Premier Motorsports incomplete cars for sale on ebay

[Captain222]

Hello. I have not been able to find anything about how to approach cars that are incomplete factory left overs.

There appear to be 6 unfinished assemblies from what use to be Premier Motorsports. For the body, suspension, and chassis the seller is asking $8,500.
The past write ups I've come across and read online about the quality and performance of this companies Cobras look good but what concerns me is how much needs to be sourced and the lack of instructions. While I can source the parts separately, would I end up spending more time and money ordering what's needed than just ordering a comparative kit that would come at once? Is there any advantage to this kind of purchase for a first time builder? Lastly, what's the going price for such projects online?

[Jim Kellogg]

I am unfamiliar with the kit, but here is a link to the eBay auction.
Replica Kit Makes Cobra 427 SC | eBay

My opinion is that you don't know exactly where to start this project with these pieces, this is probably not the right way for you to start your build. Proceed with care, because any build is probably going to take more time and money than you anticipated.

Good luck and happy hunting!
Jim Kellogg

[mrmustang]

We will assume that you read this very dated thread from 2004

Did you get suckered by the posters who fed you a line of PR?

Originally Posted by Captain222

Hello. I have not been able to find anything about how to approach cars that are incomplete factory left overs.

There appear to be 6 unfinished assemblies from what use to be Premier Motorsports. For the body, suspension, and chassis the seller is asking $8,500.
The past write ups I've come across and read online about the quality and performance of this companies Cobras look good but what concerns me is how much needs to be sourced and the lack of instructions. While I can source the parts separately, would I end up spending more time and money ordering what's needed than just ordering a comparative kit that would come at once? Is there any advantage to this kind of purchase for a first time builder? Lastly, what's the going price for such projects online?

Ok let's start with the basics, a low volume company goes out of business. Within their warehouse are 6 partial kits, why are these partial, because the some of the parts were hand built in house, and are not available from the aftermarket.

So, the question(s) to you is, how handy are you?
Do you own a welder?
Do you have engineering skills?
Can you fabricate from scratch?
Do you know where to source every nut and bolt that is not included?

At $8,600, by the time you are done building and re-engineering the car, expect to have $35,000-$55,000 in the car.
Is the car worth it when you are done, or would you be better off finding a completed car, from a known quality manufacturer, and buying that one instead?
Then again, do you believe that you have the wherewithal to see this project through from start to finish?

Now the fun part really begins, titling the car. Does the $8,600 erector set include a Federally recognized Manufacturers Certificate of Ownership in your name?

If you answered no to more than two of the above questions, then you already know that it is not for you.


Bill S.

[Three Peaks]

That could be a tough one. If you are a scratch builder like me, you would probably jump on that project as long as you could find a reference to determine what parts would fit the existing parts- which bearings and hubs for the rear uprights, what front spindles/hubs to fit the control arms, what other parts are needed to complete the chassis, etc....

If you're not ready for a lot of surprises and lots of time spent online and making phone calls to get information, measurements, etc.... then don't even consider this package. However, if you're up for a challenge, that is a pretty good price for all the pieces you get and most of the other parts are available from other sources- but some won't be cheap.

Bob

[BT SNAKE]

If I had the bucks I would be all over that deal. The premier is one of the best kits out there in my opinion. The frames are bullet proof. They are clones to the original with some modern suspensions up grades. Anyone that attended Run & Gun when Chuck Nickloy was there would know what a great car the Premiere is. His Cobra was the fastest Cobra I have ever been in. The quality of the parts were the highest level. The welds are top notch and the fiberglass is as good if not better than most.
I've always said to myself that if I ever do another it would be a Premier kit.
If you care to compare, look at a Shelby frame then a Premiere. You'll know right away what I'm talking about. If you need instructions all you need do is look at some Shelby Glass builds. I'm sure Premiere may send you some.

Hersh

[Three Peaks]

I sent them an email to determine if there would be some support in the form of lists of parts needed to complete this build and places to purchase. No response yet....

Bob

[1985 CCX]

Big project. Phew
Bill is right about the cost. In the end will it be worth it?
Generally scratch cars are more accurate and that helps value if its quality.
However a scratch car is a great reflection of the builder if done right.
Go with your gut.

Best of luck.

[Captain222]

mrmustang,
I have restored a 1965 Mustang and worked on other various builds. I enjoy taking the time to do things methodically and right compared to some shops that have left me with unsatisfactory work over the years. I'm located near Indianapolis, so I have plenty of access to shops like Earl's that can supply me hardware and related parts to get such a project rolling.
What you mentioned about the MSO certificate is valid. I've written the seller and asked him for that and a list of sizes, specs and parts needed, which would make it a roller faster than months of back and forth trips to Indy for parts.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by Captain222

mrmustang,
I have restored a 1965 Mustang and worked on other various builds. I enjoy taking the time to do things methodically and right compared to some shops that have left me with unsatisfactory work over the years. I'm located near Indianapolis, so I have plenty of access to shops like Earl's that can supply me hardware and related parts to get such a project rolling.
What you mentioned about the MSO certificate is valid. I've written the seller and asked him for that and a list of sizes, specs and parts needed, which would make it a roller faster than months of back and forth trips to Indy for parts.

Since you are on a first name basis with the seller, why didn't you just say you were fronting for him when you came here instead of attempting otherwise?


Bill S.

[Captain222]

Bill,
I'm not on a first name basis with the ebay seller. There's no way I'm going to consider parting with any money unless he addresses my questions, which by the way I've sent three messages now since the first question without any return. To me, it's too much of a gamble for the price and no list of parts or final technical support/specs given to buyers to help finish the items in a timely manner. I'm not trying to help sell these kits that are unknown to me, as was suggested on another thread. I've restored my father's Mustang, a sailboat and a vintage biplane that had poorly done plans.

I just figured I'd use this site to help me save a few headaches that I encounter when getting into a new build. So please excuse my presence by asking a few questions,while attempting to save some time and money. If this one does not pan out, you'll probably see me post questions about another models that I'm looking at. I am looking for a project to build that will be built with performance abilities in mind, not something that's been done by someone else.-Jeff

[redmt]

I skimmed through the EBAY listing and it gave a short list of some of the additional components needed.

mr.mustang,,, I don't understand what your being all pissy about? Did 222 do something to you? Just askin'

[redmt]

Double post

[Three Peaks]

Jeff,
Bill may be getting a little cynical in his old age.... but we have seen many schemes on this forum to help sell someone else's problem vehicle with varying results.... Regardless, Bill has more experience with more types of Cobras than probably anyone on this forum or anywhere for that matter.

If it were me, given the reputation of the Premier Kits, and you have the wherewithal to take on a project of this sort, I would jump on this opportunity. Tempered with the knowledge that you could find a listing of the parts you would need to complete the package or make up your own set up to work. I had to build my own control arms and many other parts for my Cobra as I didn't have the cash to purchase original style pieces at the time ($15K). I used Mustang II spindles up front and a Ford 8.8 IRS in the rear with the Ford IRS uprights. At least this kit has the rear uprights and control arms and the front control arms. Somewhere in the ad I believe I read that these take a 85 mustang front spindles and Ford Explorer rear end, assuming the IRS unit that is similar to the Tbird supercoupe unit that FF5, Superformance, and others use in their build. In the other thread I believe there is a phone number given out. It may be worth a phone call to get some info from the "horses mouth" so to speak so you can get your questions answered. It is obvious they aren't good about returning emails then or now, from the discussion on the other thread.

Once the suspension and steering set up is taken care of, most of the rest is just sourcing parts. We have a pretty good scratchbuild community here on Club Cobra, so if you need some assistance with finding parts and other information to move along with your build just ask away. I'm sure someone here will have an answer. I know I wouldn't have been able to finish my Cobra without these guys help and now I hope I can help the next guy with his build .

Good luck with whatever project you end up with.

Bob

[Captain222]

Bob,
Thanks for the info and suggestions. I've been quick to jump on a few great sounding car deals that I've found on ebay and such over the years. Had I actually committed myself to some research, I may not have lost as much money or washed my hands of the project by reselling it. As an ebay member, I work hard at communicating with interested buyers. When I don't get replies to questions that could make or break the sale to me, especially for such a price tag, I'm left not wanting to buy it. I'm going to wait and see if this seller contacts me but I'm glad to hear that the scratch build community could help me out.
-Jeff

[1985 CCX]

Not saying don't do it. Just understand long road.
Never saw a Premier car first hand. Almost bought a complete kit before they went away.
Do what makes you happy.
Do what you can afford.
Then drive it everywhere.
Jeff

[BT SNAKE]

I do know the seller. You can be suspect all you want but that won't change the fact he is a straight up guy. The stuff he is selling is quality stuff. However, if a
Buyer gets it and has little or no experience assembling a car then he's going to have problems because of a learning curve. Not saying it can't be done, it will just take longer due to the time it takes to learn the ropes.
Take a look at those suspension components in the photos. Now go to where there is a bare Shelby or Kirkham frame and compare. You'll see what I mean real quick.

Hersh

[Three Peaks]

Hersh,
I don't think anyone here has cast any negative feedback on the seller as much as recognizing this is a very incomplete kit with very little information. If someone wanted to take on this project (including me), it would be immensely helpful to have the information needed to supply the huge number of additional parts to complete the build without reinventing the wheel. Since the seller is the only one with that information, hopefully he would be willing to share that with prospective buyers or at least the availability of the information in order to facilitate a sale.

I've done it the hard way- bought a partially completed chassis and a body and nothing else and had to source all of the parts, design a bunch of them, ask a ton of questions, learn about how to design certain parts and fabricate others that didn't exist, etc.... and I wouldn't want to go that route again- even though I know the process now and could do it easily the 2nd time around.

Just talked to the owner on the phone- very nice guy and very helpful with my questions.
He gave me quite a bit of information on the difficult parts to determine so this would be a rather easy build, IMHO.
The rear end is Ford Explorer 8.8 IRS, rear uprights take Ford explorer bearings and Explorer hubs redrilled for Mustang bolt pattern (5 x 4.5), front spindles/hubs are 85 mustang with Pinto tie rod ends to go with the supplied rack. He also has other information available to the buyer, but doesn't want to be a long term source of information through the build as they want to put this thing to bed and not be saddled with it- which is understandable.

Most of the other parts needed- instruments, windshields, fuel filler caps, engines, trans, etc... can be more easily sourced and shouldn't be a problem for most people taking on this build, IMHO.

Bob

[BT SNAKE]

Bob,
Your point is well taken. I totally understand where you're coming from. I guess my point is that if you just buy a frame and body it will cost way above the price on the eBay sale and I don't believe you'll get any better quality in design and fabrication than the Premiere.
Don't mean to say anyone is being disparaging. Only want to say to a prospective buyer that they are dealing with an honest person known through my own personal experience. Also that I know the quality that's there for the price. I'm sure the seller will provide a detail list of required parts. Most of that exterior and interior stuff is available through many other suppliers.

Hersh

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by redmt

I skimmed through the EBAY listing and it gave a short list of some of the additional components needed.

mr.mustang,,, I don't understand what your being all pissy about? Did 222 do something to you? Just askin'

Did you read his comment above (I've now requoted in Red)

Originally Posted by Captain222

mrmustang,
I'm located near Indianapolis, so I have plenty of access to shops like Earl's that can supply me hardware and related parts to get such a project rolling.

Earl apparently is the seller of these unbuilt, partial kits. Cynical I may be, but I have seen far too many first time posters coming in that turn out to be shills, friends, or relatives of the seller(s) who are "just asking questions" about a specific item. if I am wrong, then I apologize for being so. However, if I am not, then I'll stand by my original posts on this thread. Yet still, you have to remember, the company is out of business, the kits are impartial and incomplete in nature, and the OP is now going down the same path as those who have bought such great deals as incomplete CMC kits as well.

Bill S.

[BT SNAKE]

Bill,
I understand about what you're saying. That's a good thing to try and point these things. Especially to unsuspecting buyers.
I need to clarify something, it's not the seller unless it's one and the same. It's the person that owned built and designed the Premiere kits that I know. I just want any prospective buyer that I believe he is getting his monies worth on those items for the price.
I'm pretty sure if someone buys those parts the owner of the defunct premiere Cobras will help him with what he can.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Hersh