Pro vs Con Re: CSX and Superformance/ERA

[decooney]

Ron,

I don't think you'll get the pros/cons answer YOU are really looking for without determining your critical goals and objective(s) first. Maybe it starts with your budget limit you have set for yourself. It's kind of like asking "what house should I buy" without stating price range, then what neighborhood, single story vs. two story, minimum yard and lot size, etc. If you can identify what some of your minimum requirements are, it makes it easier to figure it out from there starting with budget, then whether or not you want to build it or buy it new or used as a completed car.

As you know, we have one of every make in our town. Line 'em up side by side and each will have its own unique appeal and feel. One might start with sitting in one of each to see how it feels in terms of "fitment" for starters.

[tkb289]

Originally Posted by Tutosnake

Oh man! I just, and I mean JUST, finished my response to the above, and fell prey to the funny business of computers. My response was once again very long, and by the time I finished, the forum logged me out, I hit enter and POOF! just like that I lost my text ....

Hector

Hector … One suggestion to avoid losing a post by being logged out when typing a long reply, is to first draft the reply in a text program (Word or similar) then log back into the thread and copy & paste.

[AL427SBF]

OP's Question: ... what would be the advantage of owning a Shelby CSX Cobra as opposed to a Superformance/ERA. Engine/drivetrain/body (fiberglass) being equal.

Answer: None, all equal

Replicas do not appreciate with time, finding a good deal on one that is well built with quality components overrides any perceived delta between builders or "name recognition". Cost to Buy - Selling Price later = How good a deal you originally got. A CSX now versus a CSX when Shelby was alive are worth the same, it's still a CSX and his death does not diminish or add to the intrinsic value.

Interesting that this worth question is so important to many, worth is what the market will bare at sale - a moving target. So if you intend to flip it or have a crystal ball - getting caught up in "brand recognition" among the reputable builders is a waste of time, they're all good.

Cost to Buy - Selling Price later = How good a deal you originally got, that is the bottom line when you bailout.

I thought owning a cobra replica was so you could enjoy driving a little piece of history that excels in the performance department. They all do that, so get the one right for you and your budget, don't get hung up on "worth". I would even say if perceived value is a buying point, then maybe the head is stuck up the ol' tailpipe 'cause that ain't what this experience is about.

Bring it on!

[DougD]

For me, it would be CSX, ERA, and then Superformance.

In the world of fiberglass repliCobras, the CSX is alone at the top of the heap. Just look at the resale prices. No other glass car comes close. Mine has gone up in value quite a bit while I have owned it, despite the "experts" telling you that they are a bad investment. A rising tide floats all boats. The early ones are very close to an original. The later ones diverge a bit with suspension, electricals, gauges, etc.

I can spot a Superformance from a half mile away. The shape of the rear fenders and the grille opening/radiator are the giveaways for me. High quality, though, with many happy owners.

The ERAs are a little tougher to spot as their body and trim are pretty accurate. You have to pop the hood for a look to really be sure. Again, high quality, excellent support.

If you add in aluminum bodies, then Kirkham makes its entrance in the poll. But they don't make fiberglass Cobras, so that's not relevant to your question.

If I was buying again, I'd try to find a CSX glass 289 USRRC/FIA replica with a snotty small block and Webers. Just perfect.

[lippy]

Originally Posted by DougD

For me, it would be CSX, ERA, and then Superformance.

In the world of fiberglass repliCobras, the CSX is alone at the top of the heap. Just look at the resale.

Agree on the resale, but based on the examples I've seen I'd put CSX behind Kirkham and ERA in terms of engineering and quality. Just my opinion.

[1ntCobra]

SAI buys ONLY the aluminum body and frames from Kirkham (and the frame is apparently slightly different than the standard Kirkham frame in that the motor mounts are are not in the standard position). SAI does NOT buy complete rollers from Kirkham.

When you are buying an aluminum body CSX continuation car from SAI, you are buying a car with a lot of the work done in Vegas.

Originally Posted by Slither

Well patrickt, I must have one of those rare top of the line type kirkham or era replicas. My aluminum car, CSX4266, was built by the Kirkhams at their shop in Provo, Utah and sold as a complete roller to SAI. So therefore by you, would make it a top of the line SHELBY COBRA. The quality in this car is Kirkham quality. That is the way it was back in the late 2001's. If it wasn't for ol' Carroll Shelby doing what he did back in the day, we wouldn't even have this forum today. Why do you hate the man but love his product by owning a replica of it?
I do agree with you that SAI is not what it used to be. Personally, I think they should have ceased construction of the Cobra at the time of his death. SAI doesn't seem to care about the Cobra owner any longer. They are so involved with converting Mustangs to huge HP powerhouses that the Cobra is pushed in to a corner now. Of course, this is only my opinion and everybody else has theirs. Sorry if we don't agree.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

SAI buys ONLY the aluminum body and frames from Kirkham (and the frame is apparently slightly different than the standard Kirkham frame in that the motor mounts are are not in the standard position). SAI does NOT buy complete rollers from Kirkham.

When you are buying an aluminum body CSX continuation car from SAI, you are buying a car with a lot of the work done in Vegas.

Much hustling done in Vegas?

[Slither]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

SAI buys ONLY the aluminum body and frames from Kirkham (and the frame is apparently slightly different than the standard Kirkham frame in that the motor mounts are are not in the standard position). SAI does NOT buy complete rollers from Kirkham.

When you are buying an aluminum body CSX continuation car from SAI, you are buying a car with a lot of the work done in Vegas.

1ntCobra, you are wrong about SAI buying only the aluminum body and frame from Kirkham. Tom Kirkham told me the CSX4266 was their very first powder coated chassis. It was delivered to SAI as a roller!
RodKnock, to answer your question about the billet suspension is NO. When I ordered the car in late 2001, Kirkham had not developed and released their billet suspension. For me, I wanted the closest think to a real Shelby Cobra so I opted for the aluminum bodied car. So a year after owning the car, I added stack fuel injection and blew my own theory. I can say that I own a real Shelby Cobra, not a car that looks like one. That is just the way it is. Replica or not, these cars are owned by passionate owners. There is nothing wrong with owning a replica, a kit car or what ever you want to call it. It is just a matter of personal preference. Heck, what fun would it be if they all looked alike?

[1ntCobra]

Go to page 848 of the current SAAC registry (4th edition), look at the picture in the bottom left hand corner and read its caption. Also see the picture and caption on the top left hand corner of page 849.

Then when you have some more time, check out this thread: Aluminum Body

When you get to this point in the thread, Aluminum Body, you will see pictures taken by me and someone else in Vegas that show both Kirkham sourced bodies and frames as well as bodies and frames sourced from England, none of which are rollers.

This all seems to back up my point.

Perhaps CSX4266 was special and delivered to SAI as a roller from Kirkham. If that is the case, you should get your registry entry updated to reflect its special history.

Originally Posted by Slither

1ntCobra, you are wrong about SAI buying only the aluminum body and frame from Kirkham. Tom Kirkham told me the CSX4266 was their very first powder coated chassis. It was delivered to SAI as a roller!
RodKnock, to answer your question about the billet suspension is NO. When I ordered the car in late 2001, Kirkham had not developed and released their billet suspension. For me, I wanted the closest think to a real Shelby Cobra so I opted for the aluminum bodied car. So a year after owning the car, I added stack fuel injection and blew my own theory. I can say that I own a real Shelby Cobra, not a car that looks like one. That is just the way it is. Replica or not, these cars are owned by passionate owners. There is nothing wrong with owning a replica, a kit car or what ever you want to call it. It is just a matter of personal preference. Heck, what fun would it be if they all looked alike?

[CSX4815]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

Go to page 848 of the current SAAC registry (4th edition), look at the picture in the bottom left hand corner and read its caption. Also see the picture and caption on the top left hand corner of page 849.

Then when you have some more time, check out this thread: Aluminum Body

When you get to this point in the thread, Aluminum Body, you will see pictures taken by me and someone else in Vegas that show both Kirkham sourced bodies and frames as well as bodies and frames sourced from England, none of which are rollers.

This all seems to back up my point.

Perhaps CSX4266 was special and delivered to SAI as a roller from Kirkham. If that is the case, you should get your registry entry updated to reflect its special history.

Who cares what the registry says... It's Bills car! You guys have way too much time on your hands...

Oy Vey is right!

[Slither]

1ntCobra, it seems to me that the aluminum bodied cars from Kirkham all come on a chassis, although I know you can purchase an aluminum body with door, hood and trunk lid separately from Kirkham. All I'm say'in is that SAI, Kirkham and my dealer all told me it was the first powder coated chassis from Kirkham and it was delivered as a roller. Perhaps the term "roller" varies from business to business. Maybe I do have a special car. Good point! It is what it is! What is your beef anyway?

P.S. I took your advice and checked the registry. All the cars do seem to be on a chassis, don't they? I believe the photos you may have taken were possibly 1000 series cars which were produced after my car was built.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by CSX4815

Who cares what the registry says... It's Bills car! You guys have way too much time on your hands...

Oy Vey is right!

So Slither says his car was delivered as a roller from Kirkham to Shelby and he knows that from a conversation with Tom Kirkham. Well that may very well be true, but it is NOT what commonly happens. And if he is implying that all cars shipped from Kirkham to SAI are rollers, well that is just wrong and he is spreading incorrect information. Apparently others have believed that very same misinformation and posted it here as well.

When you are making a choice about purchasing a car as expensive as an aluminum bodied CSX continutation car, you might want to have accurate information to base your choice upon. Maybe you don't care about such a details. Others may care very much. Some people might be proud to say that both the fine craftsmen in Poland and the fine craftsmen at SAI in Vegas worked to produce their stunning aluminum bodied CSX car.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by Slither

1ntCobra, it seems to me that the aluminum bodied cars from Kirkham all come on a chassis, although I know you can purchase an aluminum body with door, hood and trunk lid separately from Kirkham. All I'm say'in is that SAI, Kirkham and my dealer all told me it was the first powder coated chassis from Kirkham and it was delivered as a roller. Perhaps the term "roller" varies from business to business. Maybe I do have a special car. Good point! It is what it is! What is your beef anyway?

P.S. I took your advice and checked the registry. All the cars do seem to be on a chassis, don't they? I believe the photos you may have taken were possibly 1000 series cars which were produced after my car was built.

Perhaps my beef is that an aluminum CSX car is simply not just a Kirkham that SAI stamped a CSX serial number on. It is pretty different animal and some might prefer it over the Kirkham for reasons other than just the Shelby serial number. The fact that it had major assembly work done on it at the Shelby facility might mean that it has more Shelby DNA to it to some people.

If you are not bored by the details of the thread I mentioned, it is easy to tell the Kirkham sourced bodies from the CSX1000 series bodies in the pictures (one clue is the shape of the oil cooler scoop). And so from the pictures you can see that there are Kirkham sourced body and frames that are not rollers.

By the term "roller", I usually think of the end product that you would typically buy from either Shelby or Kirkham. Something with a suspension, wheels, tires, headlights, an interior, gauges, wiring, a windshield, etc. Something that you need to drop an engine and transmission into. Of course Shelby and Kirkham have a slightly different definition of "roller" as one is painted.

[razerwire]

Shelby approved 22 full competion cars to be built by Finishline Motorsports in Las Vegas . Shelby wanted them to use his rear end and had say in some other parts, and had special badges made for cars. The cars were far from full rollers. I think only 12 were finished before Finishline closed.

[razerwire]

Side thought. Does anyone know who signs the M.S.O. now that Shelby is gone?

[marklotus]

Carroll Shelby via autopen and John Luft, President

[Hydramada]

Wow, you guys will fight and argue just for the sake of fighting and arguing.

Locate and drive all three and buy the one YOU like most as suggested in the first response by Mark IV.

[CSX4815]

Originally Posted by Hydramada

Wow, you guys will fight and argue just for the sake of fighting and arguing.

Locate and drive all three and buy the one YOU like most as suggested in the first response by Mark IV.

Exactly! Thank you!

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Hydramada

Wow, you guys will fight and argue just for the sake of fighting and arguing.

Hey, where else can you go and have some one tell you that you wasted all your money and that their replica is best, even though their self-proclaimed best replica is made with fiberglass, when the originals were made with aluminum.

And then, insults nearly every owner of an original 2000 or 3000 series Cobra because they paid more than $150,000 for a simplistic car. I don't think Ferrari GTO's or 250's were complicated either, but sheesh, some folks have paid $10,000,000 for those simplistic cars, give or take a few million. And wait a second, what about those folks that paid $50,000,000 or whatever for a few crappy swirls of paint by Rembrandt, Picasso or Van Gogh.

Oy vey.

[Lucia289]

Originally Posted by DougD

For me, it would be CSX, ERA, and then Superformance.

If I was buying again, I'd try to find a CSX glass 289 USRRC/FIA replica with a snotty small block and Webers. Just perfect.

Or buy the superformance 289 FIA/USRRC - not sure you will spot any difference