Superformance Exhaust

[Bxx1]

"I'm glad to see the port size numbers...thanks, Greg. I'll have the new 3 inch mufflers in 3 weeks. tom"


Tom, I would like to hear the exhaust, before/after setup.

Ron

[mickmate]

I've been making flanges if any one needs anything they can't find. I have a program for the Cleveland motor that looks like your picture but I'm doing individual cylinder flanges.

[wanab5150]

Ron, my car pretty much sounds like yours and every other Superformance I've heard. Jim Norris has them now and usually comes to the 3rd Saturday breakfast. tom

[mickmate]

I've also got the 2.5" and 3" Classic Chambered mufflers, reducers and turnouts on the shelf if anyone needs them. If you're replacing mufflers get them good and clean of stickers or tape as it stays on under ceramic coating even after blasting.

[FUNFER2]

I can make you a pair of highly polished 3.5" stainless steel exhaust from the header flange to the turn out. If you're interested, send me a PM or email. Guaranteed to make more HP/TQ than the stock exhaust. The muffler is louvered and can be turned away or inward for loud or more quiet. Both the collector and turn out slide neatly into the muffler for a clean and tight fit, there for the weld is very small. It's a "Kit" with extra long primaries to fit your application. They sound incredible.

http://www.youtube.com/user/427HISS

[wanab5150]

Kevin, mine are already in progress, but these are beautiful. For the others here near Sacramento can you give me a price for a pair with 3" mufflers like this for a Superformance?

[wanab5150]

I went to Stevens shop in Reno today and checked out both the 402 headers and a set of the older style that came off another car. I took some close-up photos to analyze.

I took the old used headers and separated the mass which is blocking the port and in Photoshop superimposed that mass inside the existing port of the header. I placed a 1/32' grid over the entire exhaust port. Not being a math whiz, I simply counted the square grids in the blocked mass and inside the open portion of the port, subtracted the blockage from the open port and came up with a 38% blockage over the 402 headers for the Roush/AFR heads.

If you look closely at the port in the old headers and VISUALLY move the burnt portion on the flange into the open port you will realize this is pretty accurate. And they told me I needed to redo Algebra in Summer school!!! Screw'em!

Taking into consideration that there is a huge blockage (over a third)and the fact that the spent gasses are rebounding off the blunt wall of the flange and having to compress over and over again trying to fight their way out, these older headers are suppressing loads of HP in your big inch motors.

Think of shooting a .45 round inside a 6'x6'x6' steel cube. It will ricochet over and over until it loses velocity…….or escapes. Thank God gasses compress, or the heads would have been blown into orbit as soon as it was fired up the first time.

I will say it again.....If you are running the old headers you might as well leave the 2 inch mufflers on your Superformance. The 3" mufflers may sound better but performance CAN'T really change much. If you have the 402 headers and the 2 inch mufflers it's like putting a golf ball in a garden hose! Bye Bye 100 ponies!

[greg schroeder]

Originally Posted by wanab5150

I went to Stevens shop in Reno today and checked out both the 402 headers and a set of the older style that came off another car. I took some close-up photos to analyze.

I took the old used headers and separated the mass which is blocking the port and in Photoshop superimposed that mass inside the existing port of the header. I placed a 1/32' grid over the entire exhaust port. Not being a math whiz, I simply counted the square grids in the blocked mass and inside the open portion of the port, subtracted the blockage from the open port and came up with a 38% blockage over the 402 headers for the Roush/AFR heads.

If you look closely at the port in the old headers and VISUALLY move the burnt portion on the flange into the open port you will realize this is pretty accurate. And they told me I needed to redo Algebra in Summer school!!! Screw'em!

Taking into consideration that there is a huge blockage (over a third)and the fact that the spent gasses are rebounding off the blunt wall of the flange and having to compress over and over again trying to fight their way out, these older headers are suppressing loads of HP in your big inch motors.

Think of shooting a .45 round inside a 6'x6'x6' steel cube. It will ricochet over and over until it loses velocity…….or escapes. Thank God gasses compress, or the heads would have been blown into orbit as soon as it was fired up the first time.

I will say it again.....If you are running the old headers you might as well leave the 2 inch mufflers on your Superformance. The 3" mufflers may sound better but performance CAN'T really change much. If you have the 402 headers and the 2 inch mufflers it's like putting a golf ball in a garden hose! Bye Bye 100 ponies!

Do you know the width and height of the inlet on the 402 header?

[Jim Vander Wal]

I have the FireFlyPermormance sidepipes mufflers with the 3" hole - real loud and the first set of SS headers, 2" tube built for AFR 225s. These are now being built with 1 7/8" primaries which is probably better for most small blocks unless you have big cubes and run high RPM.

Contact Ron Roberts
http://www.fireflyperformance.com/
Headers for SBF and other and sidepipes for all SPF MKIIIs

Not cheap but excellent products.

Jim
RDI AL-427w, AFR 225, Vic Jr., ProSystems

[wanab5150]

Originally Posted by greg schroeder

Do you know the width and height of the inlet on the 402 header?

No Greg I did not measure it. The shape of the 402 header is the same dome shape, and eyeballing it, it appears right on. You could dremmel a little around the inlet to clean them up, but comparing the two headers and the head, it's realllllly close if not perfect.

Email me at wanab5150@comcast.net and i will send you the new photos I took.
No one emailed me how to put them here when I asked so.......

[RedBarchetta]

Can someone tell me if the Roush/AFR exhaust ports exit the head at a different height/measurement than, say, an Edelbrock Victor Jr. head? If the bolting points are identical, then it's possible to leverage the design. But knowing that the exhaust ports for each head are considerably different, not sure if non Roush/AFR headed engine owners need apply?

-Dean

[Jim Vander Wal]

Roush/AFR 205 & 225 exhaust ports are vertically centered. The ports on the 205s are 1 3/8"sq, 225's are 1 1/2" sq both with radiused corners.

I believe that Vic Jr's are vertically centered too but the ports are more rectangular. I have a set available and can check if no one else knows.

Jim

[poisonsnake]

contact Ron Roberts @Firefly Performance.com Absolutely rocking systems and a wealth of knowledge. Integrity too!

[wanab5150]

I've seen his pipes and they are beautiful, but you can get Stainless pipes for Factory 5 for $1400 delivered. A friend of mine has them. They are tig welded and polished. Perfect! The builder only makes them for factory 5. Too Bad.

Stainless 3 inch mufflers and pipes ARE Stainless 3 inch mufflers and pipes! The cost of 304 stainless is not $1500 more for materials, and tig welding is no more expensive on stainless than steel. This is obvious by the fact that Firefly Jet coated are only $100 less than Stainless.

The chambered exhaust, fab work, and Jet coat is $1300 out the door from Steve at Full Throttle in Reno. Fireflys are $2900 delivered in Stainless and $2800 for jet coat. Paying more than twice the price for Fireflys ($1700 more for the same 3 inch set-up) is a high price to pay for his integrity!

[madmaxx]

The builder for the factory five needs to make them for spf. I imagine it would only require a new jig. The amount of material and labor would be about the same. I was happily pay $1400 for stainless steel sidepipes for my spf but $2900 it out in left field.

Originally Posted by wanab5150

I've seen his pipes and they are beautiful, but you can get Stainless pipes for Factory 5 for $1400 delivered. A friend of mine has them. They are tig welded and polished. Perfect! The builder only makes them for factory 5. Too Bad.

Stainless 3 inch mufflers and pipes ARE Stainless 3 inch mufflers and pipes! The cost of 304 stainless is not $1500 more for materials, and tig welding is no more expensive on stainless than steel. This is obvious by the fact that Firefly Jet coated are only $100 less than Stainless.

The chambered exhaust, fab work, and Jet coat is $1100 out the door from Steve at Full Throttle in Reno. Fireflys are $2900 delivered in Stainless and $2800 for jet coat. Paying more than twice the price for Fireflys ($1700 more for the same 3 inch set-up) is a high price to pay for his integrity!

[RedBarchetta]

Originally Posted by Jim Vander Wal

Roush/AFR 205 & 225 exhaust ports are vertically centered. The ports on the 205s are 1 3/8"sq, 225's are 1 1/2" sq both with radiused corners.

I believe that Vic Jr's are vertically centered too but the ports are more rectangular. I have a set available and can check if no one else knows.

Jim

Jim, I recall an older article in Second Strike that showed that the header bolt orientation on the Victor Jr's was actually either slightly lower or higher than the AFRs. In other words, the header would bolt up a 1/4" (or more?) up or down from one head vs. the other. This is what I'm trying to verify, as that would mess up alignment and force the use of a shim (at the collector flange) to angle the down pipes properly. An angled shim = another gasket = another opportunity for leaks.

-Dean

[wanab5150]

Can someone give me instructions how to post photos here? thanks

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by wanab5150

Can someone give me instructions how to post photos here? thanks

Tom,

Before you can upload any images to CC, they need to be re-sized to a smaller format (i.e. 640 x 480).

Here's a thread regarding re-sizing images.

Tips on Picture Uploads and Image Sizes

This Microsoft program can be downloaded and provides a quick and simple way to create a copy of your original image that can be uploaded to CC. Adobe and other image programs will do the same thing, but the MS program is easy to use and becomes a choice when you right click an image in your "my pictures folder."

http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...ertoySetup.exe

To upload an image to your CC Gallery:

- Click on the "Gallery" tab (one of the choices on the top tool bar)
- Click on the "My Photos" tab
- Click on the "Upload Photos" tab on the right
- Fill out any info regarding your photo (not required)
- Click on "Select Files for Upload"
- Find the image file (that you re-sized) on your computer
- Upload the image

- Click on the "Go Advanced" tab before you create or modify your post.
- Click on the "insert image" tab on the right
- Choose the image from your gallery (it will insert the file url in your post)
- Post the thread / click on the thumbnail to enlarge the image

Here's an example.

[wanab5150]

Thanks so much...I'll give it a try.

[tmareina]

When I had my engine rebuilt by FE Specialties in Sacramento, Tom changed the core muffler...from 2.5 to over 3" ...mine was loud and had good performance before but you could drop a baseball in the new pipe and it is a little louder...for a 428 with 614hp. Call him...he can give you some figures.

Tom