Shift Lever Offset

Steve Cassani · #1 (**permalink**) 03-09-2012, 04:07 PM

Most of the replica and all of the original small-block cars, including the race cars, have the shift lever well left of the car centerline. Why is this? Was the original Borg-Warner gearbox configured so as to require the off-set?

I'm not sure the engine in the 260 and 289 cars was installed slighly right of the cars centerline, suggesting an inline engine location would put the gear lever still further to the left or closer to the driver, perhaps uncomfortably close. Do the engine and lever off-sets together compensate for the linkage and lever connection being on the left side of the transmission, rather than on center?

I'm asking because the gearbox I have specified in the build is a T5. This transmission lends itself to a lever location at the center of the transmission tunnel. What mechanical advantage would I realize by modifying the T5linkage to locate the gear lever as in the original cars?

DougD · #2 (**permalink**) 03-09-2012, 05:56 PM

Steve
The linkage mounts along the left side of the transmission, so the shifter is naturally offset to the left as it, too is located left of the tranny case.
DougD

Dwight · #3 (**permalink**) 03-09-2012, 07:34 PM

The T-5 shifter is located in the top center of the trannie. No out side linkage like the old top loaders.

Dwight

LMH · #4 (**permalink**) 03-09-2012, 11:01 PM

There are offset shifters for Tremec transmissions. They are used when TKO's are installed in early cars that originally had side mount shifters. Not sure if there is such a thing for T5. Call Forte or Gordon Levy and ask. They'd probably know.
Larry

LightNFast · #5 (**permalink**) 03-10-2012, 07:06 AM

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Steve Cassani · #6 (**permalink**) 03-10-2012, 08:14 AM

Thanks, guys!

I've decided to forego mimicking the offset since the T-5 is not configured so as to require it. The builder is dedicated to conforming a project as near to the original as possible; I am interested in a simple approach to building my car to reward purposeful driving. There will be tension but, in the end, I sign the check.

LightNFast · #7 (**permalink**) 03-10-2012, 09:17 AM

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Steve Cassani · #8 (**permalink**) 03-10-2012, 03:15 PM

The subject is up for discussion. An aspect of the build I have not shared has the car using a narrowed 427 chassis with the coil spring suspension (Kirkham hybrid). This takes the car well outside the provenance a faithful reproduction should capture. Also, the support post for the roll bar will angle backwards, another obvious departure from the forward-leaning bar that is characteristic of the originals. With these departures already in place, having the shift lever at the center of the transmission tunnel is to my eye an 'error' an appreciative owner might notice while shaking his head over what could have been a 'much better' car. The guages are there too and they are Kirkham, not Stewart Warner.

Thanks for encouraging me. The balance between the car I want to own and a car others will admire for the history it captures is hard to achieve, especially as in this case the weighing is to be done without benefit of a scale or an accepted unit of measure. Your counsel is well directed and I'm sure, should we have the opportunity to talk together over the finished car, you'll see aspects to admire. For one, I'm within a gnat's tail feather of matching the Light Maroon Metallic (ICI P151-R840) AC made available to its customers following the war and continuing until the early sixties. The owner of an original tipped me a direction for research during conversation at Road America.

This is all fun stuff.

LightNFast · #9 (**permalink**) 03-10-2012, 05:05 PM

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Rick Parker · #10 (**permalink**) 03-10-2012, 08:08 PM

Steve: Have you considered a Richmond 5 speed?

Steve Cassani · #11 (**permalink**) 03-10-2012, 09:32 PM

I haven't, Rick. Levy Racing offers a T-5 with the intermediate ratios my calculations (tire diameter-25", final drive ratio-3.31) show will have the gear spacing and performance I'm looking for: 1st: 2.95, 2nd: 1.85, 3rd: 1.31, 4th: 1.00, 5th: 0.80.

LightNFast mentions a shifter location 'much further back' if I elect to use the T-5. This is a consequence I had not considered.

My builder usually works with a Tremec. Part of the sour experience I came to know owning an SPF resulted from the Tremec 3550 having a balky second gear synchro, along with an uncomfortably wide drop from first to second. The SPF had a well-tuned 351 Windsor. First gear had the car out of breath before I reached 40; the first to second shift was most comfortable at 25 mph and then the drop into second nearly lugged the engine. The drop may have seemed worse than it had to be, given the reluctant synchros.

My reluctance to go again with a Tremec may be a case of 'once bitten...' If so, I should acknowledge the problem likely stemmed from a hasty or weakly tested build-the condition I knew is not systemic to Tremec transmissions and there were many other problems with the car, all of which could have been rectified in South Africa, by the SPF dealer or the final builder. Sometimes lemonade is not enough to chase a sour taste from your mouth.

I welcome further discussion of the subject. LightNFast has hinted the T-5 has a problem of its own, at least when it is used in a Kirkham slabside. There's time for a frest start and you guys are helpful.

Thanks!

LightNFast · #12 (**permalink**) 03-11-2012, 09:55 AM

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LightNFast · #13 (**permalink**) 03-11-2012, 11:58 AM

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Steve Cassani · #14 (**permalink**) 03-11-2012, 12:34 PM

"A picture is worth a thousand words." Damn right, that's helpful. Thanks!

Rick Parker · #15 (**permalink**) 03-11-2012, 12:45 PM

[url="http://www.richmondgear.com/07pdfs/RG23.pdf"]http://www.richmondgear.com/07pdfs/RG23.pdf[/URL

Steve:
The 289 engine and their smaller (331) derivatives are real happy with a 4 speed. With a fair amount of carburetion and cam timing they rev freely, you'll find the 5th gear (T5OD) useful only on highway trips, otherwise you'll be constantly rowing the shifter like a boat. 3000+ RPM at road speed is no sweat for these short stroke little guys, piston speed is much lower than some of the big inch strokers. Don't try to make it something it isn't.
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LightNFast · #16 (**permalink**) 03-11-2012, 01:04 PM

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Steve Cassani · #17 (**permalink**) 03-11-2012, 02:53 PM

Rick advises me, "Don't try to make it something it isn't."

The photo and this advice are telling. I'll ask my builder to consider going with a rebuilt top-loader or the Tremec he usually uses. This would not be the first time I've thought my way past a problem.

LightNFast · #18 (**permalink**) 03-11-2012, 06:10 PM

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Obsessive · #19 (**permalink**) 05-29-2012, 11:58 PM

Not intending to hijack your thread here. However, I feel compelled to compliment that gorgeous set of pipes. Man, that's one good lookimg set of headers! I'd hate to see how you route the steering shaft through/around them though.

Obsessive · #20 (**permalink**) 05-30-2012, 12:00 AM

Not intending to hijack your thread here. However, I feel compelled to compliment that gorgeous set of pipes. Man, that's one good lookimg set of headers! I'd hate to see how you route the steering shaft through/around them though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Parker

[url="http://www.richmondgear.com/07pdfs/RG23.pdf"]http://www.richmondgear.com/07pdfs/RG23.pdf[/URL

Steve:
The 289 engine and their smaller (331) derivatives are real happy with a 4 speed. With a fair amount of carburetion and cam timing they rev freely, you'll find the 5th gear (T5OD) useful only on highway trips, otherwise you'll be constantly rowing the shifter like a boat. 3000+ RPM at road speed is no sweat for these short stroke little guys, piston speed is much lower than some of the big inch strokers. Don't try to make it something it isn't.
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