more newbie questions

[whiter]

many thanks to all who have responded and spent time educating me.I feel like im off to a good beginners start. I would be interested in any of your opinions on the following 3 questions

(1) do you feel the components on the more well known kit brands they sell match up in quality with the factory cars ie Superformance Backdraft etc?

(2) traditional Carb set up vrs fuel injection pros and cons or just preference


(3) live straight axle vrs 4 wheel independent

I have gotten some very informed imput from the members I have talked to but thought I might get a more broader feedback if I asked here. Thanks in advance for the help I hope to be rolling by Summer

[fordracing65]

1. yes, most parts now days are good parts as long as there new.

2. if you have the cash go fuel injected, it is the one thing i must have on my cars, all around better performance, (mpg, drivability, reliability) a good FI injection will cost around 3 to 6 grand.

3. i like 4 wheel indepented, drives better on street but is more expensive than straight axle. also weighs more than a straight axle. but for drag racing go straight axle more durable.

it comes down to money and originality and drivability

[Three Peaks]

1. On some kits, you will be supplying many of the parts for the build or buying from the kit manufacturer.
This creates some issues you may need to consider if you aren't intimately familiar with chassis building and set up. ( I certainly am not an expert).
Many kits use Mustang II spindles or similar up front on their cars for convenience as they are available anywhere. Unless the chassis is designed around the parts used, the chassis geometry can end up being mismatched resulting in a car that doesn't handle well or is a serious compromise that may not work well on the track, street, or both.

For this reason I would look for kits/manufacturers that have spent the time to work out their geometry and use proper control arms, uprights, rack and pinions, shocks and other parts that work well together. Not all kits are set up this way.

2. Mostly a matter of budget these days. Some of the new injected systems are terrific but nothing wrong with a good carbed set up either as long as you understand the system and know how to get the most out of it. Carb systems tend to be cheaper, but require more maintenance- not a problem as long as you or your mechanic know how to deal with carb adjustments.

3. Independent rear suspensions aren't all that tough to install anymore and many (but not all) of the kit manufacturers offer an Independent rear option on their chassis. I like the Ford 8.8 IRS because of its simplicity and ease of getting parts/repair. The Jag based IRS can also be made to be excellent options, but are more expensive to repair, more difficult to install/remove, and the inboard brake versions can be a real PIA to work on if you don't have a lift.
The Jag based IRS units are usually also heavier if they use the Jag based mounting chassis. The Shelby/Kirkham original style mounting of the Jag IRS is incorporated into the chassis and doesn't require the Jag differential mounting frame.

Bob

[Wbulk]

You know you are going to get a lot of opinions on these questions.

(1) do you feel the components on the more well known kit brands they sell match up in quality with the factory cars ie Superformance Backdraft etc?

Answer:
I know of five brands of cars pretty well and the first thing you need to determine is what brand can you fit in without doing unusual things that would look odd. That may narrow your options down. The key words in your question were "well know brands." Some of the worst brands were also well know after awhile. There are some well-known and quality kit brands like ERA, Hurricane, and FFR. There are also kits that you need a lot of skill to build that can be a stretch to call a kit. The parts on these cars vary greatly as well as the quality of the frame, suspension, brakes and so on. It seems that most companies struggle with putting out a quality manual. It takes a lot of work to put out a detailed quality manual that is up to date and not giving you instructions for a car that was built ten years ago and does not even resemble yours. Know this, few are willing to bad mouth their brand of car for fear they will go out of business and their car may be less valuable.

(2) traditional Carb set up vs. fuel injection pros and cons or just preference
Answer:
There is no question that fuel injection runs a lot better and may be a factor in where the car is registered. You have to decide what weight you put on technology and smooth operation vs. simplicity and maybe originality. I love fuel injection and know the systems pretty well, but I like carburetion and the simplicity of my youth. You have to determine if originality is important to you and to what degree. Carburetion is a lot cheaper but I sure like that Coyote 5.0 and the LS3 engines. Trade offs are tuff!

(3) live straight axle vs 4 wheel independent
Answer:
No question four wheel independent rides better and holds the road better. They are weaker and more expensive in construction and maintenance. It always seemed odd to me that you would put a very high HP FE engine in a light car with big tires and a weak rear differential. For a lower HP engine it would seem ideal.

Just one of many opinions, subject to change when I get smarter.

Wayne

[whiter]

thanks a lot good info. what other not so well know kit cars do you think stack up? also do you think these better kits stack up to the facoty built cars if built correctly? thanks Ryan W

[Wbulk]

You might do some research and read some build forums on the various brands. With most brands they have their good points and bad. Some have a really strong frame but poor glasswork. Others have a great frame and suspension but a poor body. It goes for ever component of the car. Yes, there are several cars that stack up to the factory cars and there are others that can with more work. This is not even taking into consideration customer service. Bad customer service can make a build a nightmare. It is possible the best kit may not be the best company. During these times check out the company along with the quality of the kit. Ask for the names and numbers of the last 5-10 buyers and call them. Don't go with a few select references!!!!! Contact the recent builders and you will learn a ton.

[Jimeg]

If I might add my two cents....First, decide what your intended use of the car is. Do you want a show car, a race car or a weekend or even a daily driver? Second, are you mechanically handy? And Third, What’s your budget? After those decisions are made then I would suggest the selection of a vehicle either it be new or used, factory or kit, and then its components. Once you have the three narrowed down getting assistance or guidance will be much better.

[whiter]

thanks for the info. I am not mechanically handy, and I just want a car for weekend and sunny day cruising. buget is going to be $30k t0 40k I am starting to think a top tier kit car built by a pro might be the better value than a factory car at seemingly a lot more money. so far in my resarch. The things I am still grapling with is 4 wheel independent vrs live I dont want to drag race but like the idea of better handling with the 4 wheel indpendent,but with all the power these caars typically have 4 wheel independent could prove more fragile and costly. Fi sounds the best but I am a purist at heart and I like the original looks of the traditional carb engine. Thanks to all you guys Im learning something

[Leecbr]

(1) do you feel the components on the more well known kit brands they sell match up in quality with the factory cars ie Superformance Backdraft etc?

I'd look into what components are set up on the cobra kits your thinking of buying. Mine has a Mustang 2 front end setup and was easy to upgrade to coilovers etc. The mustang 2 upgrades are quite ubundant. Plus think about how you are going to use your cobra.. What rear gears are on it, will help to determine the rpms it will be running at in 5th or 4th gear on the freeway.. Is it going to be tracked or just a street cruiser.

Find out what year the parts are, and what it's compatible with. For example do they take mustang brakes or lincoln and what years..If it has donor parts what application (year/type of vehicle) did it come off of. Having the replica/kit built from a company/manufacturer that you can contact helps with getting part numbers.

(2) traditional Carb set up vrs fuel injection pros and cons or just preference

Fuel injection is great no doubt. I have a Carb 351 windsor which has many upgrades/replacement parts available. The one advice If you decide to go carb is to get it on a Dyno..Not for horse power but to get it tuned. Tuning is critical to ensure proper timing and jet settings. You don't ever want to run a carb engine lean. Plus the best thing I did for my carb was to have a manual choke installed. It starts on the first turn of the key..every time. Upgrading or changing out the fuel pump is good too. For me it was good to know it was new and wasn't going to fail on me.

My engine has been very reliable. I drove it into work 2 to 3 days a week last summer and fall. Went on many long weekend cruises no issues...The cobra is so light gas consumption never felt outragious. I even romped on the gas plenty...

I had mine dynoed, unbelievable the difference after it was dynoed. Pretty affordable to have dynoed. It cost me under 200 bucks. Personaly I like the carb setup. I like the sound and the convienience of fixing minor things myself. I too am not much of a mechanic. Good at swapping things out and torqing bolts.


(3) live straight axle vrs 4 wheel independent

I'm running on a ford 9 inch rear axle with rear slip. The difference was changing out the Coil springs and shocks on the rear. It rides great..quite nice for street use...

I'm no expert just some personal experiences. Drop me a line if you have any other questions.

[Drivetrain1]

The 9" ford is just a lot stronger than the 8.8" ford, especially if you are doing some track time. The 8.8" ring & pinion can be improved by REM micro finishinig.

[Jimeg]

With your budget, I would discount the fuel injection which will, in my opinion add a minimum of $6K and on the used market they are harder to come by. Depending upon your engine choices I think it would be possible for you to get into a new Back Draft at the high end of your budget . http://www.backdraftracing.com/ Not knowing what part of the country your in, I suggest you call Jay Lenke at Vintage Motorsports. http://vintage-motorsports.com/
Jay is good people and will give you alot of direction & assistance.
even if you don't get togethr with him. 1-888-427-1965

[dlampe]

I have had Superformance and Backdraft "factory built" cars as well as B&B, Hurricanes, Kirkham and RCR kits. First, the ride difference on the IRS is imperceptible. You will not feel the difference unless you are on the very edge and driving the the sh!t out of your car. I have had quite a few of both and the ride is more about the springs, shocks and tires. The IRS is cool and you will get more for a car with it, most of the time. At least most of the higher end cars come that way so it is the standard. The 9 inch vs 8.8 is not a big deal unless you are a serious drag racer. Your tires will spin before you put enough torque on the rear end to break anything. That is the easiest of your questions. Next is the fuel delivery. You will have more trouble free miles with a Holley, vacuum secondary, electric choke carburetor. My fuel injection cars ran awesome but it is not the same as your daily driver. It takes time and money to tune the injection and even then some people never get it set right.

Know for the harder question. Kit vs Factory build. Let me first say that just because it is factory built doesn't mean it is right. Don't believe the commercial they will try to spin. Ask to see numbers for the bump steer,corner balance, wheel rate, etc. (if thats important to you). As an example, my Kirkham cobra and my Superformance GT40 would fail the bump steer test but they both felt great to drive. I didn't realize what a correct set up felt like until I built the RCR GT40. I had it set up by a professional race team. It didn't come setup because I built it but it was super adjustable. You can correct or set up most of these cars but don't think for a minute that they come with the optimal settings already dialed in. If a manufacturer doesn't have the numbers to show you, assume that it isn't set up and will require adjustment. As for parts, that is pretty subjective too. Backdraft has BMW stuff but is less adjustable than some of the others. It is also more expensive to service than Ford parts or widely used aftermarket stuff. It does have an awesome ride, very smooth. The kits can be built with the parts you choose so if you go cheap, thats what you get. If you get the factory built standard stuff, it is going to be standard stuff but upgrades are available. I don't think you can make to many assumption when you are looking at cobras. The first thing to do is very specifically outline what is important to you. Then come back to the forum and ask the questions but always look at what car the guy owns when he gives you an answer. We are all partial to what we drive or we wouldn't have bought it. I hope that helps.

Here's a link to my build thread for my latest project with Hurricane, Hurricane HMS2002 build thread part II

Send me a note if you have any questions you want to ask off line. I'll be happy to help.

Dean

[Slick61]

Originally Posted by whiter

thanks for the info. I am not mechanically handy, and I just want a car for weekend and sunny day cruising. buget is going to be $30k t0 40k I am starting to think a top tier kit car built by a pro might be the better value than a factory car at seemingly a lot more money. so far in my resarch. The things I am still grapling with is 4 wheel independent vrs live I dont want to drag race but like the idea of better handling with the 4 wheel indpendent,but with all the power these caars typically have 4 wheel independent could prove more fragile and costly. Fi sounds the best but I am a purist at heart and I like the original looks of the traditional carb engine. Thanks to all you guys Im learning something

If you're looking at having a "top tier kit" professionally built, I think you'd still be at the upper limit of your budget... if not over. Once you purchase the kit ($20k-$30k+), you also have to purchase the powertrain ($5k-$10k minimum)... then add $5k to $10k for paint & bodywork... not to mention accessories & add-ons. Plus, there's the assembly labor... and a "pro" won't come cheap. For your intended use, I think you'd be better served buying a pre-owned car that's been sorted out & broken in. Yes... you could build a nice car for that budget, if you built it yourself, but I think it's a bit of a stretch to HAVE one built for that amount.

[fordracing65]

Buy a used superformance, if you want a carb there are alot out there at your price $40,000. It will have everything you like IRS, good quality components, and it will drive very well. Also there are alot of guys with the car. But any cobra is cool, just think its a cobra.

[whiter]

very informative thanks

[rustyBob]

If your not a mechanic and you want a fun dependable car to go out and get into trouble with then stay with the carb. and 9 inch rear end....easy to maintain and dependable as the day is long....and well within your budget...

[CobraEd]

Fuel injection adds no power over a good carb/manifold setup. This has been proven many times over. What it does add is overall drivability and cold start throttle response and drivability. You will need to decide if that is important to you for the aditional expense. Also, depending on the system, fuel injection may not look as cool or authentic as a carb in a mid 60's style car.

A carb can work well with a radical cam and give you the desired Cobra like lumpy idle. Fuel injection in most cases will not work with a radical cam as it needs a good vacume signal at idle. As such, you may have to do away with the traditional lumpy idle with fuel injection.


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