What S/W Gauges for 289 FIA

[B.M.B.C]

Guys I'm considering building a 289 Fia cobra, what are the SW gauges that was fitted to the Fia style cars?

Thanks

[LMH]

http://www.stewartwarner.net/SW%20Pages/swgaug13.html
Larry

[B.M.B.C]

Thanks, where the best place to obtain to rare larger size pressure gauge and a Jones 4" tach

Cheers

[LMH]

As far as I know, and I'm sure no expert on SW gauges but all of the secondary SW gauges used on FIA models were 2 5/8". Some original cars I've seen that were modified for racing used a mixture of standard street gauges (2 1/16") and comp gauges (2 5/8"), so I'm wondering if what you're thinking about is the larger comp fuel pressure gauge mixed with standard street guages. I've even seen Sun, Smiths and SW on the same dash!

I'd say the best place to find a 60's vintage Jones Motorola tach would be eBay. I think they were mechanical drive too, so just so you know that. You'd need to have a dist w/tach drive. Maybe there is a repro out there but I don't know of any.

Sorry I can't be more help!
Larry

[Rick 427 Cobra]

The SW page is not correct in content or placement. The 2 5/8 gauges were oil and water temp, oil and FUEL pressure and an AMP meter
Fuel pressure is of no value, but a fuel gauge is critical for street. A volt gauge is safer than an AMP gauge and more useful. These units were all mechanical meaning they had long one piece capillary tubes. A pain to install and remove.
A better solution is the stuff from Kirkham. Right size and 270' sweep, but all modern electrics.
http://www.thomaskirkham.com/289gauges.html

[Fullchat289]

Pegasus has the Jones tach.

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/adv...ryID=VINTGAUGE

Nisonger has an electronic reproduction of the 5" smiths tach too with bezels in either black or chrome.

http://www.nisonger.com/whats-new.htm

- Allen.

[jeffy]

Hi-

I spent a ton of time researching competition car dash layouts and gauge availability about a year ago. My conclusion was that if you want the authentic and correct gauges, you should source them used or new-old-stock off of eBay. The current offerings from Stewart-Warner are not accurate copies, particularly the speedo and the fuel pressure gauge. As already noted by Allen immediately above, the Jones 4" tach (which I put in my car but never saw in an original) can be ordered from Pegasus, but remember that it is a mechanical drive tach, which means you will also need to source a tach drive distributor, not the easiest thing to do; I got mine from Mallory, not cheap.

For the 16 factory FIA/USRRC competition cars built in 1964 and 1965 with "cutback doors", there were at least three different dash layouts.

The first five or so cars had what has come to be called the "FIA dash". It looked like this (from CSX 2345). This car appears to have a Smiths tach, which you'll need to source used if you are a stickler as the reproduction isn't quite the same, although it is pretty close. Some of these cars had the Sun tach, which is now available in an accurate reproduction:





Another batch of cars had a slightly different layout, which some call the "USRRC dash". Below is CSX 2431, also with a Smiths tach. Both this and the "FIA dash" had the same line-up of five 2 5/8" S-W gauges, just in a different placement.





The last of the FIA/USRRC style cars produced had the dash shown below, which I copied in my car. It has the advantage of the speedo where you can see it, and a glove box (where we placed a fuel level gauge). As you can see, the small gauges are all S-W with four 2 5/8" in diameter and one 2 1/16" (the ammeter):

From CSX 2557 with a Smiths tach:



From CSX 2558 with a S-W tach (this tach is also available as a reproduction):





This dash below is from a customer ordered car, CSX 2514, and is a slightly modified "street" dash. The small gauge cluster is made up of five 2 1/16" gauges and a 2 5/8" fuel pressure gauge, which replaced the clock. All were S-W guages:





Earlier competition cars used mostly Smiths gauges with a Sun tach, a S-W ammeter and a S-W fuel pressure gauge. Below is the dash of CSX 2129, which was one the 1963 "Sebring" race cars (the 1963 "LeMans replica" Cobras had a similar dash). There are four smaller Smiths gauges that are 2 1/16" in diameter, a S-W ammeter gauge that is 2 1/16" in diameter, and a S-W fuel pressure gauge of 2 5/8", the same as in all the other dashes pictured in this post:




BTW, there is a vintage Smiths tach on eBay, but it is expensive and not quite the same as what was used in the Cobras:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SMITH...Q5fAccessories


Hope this helps!

[jmimac351]

Not sure if this is helpful but here are a few I was able to source for my build.

[jeffy]

BTW, you might have seen this dash from a car that has an original FIA car chassis number, CSX 2259. As you can see, it has a 4" Jones tach and the current S-W fuel pressure gauge (1 to 15 psi, the correct gauge is 1 to 10, as shown in jmimac351's post directly above). But this car is a total recreation of a wrecked car. So don't consider this an authentic layout.

[B.M.B.C]

Great infomation guys. Thanks

[jmimac351]

Originally Posted by B.M.B.C

Great infomation guys. Thanks

If you want a SW 10# fuel pressure gauge I think I know who has one for sale. I found mine by searching Google; turned up a for sale ad on this forum from Jim Cowles that was over a year old. Took a chance that he may still have it and he did.

You'll have to look under some rocks but they are out there.

[jeffy]

Originally Posted by jmimac351

You'll have to look under some rocks but they are out there.

Agreed. I found two NOS fuel pressure gauges just from watching eBay. Gonna hang onto the second one just in case.

The NOS S-W speedometer was the hardest to find for me; I just got lucky it turned up on eBay when I was looking.

[jeffy]

BTW, another reason I chose the dash I did is that it is covered in leather, whereas the "FIA" and "USRRC" dashes are painted aluminum. In New York state, even a kit car needs to have a "padded" dash to get registered, so I'm hopeful mine will be good enough to pass.

[mr bruce]

http://www.roadsters.com/sw/#intro

[Ron Scarboro]

So when the FIA cars rolled off new for that first time at LeMans what tachometers would have been in the cars?

5" Smiths?
3 3/8" Sun?
3 3/8" Stewart Warner?

Something else?

[PDUB]

CSX2459 had a Sun tach... as well as the smaller 2-1/16 street gauge cluster described by jeffy in post #7 and with the clock replaced by the 2-5/8 10# fuel pressure gauge noted by jmimac in post #8 that followed jeffy. It also had the glovebox, though it appears to have a vinyl covered dash rather than painted aluminum.

jmimac, I'd like one of the 10# fuel pressure gauges for my 2459 tribute car... PM me the details if still available.

Thanks!

[Ron Scarboro]

Originally Posted by jeffy

For the cars with this dash layout what would have been the original tach?

Today -
2345 has this Smith's Tach but it isn't the 5" tach that Nisonger sells
2323 has a Sun Tach
2259 has a modified layout with a Jones tach (know that isn't right)

It just seems strange to have the same SW gauges everywhere except the tach where there is a hodgepodge of Smiths, Sun and whatever else. My assumption would be that they all had a common tach then they were replaced as they failed by whatever was in the "parts bin".

Thanks,

Ron

[LightNFast]

Originally Posted by Ron Scarboro

So when the FIA cars rolled off new for that first time at LeMans what tachometers would have been in the cars?

5" Smiths?
3 3/8" Sun?
3 3/8" Stewart Warner?

Something else?

Hi Ron,

The1964 World Championship consisted of 20 events (rounds). The FIA Cobras didn't run Le Mans and I'm pretty sure that was intentional. The cars were introduced in the following order:

1. Daytona 2259, 226O
2. Sebring 2259, 226O, 2301
3. Targa Florio 2301, 2323, 2345, 226O
4. Monza
5. Spa-Francorchamps 2301, 2323, 2345
6. Consuma
7. Nürburgring 2301, 2323, 2345
8. Rossfeld
9. Le Mans
10. Reims
11. Hill Climb - Freiburg 2301, 226O, 2345
12. Pergusa
13. Goodwood
14. Hill Climb - Sierra Montagna 2301, 226O, 2345
15. Nürburgring
16. Monza
17. Tour de France
18. Bridgehampton
19. Bridgehampton
20. Montlhéry

White team stripe - CSX 2259 (Destroyed at Sebring)
Yellow team stripe - CSX 226O
Maroon team stripe - CSX 2301
Red team stripe - CSX 2323
White team stripe - CSX 2345

As far as the tach question... I really don't know for sure but my guess is they all started with Stewart Warner. But I've seen photos of the Sunpro in 2323, 226O and 2259.

I'm thinking of putting the Sunpro in mine.... How about you?

.

[Ron Scarboro]

I'm thinking Sunpro as well as it'd be a pretty easy swap if I stay with the current layout. I love the look of the Smith's tach, but a 5" tach will not fit in my car.

Rick has a 5" Smiths tach and a blank dash on order, so I may go USRRC layout and an authentic painted look instead of the covering.

2345 has a Smith's tach, but it appears to be 3 3/8".

I did find a 10psi Fuel Pressure gauge that I really need to have restored (yellowed and dirty but functional). The speedometer is likely to be VERY elusive. I wonder if anyone screen prints them?

Best,

Ron

PS: Are you on the road with yours?

[LightNFast]

Hi Ron,

I get the impression you’re not thrilled with the FIA dash layout. Perhaps you miss not being able to read the speedo? Joking aside I think your dash project sounds sharp – keep us posted.

Perhaps these guys could help you out.

About Palo Alto Speedometer


Yes, she’s on the road… thanks for asking.

Regards,