the exhaust system to take advantage of the increased power.
I just tried to alert you of that, because your motor is so far beyond (powerwise) what original Coupes had with their original pipes, you may not get the performance you think you're getting.

[decooney]

Pliskin,
FYI: I encountered notable restriction on my ERA factory sidepipes, and Tom was all over me about it after I installed my motor early on. I hit a wall, and it would rev up, but seemed like anything over 5,600rpms to say 6,400 was sort of tapering off. In fact, we discussed this topic again recently. Since I changed the design of my exhaust mufflers years ago, I had never gone back and tried a larger carb. I tried the larger carb last week and it worked out pretty well. Definitely moving some air.

This might seem goofy, but its something I was wondering about as another option for your car based on this topic of "exhaust". If you or Tom determine notable restriction and a loss of power at some point, hindering your top end performance, I wonder did you look into doing something where the exhaust might exit from multiple points, like sides and rear both?

[Pliskin]

To ERA Chas-I came back here at this time to apologize for what I viewed, upon overnight reflection, as some fairly snarky comments following you and Twin Turbo's previous posts. I do appreciate everyone's input and experiences related to these cars and don't want to either seem a know it all, which I readily admit I am not, or, as someone who can't be told anything constructive or helpful without reacting poorly. I stand 'hat in hand' so to speak.
I was simply trying to address you and Twin Turbo in one post and did not assume your friend's car was equipped with such. The devil is in the details as they say and your post led me to believe your friend was unaware or surprised by the effect of the restrictive, small block intended exhaust and made changes after discovering that it was indeed a problem. One of those things that can be read into apparently. Maybe only by me, lol. After your and others advisement on the matter it will be an issue that I am at least now aware of. From what decooney says in his post following yours, my engine builder is also aware of it and that's a good thing. Appreciate you trying to educate me on the matter.

decooney-Hi Duane..I have to say that ERA Chas' post to me a couple days ago was the first I had heard of the exhaust issue. Honestly, I think the length of time it has taken to procure this car has put my patience to the test. Just seems like everything has taken longer than I ever counted on and it's making me a little nutty at this point in what now has been a 17 month process. I'm sure you just read my mea culpa to ERA Chas after reacting poorly to something I really wasn't prepared to hear, another potential issue. Fortunate to have Tom on my side and confident a solution to this potential problem would be found. Thanks for weighing in.

Car is supposed to be running next week so....light at the end of the tunnel? On that news I'll take the pistol away from my head, lol.

Snake

[ERA Chas]

Put your hat back on your head-it's all good.
Tom is a quality builder and will figure how to keep your power up.
Duane is also a bright guy with tons of experience. He also has the color blue I love only second to my own...

[Pliskin]

ERA Chas-I'm back to somewhat normal now, lol. I cleaned my garage again in hopeful anticipation that a car may be taking up residence there in a few short weeks. It was good therapy.
No, no...you know in your heart that mine is the best blue, lol.

Snake

[jeffgrice]

Hey Snake,

Checking in on your Coupe experiences. Are you enjoying the car? We have a first generation Coupe (SPC0136).

Drop me a note to jjgrice55@gmail.com. Have some questions about AC. A friend of mine has a second generation Coupe and his AC won't blow cold for any longer than an hour. Wondering about your experiences.

Thanks!

Jeff

[Jac Mac]

I was told by someone that the windscreen used in the FF coupe is different in profile to the original & what changed the appearance in the cabin area... Jaguar XJS 1986 for FF cars according to the website

[Pliskin]

Jac Mac-I'm the wrong guy to ask but, perhaps someone else will be able to answer your question. FF coupes definitely have a different look to them.

Have you posted this anywhere else..perhaps on one of the other general Coupe information strings? Suspect that may reach more eyes than on here.

Best of luck...
Snake

[PANAVIA]

The FF car is incorrect in a number of areas, as the SPF ( now sold as shelby ) is what the cars intent was in 1964-5 , per the original team that designed and built the car.

we have gone further into the SPF ( now CSX ) platform than anyone and you are always welcome to come to Panavia (Panavia - Your Classics Realized! ) and get the info first hand on the Daytona Platform. #54 now has 3500miles on it after we rescued it from a hurricane, and we have upgraded other Daytona Coupes with all sorts of features and updates that make it a really nice car.

[Pliskin]

Figured it was time for an update on the progress of CSX9126. Erick Voss has run into a couple of minor snags during the motor/trans install but all have been overcome at this point in time. As he's commented, every one of these cars has it's own "personality" regarding fit, hole location variances, etc.

One issue was that the motor mounts required some shimming to get the side pipes to fall into their proper location. Another little head scratcher was using a TKO 600 in a car that was basically designed for a T-56. Erick worked through those and the latest, and we think last issue, is air cleaner to inner hood clearance.

The motor has an RPM air gap intake so it's a bit taller than a standard non air gap manifold. Though the air cleaner has a dropped base it's just a little too tall to allow the hood to close fully. For those of you who don't know, me included a few days ago, the CSX Daytonas have a cold air intake molding attached to the inside of the bonnet that runs from the upper edge of the "mouth" all the way back to the hood bubble above the carb/intake area. The molded air chamber virtually fills that bubble we see on the outside of the hood, limiting clearance. Erick will be cutting a hole through that piece, run a bead around the edge to provide a finished look and in the process create more direct air to the intake as the air element will protrude up into the created opening.

The air cleaner assy. I'm using is an AFE unit, similar to a K&N in that it draws air through side and top elements. Any one think I should look into buying some "Ram Air" stickers to slap on the car? LOL

The car is running now and has been moved about in the shop..no road tests yet..not before clear bra insatallation this Tuesday. Registration process is moving forward and there were SB100 numbers left this late in the year, so, almost there folks.
Posted a couple new pics in my Pliskin albums..check them out if you like.

Happy Motoring!
Snake