Pro vs Con Re: CSX and Superformance/ERA

[Silversmith]

After 1966?? Original 3000 series CSX's were produced until early 1968!! The 1966 date in the previous posting must have been a typo IMHO post 3000 CSX series AC Cobra replica's fall into the following order. for Alum. body AC's #1 would be KMC. #2 would be Present day CSX's. For Glass AC's #1 would be ERA. #2 would be KMC & #3 would be CSX, then the rest in one's personal pref. order. For the overall cost & exacting standards. A factory built ERA is truly one awsome ride! I am however, slighty biased.

[Slither]

They are all pretty awesome cars!

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Slither

Sorry, didn't mean to ruffle all those feathers. I just don't understand why the passing of Carroll Shelby NOW makes all the cars produced after his death replicas. Does that also mean that every Ferrari produced since Enzo Ferrari's passing is "just a replica"? It's the same thing, isn't it?

No. The reason guys opted for the Shelby is not because it's mechanically superior to other replica Cobras (it's arguably not as well built as the top of the line Kirkhams or ERAs), but it's because of the involvement of Shelby himself -- and you paid a healthy premium for that involvement. You buy a Ferrari because it is mechanically superior, not because of the direct involvement of a Ferrari family member. If an investment group of mine bought the Shelby name, and the rights to build a replica using the Shelby name, then how are my cars any different than an SPF, ERA, FFR, or any other replica company? The only difference is I get to use the name "Shelby," which has a better ring to it than "patrickt." But the truth is my cars are no closer to the originals than a Hurricane or Unique. Once you acknowledge that point, then it is a quick hop to realizing that the people that now own and run the Shelby company are really no different than if it were me running and building the cars (at least when it comes to being close to "the real thing"). Whether you like it or not, Shelby is no longer involved with that company... any more than if he had sold it to the Chinese.

[madmaxx]

I have owned a bdr and a SPF, driven 3 other make. SPF is 10k more than bdr and worth 10k more. On the flip side bdr is worth every penny they sale for. I won't own another small block unless I am flipping the car. My next, if it is for me will be a kirkham, but if I could find a big block era for a great price I would save the 35k? And get it for a couple years. The item I loathe about any cobra is the painfully soft easy to chip paint, that is out of the equation with a kirkham. My only concern with a kirkham is I don't want it to raw.

[AL427SBF]

best ambassador to buy anything but a CSX is patrickt

[Slither]

Well patrickt, I must have one of those rare top of the line type kirkham or era replicas. My aluminum car, CSX4266, was built by the Kirkhams at their shop in Provo, Utah and sold as a complete roller to SAI. So therefore by you, would make it a top of the line SHELBY COBRA. The quality in this car is Kirkham quality. That is the way it was back in the late 2001's. If it wasn't for ol' Carroll Shelby doing what he did back in the day, we wouldn't even have this forum today. Why do you hate the man but love his product by owning a replica of it?
I do agree with you that SAI is not what it used to be. Personally, I think they should have ceased construction of the Cobra at the time of his death. SAI doesn't seem to care about the Cobra owner any longer. They are so involved with converting Mustangs to huge HP powerhouses that the Cobra is pushed in to a corner now. Of course, this is only my opinion and everybody else has theirs. Sorry if we don't agree.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Slither

Well patrickt, I must have one of those rare top of the line type kirkham or era replicas. My aluminum car, CSX4266, was built by the Kirkhams at their shop in Provo, Utah and sold as a complete roller to SAI. So therefore by you, would make it a top of the line SHELBY COBRA. The quality in this car is Kirkham quality. That is the way it was back in the late 2001's. If it wasn't for ol' Carroll Shelby doing what he did back in the day, we wouldn't even have this forum today. Why do you hate the man but love his product by owning a replica of it?
I do agree with you that SAI is not what it used to be. Personally, I think they should have ceased construction of the Cobra at the time of his death. SAI doesn't seem to care about the Cobra owner any longer. They are so involved with converting Mustangs to huge HP powerhouses that the Cobra is pushed in to a corner now. Of course, this is only my opinion and everybody else has theirs. Sorry if we don't agree.

You have a fine car. And I have the highest respect for Mr. Shelby. But today, a glass Shelby is not worth a penny more than any other glass replica of similar quality.

[frdfver]

Chipping of the paint I believe would be how the car was prepared and the thickness of the paint. An aluminum body still dents and stretches, then must be metal finished which takes considerable skill and or cost…I personally would still paint an aluminum body. Aluminum also corrodes and then there is the problem of dissimilar metal corrosion.

[Tutosnake]

I bought a CSX because i can always show that CSX number. I could care less if it was more or less quality. I bought a CSX because it carried Shelby's name, dead or alive. I bought a CSX because another replica was farther out from the original thing. i bought a CSX because the same money for a Ferrari would have gotten me a post-Enzo run of the mill car that will never be collectible (sans the low run uber-ferraris of our modern times). I bought a CSX because to my eye, it offers the BEST body line. I bought a CSX because otherwise $60,000 for a non Shelby replica is REALLY wasted money... All non CSX cars should be worth $40K tops... it's a cheap car to make, it is so elemental that to pay more that $40K for it is nuts, UNLESS it is a SHELBY Cobra. Like or not, Shelby (or some dudes) went back into the replica business and produced THE car with the proper lineage, replica or not. I bought a CSX because of the history of Shelby's. Like it or not, if your car is not a CSX, it does not carry the Shelby mystique, o heritage. Is it better that the other ones? Well, let me just mention that every single local guy (mechanic, body work, painter, racer) that has come in close contact with my car has said the same thing (to my delight): "this is the best replica I have ever seen... it is made so much better than the rest..." Is this true? I do not have the experience and knowledge to bottom line it, but these guys seem to see the difference.
If I wanted to invest my money wisely (on a car), no Shelby car (except the 289 Coupe, and roadsters that won the "65 Championship), CSX or Mustang would be in my top 10 list. Are you kidding me? That list comprises a group of Ferraris and Bugattis, with a handful of Alfas and Mercs, and only the Daytona Coupe finishing up the list. Who would in their right mind buy an original CSX roadster for more than $150,000 ? Only people with more money that sense. It is one of the simplest, simplistic, and rudimentary cars ever built. It was fast, nothing else. It was left in dirty corners for long years, disregarded as trash. One day someone said "i want to restore that car" and spent $200K doing it, and "Voila!" a new object of appreciation was born. It has been SOOOO imitated, that you cannot tell the difference between those originals and so many others running up and down our streets!!
I paid what I paid for my CSX car because it is what i thought any non-competition CSX car is worth... tops. Since that is not what the market thinks, and I cannot afford an original car,. I went for a 6000 car. Now that the "roller" price went up, I think the next buyer should look into an original XKE, Alfa, Lancia, Corvette, or Porsche (for investment purposes).
Like it or not, ERA, Kirkham, SPF, etc. are not Shelby Cobras. It does not mean they are not better products, but they will never be a Shelby. Sometimes, the name of a brand has all the power to it. Ask Coca-Cola....
As it is I celebrate ANY good looking Cobra here, and out there. It is a great hobby, and an awesome car to work with. It allows any of us to be driver and mechanic at the same time. It is timeless, and beautiful. We should all enjoy it in its many forms, but please stop trying to make me feel guilty about having spent more money for my CSX version... it is what it is!

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Slither

My aluminum car, CSX4266, was built by the Kirkhams at their shop in Provo, Utah and sold as a complete roller to SAI.

Do you have the entire Kirkham billet aluminum suspension, brakes and rear end, the CSX suspension or the original type suspension that costs an extra $16,000 from Kirkham?

As for the Ferrari comparison, there have been some model changes between the 1962 Ferrari 250 and the current 2013 Ferrari 458 Italia just to pick one of their current offerings. And the same argument can be made for Mr. Ferdinand Porsche. These are car companies that have continually produced and modernized their cars since their inception. The Cobra not so much.

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by Tutosnake

Like it or not, ERA, Kirkham, SPF, etc. are not Shelby Cobras. It does not mean they are not better products, but they will never be a Shelby. Sometimes, the name of a brand has all the power to it.

While the Kirkham isn't a Shelby Cobra, the Cobra registry accepts it as one of their own. Very confusing world.

Oh, and for a few bucks per car, Carroll Shelby licensed the SPF as one his bastard children.

[Tutosnake]

Agreed. It is just that CSX6000 cars seem to be lesser children on SAAC, and bastard children on CC... makes me think sometimes Continuation owners need their own forum...

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Tutosnake

I bought a CSX because i can always show that CSX number. I could care less if it was more or less quality. I bought a CSX because it carried Shelby's name, dead or alive. I bought a CSX because another replica was farther out from the original thing. i bought a CSX because the same money for a Ferrari would have gotten me a post-Enzo run of the mill car that will never be collectible (sans the low run uber-ferraris of our modern times). I bought a CSX because to my eye, it offers the BEST body line. I bought a CSX because otherwise $60,000 for a non Shelby replica is REALLY wasted money... All non CSX cars should be worth $40K tops... it's a cheap car to make, it is so elemental that to pay more that $40K for it is nuts, UNLESS it is a SHELBY Cobra. Like or not, Shelby (or some dudes) went back into the replica business and produced THE car with the proper lineage, replica or not. I bought a CSX because of the history of Shelby's. Like it or not, if your car is not a CSX, it does not carry the Shelby mystique, o heritage. Is it better that the other ones? Well, let me just mention that every single local guy (mechanic, body work, painter, racer) that has come in close contact with my car has said the same thing (to my delight): "this is the best replica I have ever seen... it is made so much better than the rest..." Is this true? I do not have the experience and knowledge to bottom line it, but these guys seem to see the difference.
If I wanted to invest my money wisely (on a car), no Shelby car (except the 289 Coupe, and roadsters that won the "65 Championship), CSX or Mustang would be in my top 10 list. Are you kidding me? That list comprises a group of Ferraris and Bugattis, with a handful of Alfas and Mercs, and only the Daytona Coupe finishing up the list. Who would in their right mind buy an original CSX roadster for more than $150,000 ? Only people with more money that sense. It is one of the simplest, simplistic, and rudimentary cars ever built. It was fast, nothing else. It was left in dirty corners for long years, disregarded as trash. One day someone said "i want to restore that car" and spent $200K doing it, and "Voila!" a new object of appreciation was born. It has been SOOOO imitated, that you cannot tell the difference between those originals and so many others running up and down our streets!!
I paid what I paid for my CSX car because it is what i thought any non-competition CSX car is worth... tops. Since that is not what the market thinks, and I cannot afford an original car,. I went for a 6000 car. Now that the "roller" price went up, I think the next buyer should look into an original XKE, Alfa, Lancia, Corvette, or Porsche (for investment purposes).
Like it or not, ERA, Kirkham, SPF, etc. are not Shelby Cobras. It does not mean they are not better products, but they will never be a Shelby. Sometimes, the name of a brand has all the power to it. Ask Coca-Cola....
As it is I celebrate ANY good looking Cobra here, and out there. It is a great hobby, and an awesome car to work with. It allows any of us to be driver and mechanic at the same time. It is timeless, and beautiful. We should all enjoy it in its many forms, but please stop trying to make me feel guilty about having spent more money for my CSX version... it is what it is!

Wowzer. I can't believe I wasted all that money on a non-Shelby replica that I don't drive.

All I can say is OY VEY!

[Tutosnake]

You should drive more often then!

[fordracing65]

DAMN, I just ran out of POPCORN and BEER, please don't continue till I return from the store, I'll let you all know when that is...

[427 Street]

I am still new here (but not new to Cobras), and I like that this Forum labels itself as "unbiased" and I hope it stays that way. I think the moderators do an excellent job of keeping the peace as do the members.

I agree with most of the comments above. It does not matter to me what car someone has but it is important to me that they are passionate about cars, the hobby, and the history of this particular car.

The one statement that I do not agree with is "All non CSX cars should be worth $40K tops... it's a cheap car to make, it is so elemental that to pay more that $40K for it is nuts, UNLESS it is a SHELBY Cobra" and the "mystique" comment. Unless it is a real Cobra, that mystique is only when you see a real 60's car, sit in a real car, see the real patina and wear of a real car.

The "$40k tops" is such an inaccurate statement and almost insulting. My real 1964 427, built, was about $20k alone. The amazing paint job is almost $8k, and then you add in the chassis, the major parts, all of the most historically accurate parts you can find, and the price moves up pretty quickly. That price is usually north of $40k.

My 'mystique' is when I start up that '64 427...the history of that motor, the sound and feel of that motor, the SMELL of that motor, and that it takes almost 10 minutes to warm up makes me feel like I went back almost 50 years in time.

My advice: buy what you like, buy what you can afford, drive it with pride and enjoy it.

[csx4017]

I have a list of design changes for my CSX that center around suspension,etc. Kirkham has incorporated most of them in his fine cars. Nick has fabricated A-Arms,etc to improve the CSX4000/6000 Cobras. SA has ( as previously stated ) spent their efforts on Mustang Mods. I understand that is a good business decision vs CSX product support.
CSX PRO'S
1) Excellent long distance seats
2) Fine brakes for 15 Inch Rims
3) Neutral handling ( my opinion and licensed track instructors )
4) Quality paint job
5) Distributor support was great in my case
CSX CON'S
1) Many suspension pivot joints are non-lube
2) Windshield glass quality
3) Lower door gap should have been weather sealed
4) Carpet grade is a C
5) On your own to trace parts and suppliers
6) Todays pricing is unreal
Given the money I would purchase a Kirkham...............Still love to drive the CSX fast

[Bill Bess]

Great discussion here, but the question is just way too simple.
Question 1. Do you want to buy a factory built car or build it yourself.
2. How much money do you want to throw at it?
3. Bare minimum to build it yourself with the best stuff is $45000. +
4. Get over being the best cobra, original cobra, best handling cobra..whatever...and they are all replicas except for the orignial few built buy Shelby back in the sixties.
5. "Just love the one you brought" as the song goes.
6. I would think the Kirkum is the best ride out there right now..but who cares what I think. I really agree with Patrick...maybe I'll change my name to Carrol Shelby.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Bill Bess

I really agree with Patrick...

That's because you took the time to really think about what I wrote.

[Tutosnake]

Oh man! I just, and I mean JUST, finished my response to the above, and fell prey to the funny business of computers. My response was once again very long, and by the time I finished, the forum logged me out, I hit enter and POOF! just like that I lost my text.
Well I am really exhausted after such a feat... and my weak brain does not allow for a regurgitation of written words here. So i will try later...

Till then (and possibly the best for all) I will just apologize if I hurt someone's feelings. Not my intension.

On my way to drive my over-priced CSX. Ciao!

Hector