Premier Motorsports incomplete cars for sale on ebay

[jayhawk261]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Did you read his comment above (I've now requoted in Red)



Earl apparently is the seller of these unbuilt, partial kits. Cynical I may be, but I have seen far too many first time posters coming in that turn out to be shills, friends, or relatives of the seller(s) who are "just asking questions" about a specific item. if I am wrong, then I apologize for being so. However, if I am not, then I'll stand by my original posts on this thread. Yet still, you have to remember, the company is out of business, the kits are impartial and incomplete in nature, and the OP is now going down the same path as those who have bought such great deals as incomplete CMC kits as well.

Bill S.

I don't believe that Earl's is the seller of the the kits. I think the OP is saying that Earl's is a source of parts that he could rely on to build the car if he chose to purchase it.

Premier Motorsports is in Kansas City,KS and they are affiliated with an an engine shop I have used from time to time. I have seen all of these cars in person (although nothing more than a glance). The guys that run the shop are straight forward and have been helpful to me when I've brought them engine stuff. I can't imagine that would be anything other than helpful to whoever buys the cars.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by BT SNAKE

Bill,

I'm pretty sure if someone buys those parts the owner of the defunct premiere Cobras will help him with what he can.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Hersh

Hersh,

No worries, I'd just hate for a prospective buyer to fall for what was said about the company in the distant (like the thread from 03-02-2004) past as being current, when in fact, it is a ten year old, highly outdated thread. I'll stand by my original thread that even if the OP is just an interested buyer without any connection to the Ebay seller, he is still in for years of hunting for parts that will work with what is listed in the auction, and that he will have $40,000-$60,000 invested in the finished product (with a retail value of $34,000-$38,000 if he is lucky).


Having been around these Cobra kits since 1979, I've seen a lot of good people fall into these "great, once in a lifetime" deals, only to lose their minds, and their hard earned money trying to resurrect incomplete kits, by defunct companies. I personally cannot see allowing that to happen to a fellow enthusiast, not ever. Hence my cynical side

Bill S.

[Three Peaks]

Bill makes a good point. If the OP is looking for way to build a Cobra on a relative budget, this is not the way to go. You will have many hours of chasing parts, even with the help of a list from the seller of all the parts needed and part numbers to help with the search. In this case, a nice kit from a company that is strong and noted for support like Factory Five, Unique, Backdraft, or any number of others would be a better alternative.

However, if the OP is looking for a project that he can accomplish the way he wants and has originality in mind, this may be the way to get there. From all accounts I've read or heard from others, Premier were a very good and expensive kit with excellent components and first class engineering and design.

Go in with your eyes open and you can't hardly make a mistake as long as you're prepared for some fab work, some online searching for parts, and lots of trips to the hardware store for small parts like bolts, nuts, screws, etc.....

If you get serious about it, send me an email and I'll try to help you through the process.

Bob

[Captain222]

Bill,
The Earl's I was referring to is Earl's plumbing, typically known for their race car plumbing. With some measurements, I can get the appropriate suspension hardware and such from them. AED Motorsports would supply my chromoly, along with other local suppliers that cater to the motorsports industry in Indianapolis.
I appreciate all of the in depth responses. Hersh, I most certainly don't want to get caught spending years doing my first Cobra build. What got me interested were past reviews of the on the track performance. I don't want something that just looks good. My goal is to spend 1-2 years to build one, a realistic budget, and it would be helpful to have contact with former owner/builders when I have questions.
I'm still trying to look at pictures of similar fiberglass bodies cars to see exactly what all needs to be fabricated. If I decide to go further, I'll PM you Bob.

[Captain222]

Somehow the response got reposted....

[BT SNAKE]

Good conversation guys. I'm sure by reading this thread it would be helpful to anyone wanting a starter.
By the way... Here's a photo of a Premiere. Now put a photo of a fiber bodied Shelby next to it and see if you can tell the difference.

Hersh

[BT SNAKE]

Here's an old thread that might interest you.
Feedback on Premier Motorsports Cars?

Hersh

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by BT SNAKE

Here's an old thread that might interest you.
Feedback on Premier Motorsports Cars?

Hersh

Hersh,

The problem is, the threads found are from 2003, we are now in 2014, very little in between which makes you wonder about what the OP will be getting himself in to. Again, if he has high fabrication skills, is a certified welder, and have wholesale connections in the automotive aftermarket, he will be just fine. If he has none of those, then he is going to be in trouble in a short time. Did Premier build a nice car, absolutely, is the left over scraps being sold on Ebay a great deal, no, not at all by any stretch of the imagination. If they were, then they would have been snatched up long ago. To me, it's a throwback to those CSX3000 frames that mysteriously appeared (after CS paid McClusky to weld them up in the 90's).......Leftovers are just that, scraps of what once was a great kit.


To the OP, look really close at what is being offered, I have, and I passed, and I have been taking over peoples unfinished project cobras for 20+ years. If it was such a great deal, someone would have already bought all of them.


Bill S.

PS: Earl's is fine for certain things, but not finding you everything you will need to complete this assemblage of parts. Nuts and bolts, A&N fittings, sure, when you can figure out exactly what you will need (there is no parts list included in that Ebay sale, nor were there any that detailed when they were being sold new). Trial and error will be very expensive, but it's your money, do what you want with it.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Hersh,

...

To me, it's a throwback to those CSX3000 frames that mysteriously appeared (after CS paid McClusky to weld them up in the 90's).......Leftovers are just that, scraps of what once was a great kit.

...

Bill,

That analogy make no sense to me. Why would you consider the McCluskey frames to be leftover scrap? They are compatible with original cobras, so it is well known how to put a car together with them. I am sure when Shelby failed to sell more than a few of the $500k completion cars with the McCluskey parts that the McCluskey parts inventory was scavenged to build the much less expensive CSX4000 continuation cars.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Hersh,

...

To the OP, look really close at what is being offered, I have, and I passed, and I have been taking over peoples unfinished project cobras for 20+ years. If it was such a great deal, someone would have already bought all of them.

...

Captain222,

I have seen Bill take unfinished cobra projects and/or used cobras, finish them or fix them up and resell them. He does not do that out of the goodness of his heart, he does it as a business to make money. So I think it is worth listening to his opinion on the ebay project you are considering.

Look at what you are getting for $8500 in the pictures in the eBay listing. Then compare that to what you get for $12990 for a FFR base kit.

https://www.factoryfive.com/kits/mk4.../what-you-get/

The eBay listing does not look like a bargain to me.

Although maybe you are not looking for a bargain, maybe you like a challenge?

Actually, why don't you tell us what you are looking for in a cobra replica. A track car, a show car, a meticulously accurate replica of an original, a grocery getter, a project to work on in your garage on weekends for a few years? And how much do you want to spend? Usually if you answer those questions, you will get some useful advice from Bill and others.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

Bill,

That analogy make no sense to me. Why would you consider the McCluskey frames to be leftover scrap? They are compatible with original cobras, so it is well known how to put a car together with them. I am sure when Shelby failed to sell more than a few of the $500k completion cars with the McCluskey parts that the McCluskey parts inventory was scavenged to build the much less expensive CSX4000 continuation cars.

Bill,

I was thinking. I suspect that if you found a good deal on an unfinished Contemporary kit that you would not consider that scrap even though that company has long been out of business. The difference being, there seems to be plenty of knowledge on what is needed to complete one of those kits.

[Captain222]

I'm looking for something that looks like a Cobra, is track oriented & competitive, something that will be desired, hold its value and sell easily if I do a nice show quality installation of the parts. Since I already have more than my fair share of grocery getters with automatic transmissions around the house, I'm looking for something to have fun in. I'm looking for a project that does not have to be re-invented and can be done during nights and weekends. Maybe that reinvention could come with my second build, well after I'm familiar with what's needed and I already have one that runs. I'm looking at $30k tops this first time out and was hoping to come across something that's worth the effort but being sold either unstarted or unfinished that's being offered at a substantial savings, so I can put the savings into brakes, engine, and paint.

[Captain222]

1ntCobra,
I was recently contacted by a member of Hoosier Cobra through this site. We spoke a little while ago on the phone and it appears the club consists of numerous Cobra kits available on the market today. While I'm looking for a good deal to get into building, I'm not rushed to buy. Hopefully I will get enough opportunities to ride in the passenger seat to give me an idea as to what I want to buy. At worse, I wait for a while and attend the London Cobra Show.

[Trueoo7]

If the product was so good, what happened to the business?

[NewYorkGuy]

Originally Posted by Captain222

I'm looking for something that looks like a Cobra, is track oriented & competitive, something that will be desired, hold its value and sell easily if I do a nice show quality installation of the parts. Since I already have more than my fair share of grocery getters with automatic transmissions around the house, I'm looking for something to have fun in. I'm looking for a project that does not have to be re-invented and can be done during nights and weekends. Maybe that reinvention could come with my second build, well after I'm familiar with what's needed and I already have one that runs. I'm looking at $30k tops this first time out and was hoping to come across something that's worth the effort but being sold either unstarted or unfinished that's being offered at a substantial savings, so I can put the savings into brakes, engine, and paint.

listen to MrMustang
no need to reinvent the Cobra, just buy a used corvette with a real title

[BT SNAKE]

On the first page is a link to the eBay sale. Go to the bottom of that page. It pretty well explains what happened.

You know guys, it's pretty obvious this offering isn't for everybody. I'm one that it would be perfect for. The simple reason is that it's what I like in a Cobra. It's not a big hassle for me to find parts for a Cobra like that because I know where to look. I'm a fair to middling fabricator and I spent my teenage years in my Dads body shop. I built my first car when I was in high school in 63. Since then I've built more hot rods than I care to mention. I might be the exception but there are plenty out there like me still. Hell, I once built a 23 T from scratch just from leftover parts. I bet I had under $800 in it. You get what you're willing to put in it. Profit has never been my motivator. The journey of learning is what does it for me.
Bill, if this stuff was bad I would have said so. I know the owner and I'll vouch for him because I know him to be honest. Even the Kirkhams agree and as said so. If the price doesn't fit then move on especially after someone has vouched honestly for that person. I respectfully disagree with your analogies but that's OK. It's alright to agree to disagree. At least theres enough info here one can decide what they want to do.
Hersh

[rlrichins]

If you do this it will be important that you keep a good record of the parts you purchase or have to design and develop. At some point in time someone will need to make repairs on the car (possibly a new owner down the road) and this info would very beneficial.

[Captain222]

My email about the parts inquiry was replied to several days ago and while the company that is no longer producing parts, they still have an engineering department along with information that can be passed onto the end buyer. An employee provided me with his phone number and we spoke last night about the parts that need fabricated. The parts needed for the most part are the radiator support, motor mounts, and transmission mount area, all parts that are case specific on the engine/transmission chosen by the owner. I did not want to do redesigning of major structural parts that would possibly add weight or change the engineering, which would alter the original intent and performance. That is not the case here, so I will see about making the drive to KS during the holidays to look things over in person.
The business can no longer provide MSOs, so I've got to check with my state on what I can title it as and the steps.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by Captain222

The business can no longer provide MSOs, so I've got to check with my state on what I can title it as and the steps.

In that case, you can start with Indiana MV form "12907" entitled "Application for special ID number". That along with proof of purchase and receipt of payment should get the ball rolling for you.



Bill S.