Superformance Brakes (or not)

[spfgm]

Tom, the new pads are being sent out for the front brakes to match the pads in the rear. Now both front and rear pad compounds are matching BP-10 same as on the GT 40. Both Superformance and Wilwood are working on new friction materials to increase the stopping capabilities. Superformance and Wilwood will be working on different kits for different driving styles whether is be autocross, street strip or

Your every day driver. We found during the research and development that we were quite satisfied with the braking system with the BP-10

And the Q, the difference with the BP-10 was the even modulation. The Q pad in fact does meet our requirements as long as the dealer prep was done according to the bedding procedure. You can view the characteristics and product information on the Wilwood web site under pad compound graphs. I am asking for all parts to be returned for evaluation to determine if the dealers/installers have done there job correctly.

We are quite satisfied with the research that we had done on the Mark III I brought to Wilwood, and the customer is quite satisfied with the results.

I would also like to Thank Brian Boyd for lending me the use of his car for the test at Wilwood.

[madmaxx]

SPFGM,

When replacing the calipers the brakes will need to be bled. What type of brake fluid does SPF use at the factory, DOT 3? I assume it is non-synthetic.

Thanks

[PANAVIA]

I received an email stating my calipers have shipped.-- will advise.

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

SPFGM,

When replacing the calipers the brakes will need to be bled. What type of brake fluid does SPF use at the factory, DOT 3? I assume it is non-synthetic.

Thanks

Yes. DOT 3, non-synthectic is the right stuff.

[madmaxx]

Thanks Got the Bug,

The spf manual sates Dot 3 or 4 but there is alot of dated information in the manual so I am hesitant to not verify what it indicates.

[wanab5150]

I had a question which was answered by a Wilwood tech. Some of it I liked and some I didn’t. The fact is that some braking power was compromised by adding an emergency brake that actually works well as opposed to the older cars which did not work at all (some say). At the time of the change, Wilwood had only the 34mm rear caliper with an incorporated E-brake. They developed the new 41mm with the E-brake which is worlds better than the 34mm, but not as aggressive as the original 4 pot. The change back to the 4 pots had several negative aspects. 1. The mounting brackets for the 4 pots do not fit the newer rear hubs 2. The brackets for the old E-brake are not on the newer cars and would have to be welded on from what I understand. Too much replacement and modification would be required to go back to the 4 pot and there is not a replacement 4 pot with an incorporated E-brake.

When the brake caliper changes started, the rear brakes (34mm) were not aggressive enough to even safely stop the car in several owners’ opinion. Superformance corrected the issue by changing out the 34mm caliper with the 41mm on the rear which made a huge difference, but the rear, still does not have the stopping power to match the front. This is demonstrated easily on concrete such as a gas station island where you should easily be able to lock up everything. Don't mistake what I'm saying here, my car stops very well now but could clearly use some more stopping power in the rear. I have tried to get the rear to break loose, but it just won’t happen. Now, I have Goodyear 315’s on the back, and the stock 275’s or even 295’s may in fact lock up as they may be a better match for the 255/265 fronts, which ever you may have. Essentially, I may have too much rubber on the ground in the rear which overpowers the caliper somewhat. I would like to hear from someone with the 41’s and 275 or 295’s, and hear how their car feels as far as all 4 locking at about the same time. I know locking the binders is not beneficial to stopping but it would provide the answer to the question of whether the added tire size is the reason mine won’t lock up.

Barry is sending me new front pads which are one step more aggressive than the “Q” pads on the front now. The rear 41’s came with BP-10 pads. By replacing the fronts with BP-10 pads I would have the same compound all around.

The question I posed to the Wilwood tech is……….If I add more stopping power to the front by adding more aggressive BP-10 pads, wouldn’t that put me right back in the same boat as before when the fronts way over powered the rear 34’s? The answer was “probably” but, the difference between the two pads is “minimal”. He said there were a number of pads from street to extreme racing, and about, I think he said 6 or 7 different levels of pads, so how much could one step up make. That’s straight from the horse’s mouth.
IF…the new BP-10’s are more “progressive” in their feel, then they may add a slight better edge in overall stopping without over powering the rears. If they are just stronger, then I think the car will go back to the “no rear brake feel”. I’m hoping that by matching the front and rear compounds, this may render a better overall stronger and better feel. If not, I will put the “Q” pads back on and be fine living with the results. I feel comfortable with the way it is now, but I’m a “too much is better than not enough” kinda guy.

I have not received the pads yet but Barry said they were shipped. I will follow up with the results in a few weeks or so, and this should end this thread. tom

[madmaxx]

I should obtain my parts tomorrow, and hopefully install, do the bedding procedure on sat or sun. I will post my results.

[PANAVIA]

Calipers Arived, I will post pictures soon.

they also sent a set of front pads as well as the backs....

will do a writeup. Can someone send me a PM and tell me where i can post a writeup >?

--Steve

[madmaxx]

Looks like another cluster fuk for me, sent the calipers and one set of pads so either i am missing the front or rears.

[madmaxx]

panavia,

am I supposed to reuse my old rear pads on the new rear calipers, being 100F today I do not have alot of passion to take off the existing wheel and brake caliper to determine if the existing brake shoe fits on the new caliper.

[madmaxx]

My screw up, the rear pads stay the same. Installation is very very simple, about 15 minutes per side in 100F. The piston is sizeable larger, everything else bolts right up, scared to put brake fluid in reservoir but I have to before I drive since I bled the brakes. I hope the hell it is not synthetic because I am putting regular stuff in

[madmaxx]

It took 30 minutes to install the calibers and bleed and 2 hours to find a funnel with a hose to fill up the master cylinder LOL. By far the hardest part of the job is filling up the master cylinder.

First impressions are FANTASTIC, when I stop the front does not "dip" it is obvious the rear brakes are contributing, the car stops and maintains level. I only drove about 3 miles and have not installed the new front pads, I question if I even need them, if it works as good tomorrow I hate to risk jeapordizing what I have gained.

I did have to retighten one of the banjo fittings I found it dripping, confirm tomorow it is sealed. If not I will have to get some new copper washers, but 95% sure I got it.

Emergency brake working very well as good as with the last brakes so that is another positive.

Thanks to everyone, especially SPF for the remedy.

[madmaxx]

By the way my engine is a Roush 427sr/tw. No vacuum pump, just what the engine develops, idle speed 900 rpm.

[emberglo66]

It just keeps going!!!

[Got the Bug]

I'm not to read through every post, and I'm sure it's been used...

Please, please, make it STOP!!

[madmaxx]

Mine aint't going anymore, it stops to well!!!! It's over for moi!!

[wanab5150]

I received my pads today. I will install on Tuesday and report the results on Thur. or Friday. Glad everyones happy with the new setup tom

[wanab5150]

Mad maxx.........What size rear tires do you have and do they lock up at the same time as the fronts? tom

[madmaxx]

I have the 275's on the rear. Different car, I can lock all 4 wheels at anything above 45 mph. Fronts may lock 1 second before the rears but make no mistake if I hit the brake hard enough I am skidding. Make sure you install the fronts shoes also, it take less than 3 minutes, you pull out the long cotter pin on top of the caliper, pop out the old shoe and install the new shoes. I would guess the fronts gave me 45% of the gain I got from the rear if that makes sense. It is a different car stopping wise. After the bedding process I did numerous (15) 100 mph to 40 mph trying to create a braking issue and all that happened was I got a headache from my head flying forward.

SPF has the solution, on a side note I need to give credit where credit is due, one item that has been flawless during my entire ownership of this SPF is the Roush, it just performs perfect day in and day out, I will never own anything else.

[wanab5150]

Update.........I will have an answer about the 10th of July. I've got some other issues to deal with before I can yank the wheels off the car. I will bleed all 4 calipers and follow the bedding instructions to the letter. Cross your fingers. tom