CSX 2000 Street Cars --- Were Chokes Used ?

[tkb289]

For the street 289 Cobras, did they come with a choke ?

If so, were they electric or manual ?

If a manual choke was used, any photos out there, as to choke pull knob location on the dash ?

Thanks!

[LMH]

Hey Tim
I was looking at a COX 289 in San Diego a couple months ago and it had a pull choke knob on the dash. Lower right of the speedo, about the 5 0'clock position but above the ignition switch. I'm not sure if the CSX cars were the same though. May have depended on optional carb set up or not.
HTH,
Larry

[tkb289]

Larry,

Thanks ... let's see if anyone else has seen one.

[Dan Case]

Most Cobras with 1-4V (several Ford 4100-A models between prototypes and C4OF-AT or optional Holley® 4V) or 2-4V (mid-September 1963 and later option) used automatic chokes operated by hot air pulled from the outside of one exhaust header.

Cobras that received engines manufactured between about the third week of May 1964 and the end of July 1964 received manual choke carburetors (Ford 4100-A C4OF-AL).

About the sixtyish very late Cobras cars completed after August 1964 received a manual choke model 1-4V system (Ford 4100-A C4OF-AL w/manual transmissions & Ford 4100-A C4OF-AT w/High Performance C4 automatic transmissions) or the previous 2-4V system with automatic choke. For the late cars with manual choke the knob placement was not consistent. There were a couple of common locations. The best source of period photographs is magazine articles covering new car road tests 1963-64.

Two (2) street Cobras and one (1) Cobra sold as a Stage I Competition car were delivered with some version of early 1965 MUSTANG GT350 carburetor during the year 1965. (I had the R-3259A carburetor, dated 4B5, from CSX2555 for two decades. It was manufactured in the second of the two weeks R-3259A models were produced in December 1964 at the first design level of carburetors were made in. The first two production runs of units (R-3259A design level) were essentially R-2668 assemblies with different fuel bowl assemblies, manual choke, and an external fuel transfer tube system. The original unrestored very nice condition R-3259A factory installed on CSX2555 by Shelby’s works was sold to the owner of 1965 MUSTANG GT350 SFM5026 in 2007.)

[LMH]

Tim
Here's a pic of COX6057 and the dash. Sorry I didn't shoot a better one showing the choke. As Dan said, I'm sure there are different locations and some not at all.
Larry

[Dan Case]

COX and COB cars finished in the UK have many differences small and large with CSX ones finished in the USA even if the chassis were built in the same time frame. Early CSX cars had all kinds of variations because more than one location on different sides of the country did the final assembly; every crew did things a little differently. As for COX6057, there is no mention in the SAAC Registry about it being fitted with any special engine equipment when first completed so I would wonder when the current induction system was installed and by whom. The Registry indicates the car had a Holley® carburetor in 1975 but no mention of how it got there. (Very few new Cobras, nine I believe, were documented to have been finished and delivered as new cars with any design or model of Holley carburetor.)


The majority of Cobras were finished in Venice California and most of them had hot air operated automatic chokes; 4100 series Autolite® 1-4V or two Carter® 4Vs. A few early cars received Holley carburetors with hot air operated automatic chokes; one was featured in a new car road test. Of the late cars finished with some type manual choke 1-4V only three Cobras were documented as being completed with high rise intake and Holley carburetor and those were CSX2497, CSX2553, and CSX2555. These cars were finished with GT350 intakes and manual choke carburetors, again based on what SAAC has documented. Of the cars finished after August 1964 that received ‘factory installed’ manual chokes there were two primary locations for the choke knob on the dash that I have found, one left of the steering wheel and one right of the steering wheel and other instruments. The exact location for each category seems to have depended on who put the hole in the dash, i.e. based on new car photos it doesn’t appear the assembly team used a template to locate the mounting holes but rather general guidelines.

[Joy]

Tim, these were in a book I have.

[tkb289]

Thanks to all for the info.

Dan ... Interesting history and the differences between the early and late CSX 2000 cars. Probably few cars were done exactly the same way, then add 40 plus years to the equation and that would pretty much make each surviving car a unique example.

[Dan Case]

Originally Posted by tkb289

Probably few cars were done exactly the same way, then add 40 plus years to the equation and that would pretty much make each surviving car a unique example.

Batches cars were completed with some ‘time of installation details’ of some consistency but in general the details small and large were terribly confounded because nothing seems to be in strict sequential order. Engines weren't assembled by Ford in the sequence the blocks were numbered, evidence suggests engines removed from stock for installation into cars were pulled in random order, and of course chassis were not completed into cars in order.

When I am trying to help individual owners sort out what would be likely for their particular cars a lot of information has to be gathered to make even an educated guess. When was the block made, when was the engine assembled, when was the chassis shipped from AC Cars, what Ford model year was the engine, when was the car completed and invoiced. From those dates and factoids a likely configuration can guessed at and not be real far off. To do a great job on a particular car takes a lot of investigation and comparison to other engines and cars finished in the same short time frames.

Modified, yes. I have been around the car hobby since 1961 and seen and done a lot. Cobras and 427 Cobras have to be just about the most owner modified types of cars ever besides some of the 1932 Fords. It is not common but it is not super rare either to find a Cobra that maybe 90% of its original content is still with it but maybe 90% of the 90% modified in some way or another. Think of polishing and chrome plating everything in the engine bay for example. To return such a car to its day one specification would probably mean finding unmodified replacements for every plated piece from another original car that got converted to a racer and isn’t using the original stuff anyway. Owners have had decades to weld things on, cut things out, relocate things, add things, delete things, grind things, drill holes, fill holes, polish, plate, bend, reshape, throw original parts in the trash, and of course damage all manner of things in crashes.

There are getting to be a few owners here and there interested in taking their Cobras that they might have been playing with for decades back closer to as delivered condition. It is usually not easy and you might be surprised why engine parts are so tough; they weren’t Mustang parts. I have talked with many dismantlers and used parts sellers small and large volume. For the most part unless they can sell a used piece to a Mustang owner that part has little or no commercial interest to them. I went to a yard that dismantled maybe 200 pre-Mustang era Falcons, Fairlanes, Comets, etc. and the vast majority of if went off to be melted down. On the other hand anything from a Mustang was kept and stored waiting a buyer. Most Cobras have 1963-64 Fairlane engine parts. If most salvage operations more or less discard anything that won’t go on a 1965 or later Mustang that means Cobra owners have a tough time finding a 1963 Fairlane parts. Ford made and used countless 289 and HP289 engine parts in 1963-64 but relatively few seem to have survived the melt pots except for cylinder blocks. A lot of what can be found is in poor condition.

[KarlCSX2498]

Hello, CSX2498 has a manual pull choke located on the left side of the dash under and to the left of the tach, it has a regular black fluted knob with a chrome bezel and "choke" embossed into the bezel.
later, karl

[PANAVIA]

Don't forget the first cobras used automate 4100 carburetors , Tim you may want to pick a time period , then find an example csx number and follow that emulation, like 2289 that we saw at Saac 35,

There were so many changes with each smattering of cars ( even the gt350 had this same problem ) have differences within a particular model year,

Depending on the detail in question, one can go mad.

Steve

[Dan Case]

Originally Posted by PANAVIA

Don't forget the first cobras used automate 4100 carburetors Steve

Steve,
The "first" car CSX2000 and some other early cars are either shown in period photographs or documented with factory paper work (CSX2018 for example) with Holley® brand carburetors. One exception for sure was CSX2006 which was finished new with a 2V carburetor. One very early HP260 powered car has its engine equipment shown very well in a new car road test article in a magazine, Holley carburetor on an aluminum low rise 1-4V intake and yes an automatic choke.

Documentation is lacking on most details but Ford Autolite® 4100s didn't seem to become the 'standard' until HP289 engines made their appearance.

Dan